Why did China get the Olympics, again?

[Turin39789]

yea and the whole still using slave labor things isnt a big deal either.

This is one of the things that really annoyed me when I used to do Network Admin work(internship) for UPS, their big push to open the chinese market. Because if we start trading with them and giving them the olympics, they will finally be able to shape up. It just doesnt make sense. China's governmental policies need to change BEFORE we give them most favored nation status. They need to maybe just once say that they dont plan on taking back taiwan some day.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: uncJIGGA

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
It pisses me off that we (toronto) lost to them. They should have "shaped-up" first, before getting the olympics.

Don't worry, Canada WILL get the double-whammy of Vancouver in 2010 (Winter) and Toronto in 2012. It has been forseen...

I can't see any country getting a winter and summer back to back, but if you're right that would be sweet

China's governmental policies need to change BEFORE we give them most favored nation status. They need to maybe just once say that they dont plan on taking back taiwan some day.

I wonder if the word election is banned

 

[Turin39789]

election would hint that there is possibly a better form of government, or at least that the people would want somethign different Im pretty sure that is covered by "politically sensitive content"

but hey thats just me thinking

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: uncJIGGA

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
It pisses me off that we (toronto) lost to them. They should have "shaped-up" first, before getting the olympics.

Don't worry, Canada WILL get the double-whammy of Vancouver in 2010 (Winter) and Toronto in 2012. It has been forseen...

Actually, if Vancouver gets winter Olympics in 2010, then the chance of Toronto getting the summer Olympics in 2012 is impossible.

 

[NickelTitanium]

The answer is that the world deals in money. China has beaucoup opportunities that everyone wants. Greed my friends, greed

 

[ElFenix]

back when china bought the games last summer jim rome started going off on that track meet, saying that china would have to do various things like get their slaves... errrt, citizens, to build a stadium. they'd have to re-tread all their tanks, and they'd have to crack down on what little will power remained in their slaves... errrt people. all for a track meet.

 

[McPhreak]

Although I'm all for democracy, I believe the most effective form of government for China for the present moment is communism. It's such a large country, there's no way in hell it could survive as a democracy right now. The communication and transportation network just isn't there to support it. Take a trip there (I did), go visit the backroads, and you'll know what I mean. Although communism isn't the most ideal form of government, it is currently the most effective for China.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: McPhreak
Although I'm all for democracy, I believe the most effective form of government for China for the present moment is communism. It's such a large country, there's no way in hell it could survive as a democracy right now. The communication and transportation network just isn't there to support it. Take a trip there (I did), go visit the backroads, and you'll know what I mean. Although communism isn't the most ideal form of government, it is currently the most effective for China.

I'm not sure history has shown that communism is ever the best form of government for anyone. Not only does the populous enjoy few freedoms, but from an economic standpoint and not just a social one if they were given a more democratic capitalistic approach although there may be some initial bumps humans are most efficient when they are free to do as they can (within limits of course) and let the market set the most efficient use of time. That is why the strongest economies now are based upon that. If China wanted to be a super power they'd let the citizens determine its future based upon their own interests, which would eventually mold into an efficient system.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
election would hint that there is possibly a better form of government, or at least that the people would want somethign different Im pretty sure that is covered by "politically sensitive content"

but hey thats just me thinking

you people are ignorant, there are elections in china... the voting is obviously not as inclusive or whatever as it is in other places, but they are not unfamiliar with the term "election".

 

[Dhruv]

I don't have much beef with China's treatment of their own people. For a developing nation, communism is the fastest way to grow, thats for sure. Look at India and its democracy, has it done any good? China is one of the world's fastest growing nations and India is growing fast too, but not as fast. I don't personally approve of it, but thats what many Chinese want i guess. Lets remember, when Bush wanted to strike Iraq, he wanted to get approval from China, cuz it is a strong nation. He didn't care what the Swedes or the Germans thought or what the Japanese thought.

The beef I have that is related to china is from two things:

A) Treatment/oppression/holocaust of the Tibetan people. They are a unique people, with their own culture, beliefs, history, etc, yet the Chinese government are total F'N pricks when it comes to them. They are totally into gaining regional power. In Nepal, there are so many Maoist rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, they have already come in Eastern India as well. The chinese government needs to mind their own g'damn business and stop persecuting the Tibetans, an unarmed, peace loving people.
B) Our (U.S.) hypocrisy when dealing with that nation. On one hand we come 'to the rescue' of Albanians in the Balkans, of Afghans in Afghanistan, and Kurds and Kuwaitis from Iraq, yet when it comes to the Tibetans, they do nothing. They turn a blind eye. Despite the numerous protests all sorts of groups had of China becoming a major member of the WTO, our government supported them and gave them most favored nation trading status.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Turin39789
election would hint that there is possibly a better form of government, or at least that the people would want somethign different Im pretty sure that is covered by "politically sensitive content"

but hey thats just me thinking

you people are ignorant, there are elections in china... the voting is obviously not as inclusive or whatever as it is in other places, but they are not unfamiliar with the term "election".

election was originally the king choosing his ministers.

 

[308nato]

you people are ignorant, there are elections in china... the voting is obviously not as inclusive or whatever as it is in other places, but they are not unfamiliar with the term "election".

If Jimmy Carter isn't there on polling day wearing a big straw hat and denim shirt keeping an eye on things it definitely isn't an election.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Dhruv
I don't have much beef with China's treatment of their own people. For a developing nation, communism is the fastest way to grow, thats for sure. Look at India and its democracy, has it done any good? China is one of the world's fastest growing nations and India is growing fast too, but not as fast. I don't personally approve of it, but thats what many Chinese want i guess. Lets remember, when Bush wanted to strike Iraq, he wanted to get approval from China, cuz it is a strong nation. He didn't care what the Swedes or the Germans thought or what the Japanese thought.

The beef I have that is related to china is from two things:

A) Treatment/oppression/holocaust of the Tibetan people. They are a unique people, with their own culture, beliefs, history, etc, yet the Chinese government are total F'N pricks when it comes to them. They are totally into gaining regional power. In Nepal, there are so many Maoist rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, they have already come in Eastern India as well. The chinese government needs to mind their own g'damn business and stop persecuting the Tibetans, an unarmed, peace loving people.
B) Our (U.S.) hypocrisy when dealing with that nation. On one hand we come 'to the rescue' of Albanians in the Balkans, of Afghans in Afghanistan, and Kurds and Kuwaitis from Iraq, yet when it comes to the Tibetans, they do nothing. They turn a blind eye. Despite the numerous protests all sorts of groups had of China becoming a major member of the WTO, our government supported them and gave them most favored nation trading status.

i don't understand, you don't have much beef with china's treatment of their own people, yet you have a beef with how they treat their own people? you know that there is no such country called "tibet" and that "tibet" is just another name for a province of china.... just like taiwan

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Turin39789
election would hint that there is possibly a better form of government, or at least that the people would want somethign different Im pretty sure that is covered by "politically sensitive content"

but hey thats just me thinking

you people are ignorant, there are elections in china... the voting is obviously not as inclusive or whatever as it is in other places, but they are not unfamiliar with the term "election".

election was originally the king choosing his ministers.

hmm, learn something new every day

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Dhruv
I don't have much beef with China's treatment of their own people. For a developing nation, communism is the fastest way to grow, thats for sure. Look at India and its democracy, has it done any good? China is one of the world's fastest growing nations and India is growing fast too, but not as fast. I don't personally approve of it, but thats what many Chinese want i guess. Lets remember, when Bush wanted to strike Iraq, he wanted to get approval from China, cuz it is a strong nation. He didn't care what the Swedes or the Germans thought or what the Japanese thought.

The beef I have that is related to china is from two things:

A) Treatment/oppression/holocaust of the Tibetan people. They are a unique people, with their own culture, beliefs, history, etc, yet the Chinese government are total F'N pricks when it comes to them. They are totally into gaining regional power. In Nepal, there are so many Maoist rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, they have already come in Eastern India as well. The chinese government needs to mind their own g'damn business and stop persecuting the Tibetans, an unarmed, peace loving people.
B) Our (U.S.) hypocrisy when dealing with that nation. On one hand we come 'to the rescue' of Albanians in the Balkans, of Afghans in Afghanistan, and Kurds and Kuwaitis from Iraq, yet when it comes to the Tibetans, they do nothing. They turn a blind eye. Despite the numerous protests all sorts of groups had of China becoming a major member of the WTO, our government supported them and gave them most favored nation trading status.

i don't understand, you don't have much beef with china's treatment of their own people, yet you have a beef with how they treat their own people? you know that there is no such country called "tibet" and that "tibet" is just another name for a province of china.... just like taiwan

you do know most younger generation in taiwan consider themself as taiwanese (not chinese) and look at the mainland people as an inferior, poor and stupid race?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Dhruv
I don't have much beef with China's treatment of their own people. For a developing nation, communism is the fastest way to grow, thats for sure. Look at India and its democracy, has it done any good? China is one of the world's fastest growing nations and India is growing fast too, but not as fast. I don't personally approve of it, but thats what many Chinese want i guess. Lets remember, when Bush wanted to strike Iraq, he wanted to get approval from China, cuz it is a strong nation. He didn't care what the Swedes or the Germans thought or what the Japanese thought.

The beef I have that is related to china is from two things:

A) Treatment/oppression/holocaust of the Tibetan people. They are a unique people, with their own culture, beliefs, history, etc, yet the Chinese government are total F'N pricks when it comes to them. They are totally into gaining regional power. In Nepal, there are so many Maoist rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, they have already come in Eastern India as well. The chinese government needs to mind their own g'damn business and stop persecuting the Tibetans, an unarmed, peace loving people.
B) Our (U.S.) hypocrisy when dealing with that nation. On one hand we come 'to the rescue' of Albanians in the Balkans, of Afghans in Afghanistan, and Kurds and Kuwaitis from Iraq, yet when it comes to the Tibetans, they do nothing. They turn a blind eye. Despite the numerous protests all sorts of groups had of China becoming a major member of the WTO, our government supported them and gave them most favored nation trading status.

i don't understand, you don't have much beef with china's treatment of their own people, yet you have a beef with how they treat their own people? you know that there is no such country called "tibet" and that "tibet" is just another name for a province of china.... just like taiwan

you do know most younger generation in taiwan consider themself as taiwanese (not chinese) and look at the mainland people as an inferior, poor and stupid race?

yea, it makes me sad to see such... oh... what's the word...

have you ever talked to a dumbass who's complaining about how dumb other people are? makes you smile, doesn't it?

btw, i don't think it's just younger generation... in my experience most people there have disdain for the mainland and distance themselves by calling themselves taiwanese.

 

[HamSupLo]

McPhreak said it right...an authoritarian government is the best for China right now. Democracy will not work in present China. Introducing democracy to a country of 1.2 billion people will result into civil war and chaos. There is no one size fits all for China because it's a country that's fragmented by ethnic and regional differences. It is not a homogenous country that people think it is.

I see too many people have been brainwashed by anti-chinese propaganda. Infantcide does happen, but it's mainly confined to the rural areas out in Western China where old customs would persist. It's something that happened in the PAST, in the rural backwaters of China. Belief that waves of Chinese parents are killing their infant daughters is just complete and utter B.S.

And who are we to criticize China for the execution of prisoners? these are convicted criminals committing henious crimes. Same goes here in America. Don't you guys believe in "An eye for an eye?" Don't tell me David WEsterfield doesn't deserve the death penalty for killing a little girl. At least they don't drag the appeals process through the court system for years creating additional anguish for the victims and their families.

Here in the U.S., the poor and especially if you're black are more likely to get sentenced to death. We even put innocent people on deathrow. Again, who are we to criticize China? And also, their trials are rushed? Been watching too much "Red Corner" with Richard Gere? ahhaah. The execution is carried out not at the end of criminal proceedings, but after it's been determined by the court that the defendant's appeal is denied. It's at the conclusion of the appeals process. Same goes here in the U.S.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but it looks like many of you are misinformed and hold some sort of grudge against China.

 

[Dhruv]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Dhruv
I don't have much beef with China's treatment of their own people. For a developing nation, communism is the fastest way to grow, thats for sure. Look at India and its democracy, has it done any good? China is one of the world's fastest growing nations and India is growing fast too, but not as fast. I don't personally approve of it, but thats what many Chinese want i guess. Lets remember, when Bush wanted to strike Iraq, he wanted to get approval from China, cuz it is a strong nation. He didn't care what the Swedes or the Germans thought or what the Japanese thought.

The beef I have that is related to china is from two things:

A) Treatment/oppression/holocaust of the Tibetan people. They are a unique people, with their own culture, beliefs, history, etc, yet the Chinese government are total F'N pricks when it comes to them. They are totally into gaining regional power. In Nepal, there are so many Maoist rebels that are trying to overthrow the government, they have already come in Eastern India as well. The chinese government needs to mind their own g'damn business and stop persecuting the Tibetans, an unarmed, peace loving people.
B) Our (U.S.) hypocrisy when dealing with that nation. On one hand we come 'to the rescue' of Albanians in the Balkans, of Afghans in Afghanistan, and Kurds and Kuwaitis from Iraq, yet when it comes to the Tibetans, they do nothing. They turn a blind eye. Despite the numerous protests all sorts of groups had of China becoming a major member of the WTO, our government supported them and gave them most favored nation trading status.

i don't understand, you don't have much beef with china's treatment of their own people, yet you have a beef with how they treat their own people? you know that there is no such country called "tibet" and that "tibet" is just another name for a province of china.... just like taiwan

you do know most younger generation in taiwan consider themself as taiwanese (not chinese) and look at the mainland people as an inferior, poor and stupid race?

He is correct Gopunk. I have spoken with Taiwanese people. They tell me they have a different language even. She says she doesn't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, but Taiwanese. She made that VERY clear to me. And those are Taiwanese, people that are much similar to mainland Chinese than Tibetans ever were.

Tibetans ARE NOT CHINESE. Province, by whose standards? Certainly not by the Tibetans. They are imperialists. Thats like saying that the people of Hong Kong were British prior to 97. Clearly, they were not. Tibetans are VERY different from mainland Chinese, and the Chinese government is an oppressive POS when it comes to the treatment of ethnic minorities in that country, esp. Tibetans, Falun Gong practicioners, Muslims, etc. etc.

 

[LH]

2012 will be San Fran or New York. With Salt Lake raking in over $100million in profits, the IOC wont skip over the next chance for US to have an olympics.

 

[gopunk]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but it looks like many of you are misinformed and hold some sort of grudge against China.

more like they've been hit by the hippie falun gong / free tibet protestors... most people just hear some whatever from these nutjobs and think they know everything about the situation in china... they're positive it's a sh!thole, blah blah blah. i had a friend who truly believed that there was sewage running through streets of beijing, because that's just how dirty it is there. wtf is wrong with people.

 

[rgwalt]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Why? Because they are the world's best executioners. All other countries pale in comparison to China in its ability to murder its own citizens!! horay! they have 1/6 of the world's population but do more than the other 5 billion in the world combined.

Personally I likethe picture of that stadium. I always love to have an hour or two in my day in which I can watch people getting bullets in the back of their heads. One day I hope to have a family member executed in this manner so that I can receive a bill for the bullet.

Fvcking sh*thole of a country.

At least they are killing their own people...

(note the sarcasim)

R

 

[Bluga]

The tide is shifting to Far East.

China will be super power in 30-40 years.

90% of the Fortune 500 companies are investing in China, that's where the future is.

Some people just don't get it do they?

 

[Dhruv]

Originally posted by: jooksing
McPhreak said it right...an authoritarian government is the best for China right now. Democracy will not work in present China. Introducing democracy to a country of 1.2 billion people will result into civil war and chaos. There is no one size fits all for China because it's a country that's fragmented by ethnic and regional differences. It is not a homogenous country that people think it is.

I see too many people have been brainwashed by anti-chinese propaganda. Infantcide does happen, but it's mainly confined to the rural areas out in Western China where old customs would persist. It's something that happened in the PAST, in the rural backwaters of China. Belief that waves of Chinese parents are killing their infant daughters is just complete and utter B.S.

And who are we to criticize China for the execution of prisoners? these are convicted criminals committing henious crimes. Same goes here in America. Don't you guys believe in "An eye for an eye?" Don't tell me David WEsterfield doesn't deserve the death penalty for killing a little girl. At least they don't drag the appeals process through the court system for years creating additional anguish for the victims and their families.

Here in the U.S., the poor and especially if you're black are more likely to get sentenced to death. We even put innocent people on deathrow. Again, who are we to criticize China? And also, their trials are rushed? Been watching too much "Red Corner" with Richard Gere? ahhaah. The execution is carried out not at the end of criminal proceedings, but after it's been determined by the court that the defendant's appeal is denied. It's at the conclusion of the appeals process. Same goes here in the U.S.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but it looks like many of you are misinformed and hold some sort of grudge against China.

You shouldn't be playing devils advocate. It won't get you anywhere in regards this particular situation. How can you say that democracy won't work for 1.2 billion people? India has over 1 billion people and is FAR, FAR FAR more heterogenous than China is. You have all major races that are in that country, all major religions, and about 1000 variations of languages, and about 50 major distinct languages, yet it is not going thru civil war. You have a country with 18% Muslim populations, and riots occur, but definitely far from any civil war you talk of. As i've said myself, communism is the fastest way to develop a nation, but its not the only way to develop a poor nation. The infantcide and all that you talk about does happen quite a bit, even the government plays a role in reproduction in that country.. do you think that is fair? shouldn't the government stay out of it? Communism, can be good, ask a Romani or a Uzbek living in Russia about that, esp. with a diverse nation, but not having it doesn't mean the country will go to shreds...

"these are convicted criminals committing henious crimes" how can we know what the reasons are when the media is controlled by the government. remember you only see what they wish you to see.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: gopunk
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but it looks like many of you are misinformed and hold some sort of grudge against China.

more like they've been hit by the hippie falun gong / free tibet protestors... most people just hear some whatever from these nutjobs and think they know everything about the situation in china... they're positive it's a sh!thole, blah blah blah. i had a friend who truly believed that there was sewage running through streets of beijing, because that's just how dirty it is there. wtf is wrong with people.

Yep, and most of this people that complained probably have never set foot in china, nor have they visited the rural countryside of china to see all the female babies being butchered or being left to drown at the river. Have any of you ever visit the Mississippi delta? You'll be surprised on how miserable the standard of living in some part of this great country.
Jealousy does bring the worst out of people.

 

[Dhruv]

Originally posted by: Bluga
The tide is shifting to Far East.

China will be super power in 30-40 years.

90% of the Fortune 500 companies are investing in China, that's where the future is.

Some people just don't get it do they?

Bluga, what does that have to do with Chinas human rights violations? Because I knock on the country on that aspect doesn't mean I'm not saying it has potential for greatness in the future.

I'm not holding a grudge against China on the whole. or their people. I'm holding a MAJOR grudge against them for their treatment of the Tibetans? I didn't just hear some speech, I know this for a fact, even the Dalai lama has been in exile in India for god knows how long. ATtacking unarmed Buddhists is just pathetic.