Why aren't we doing anything about Syria??

[Zorkorist]

The way I see it the religious thrash left Europe...and Europe got better from it.



And yet, you choose to invoke superstion in your public oaths...says it all...theocracy in disguise.



Yup, new kid on the block..and still needs to learn a lot...fast.



I would call that dishonest.
There are more atheists than gays and jews combined.
Show me politicians that are openly declared atheists?

The sad truth is that unless you kiss the ass of "god"...you are dead in US politics...so much for "written by man" :thumbsdown:

You are forgetting the Bill of Rights.

Every American, has particular rights; the right to be Gay; the right to sit in the front of the bus.

-John

 

[Lonbjerg]

You are forgetting the Bill of Rights.

Every American, has particular rights; the right to be Gay; the right to sit in the front of the bus.

-John

And you are trying to downplay superstion in the US...

 

[Zorkorist]

Nope, you seem to have no idea of the US, so I am trying to educate you.

-John

 

[Freshgeardude]

there is a growing estimation that if syria falls, many "mini" countries will come up in its place.


the country has a very mixed population. It isn't mixed up throughoutthe country though. They are condensed in their own parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#2011_Syrian_Uprising.E2.80.8Ehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria

The population of Syria is 74% Sunni Muslim, with a 13% Shia and Alawite Muslim population, 10% Christian and 3% Druze. Since the 1960s, Alawite military officers have tended to dominate the country's politics. Some 90% of the population is Muslim, which includes Arabs, Kurds, Circassians, and others, while some 10% are Christians, which includes Arabs, Assyrians/Syriacs, and Armenians. Ethnic minorities include Kurdish, Assyrian/Syriac, Armenian, Turkmen, and Circassian populations.[6]

 

[Zorkorist]

Might there finally be a Palestinian Country?

-John

 

[Freshgeardude]

Might there finally be a Palestinian Country?

-John

The Israelis in the Golan. It's their fault!







( Golan is filled with Druze)

 

[Lonbjerg]

Nope, you seem to have no idea of the US, so I am trying to educate you.

-John

I seem to have an better idea than you seem to have:

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm

That is a distrubing sign of something gone very wrong...with superstition.

 

[Zorkorist]

That's a very leading Poll. Lon.

You are talking to an American, and I think you have access to hundreds or thousands here.

We're not some big bogey man. We are people just like you.

-John

 

[Lonbjerg]

That's a very leading Poll. Lon.

You are talking to an American, and I think you have access to hundreds or thousands here.

We're not some big bogey man. We are people just like you.

-John

I know...I have been to the US myself.
But i also had some fears (about superstion) confirmed sadly.

Something you seem to refuse to ackknowlegde is taking place in the US...to much superstion?

 

[Zorkorist]

No Superstitions.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

I know...I have been to the US myself.
But i also had some fears (about superstion) confirmed sadly.

Something you seem to refuse to ackknowlegde is taking place in the US...to much superstion?

There has always been Religion in the US, Lon, but I have seen no change there.

-John

 

[Lonbjerg]

No Superstitions.

-John

If you are claiming no superstition in the US we are done.
To obvious a lie for me to ignore.

There has always been Religion in the US, Lon, but I have seen no change there.

-John

Nice fallacy...Argumentum Ad Aantiquitatem...we are done.

 

[Zorkorist]

If you are claiming no superstition in the US we are done.
To obvious a lie for me to ignore.



Nice fallacy...Argumentum Ad Aantiquitatem...we are done.

Fin?

Fine.

-John

 

[Red Dawn]

Syria would be to costly, especially in terms of American lives plus it's closely allied with Iran and our involvement there could spin the whole region out of control.

 

[ProfJohn]

The religious in the Us would do the same if they had the pwoer to do so.
I still look at (Un)intelligent Design, killing of arbortion doctors and the use of the word "god" in public office to be signs that the US is haunted by superstion in it's politics.

And religion is the guding line for the US policy towards Isreal...something that has done more hram than good.

Don't think islam is more violent than other religions...that would be an own goal.

And I see Denmark as a country where people wear silver skates and rely on windmills, but we could both be wrong.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of an answer to our OP on why we are involved in Libya and not Syria, the answer is to be found in two words, namely the "Arab League."

The Arab League asked for help in keeping Libya from going into a bigger civil than it was already in. And in answer Nato intervened, as the USA helps out as a only part of a coalition. No such Arab League requests were made in terms of Tunisia or Egypt although the respective governments were toppled without much violence.

Assad in Syria may be in big trouble, but the Arab League has not yet asked for help and that is what matters. Meanwhile Turkey puts diplomatic pressure to control Assad, and its a question in my mind on if Assad can survive after using violence against his own people. If I had my druthers Assad would go, but its the Arab League that will have to make the request to legitimize foreign countries using force.

 

[Freshgeardude]

In terms of an answer to our OP on why we are involved in Libya and not Syria, the answer is to be found in two words, namely the "Arab League."

The Arab League asked for help in keeping Libya from going into a bigger civil than it was already in. And in answer Nato intervened, as the USA helps out as a only part of a coalition. No such Arab League requests were made in terms of Tunisia or Egypt although the respective governments were toppled without much violence.

Assad in Syria may be in big trouble, but the Arab League has not yet asked for help and that is what matters. Meanwhile Turkey puts diplomatic pressure to control Assad, and its a question in my mind on if Assad can survive after using violence against his own people. If I had my druthers Assad would go, but its the Arab League that will have to make the request to legitimize foreign countries using force.

ehh, you have a point there, but I think we would be going into libya with or without arab league support.

yes, their support helped quell some of the arab backlash that would have occured, but we went in because France, one of our closest allies was going to go in with or without NATO help because they get somewhere close to 90% of their oil from libya

 

[Tom]

Libya is pretty easy. Syria would be very difficult. It's by far the most significant country in the Arab-Israeli conflict; any Arab country that opposes Israel would be against our intervention there.

I feel for the Syrian people, the protestors there are among the bravest in world history and we should all recognize that.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The facts are simple, really:

1. After the fiasco in Egypt - how Mubarak was prosecuted and possibly going to get his head chopped off - no Arab leader will risk stepping down peacefully. They will fight to the last bullet, unless offered pardon in the West with all their stolen property (NOT going to happen, being that everyone wants to by chummy with the powers to be). Gaddafi, Asad the the Yemenite leadership are an example of this.
This has happened, in a large part, as a result of Obama throwing Mubarak to the dogs. No one trusts US word anymore.

2. No one has the right to militarily intervene in domestic conflicts like that. If they want, let them have their own revolution. Give them arms, talk to them, give them money, but don't move one soldier near their country. Reason is, you'll end up being blamed for propping this in the first place and be an excuse for even greater oppression ("It's an American-Zionist scam, I tell you!").

3. Furthermore, the demographics of these countries are pretty complex with tribes and factions that have opposed interests. Whom will you go with? It'll turn to a bloody civil war no matter what.

4. As a side note, the only reason Egypt is peaceful now is that... Nothing really happened. The same guys just took over from Mubarak, they are all military elites. Basically it was a peaceful revolution sponsored by Western idiocy. Gave up Mubarak to get few generals and a much vaguer policy on Iran and Hamas. And I stand alone, watching the idiot liberals cheering the "Arab Spring" and laughing to myself. If only they knew things aren't that simple in the Arab world; You don't change hundreds of years of ignorance, oppression and zealot theology for democracy overnight, fools.

5. Israel has no interest seeing Asad leaving post in Syria. I'm sure Israel asked very nicely that no one takes any action. It will only tie more military resources that should really be spent on Iran, and might ignite another conflict on its northern borders. "Better the devil you know" is the key paradigm here; throw Asad out and you won't know what you'll get, but you can sure as hell bet on Iranian meddling that might bring up an even worse regime.

6. Meanwhile Asad is sending Syrians to the Israeli border to heat up things and take the world's eyes off his oppression but no one is buying that (outside of the UN of course).

As the protesters become aggressive, so do the rulers. This will not end soon and will not end in Syria. Let them win it for themselves. We have still yet to see even one positive thing out of this ridiculous "Arab Spring". Unnecessary bloodshed to replace one violent faction with another, that's all it is.

 

[Lemon law]

As Sammy says, "We have still yet to see even one positive thing out of this ridiculous "Arab Spring". "

But that all depends on who we is?

As for me I have cause for more optimism, as new younger educated Arab leaders see their former dictators as oppressors and thieves who delimit their economies and futures.

But I can understand the Sammy pessimism, the Arab Spring, for Israel its been an unmitigated disaster. And for a change, Israel gets relegated back to the second place back burner boogie man, as building a better economy for their country takes a higher priority. As in a single year, Israel loses semi reliable friends in Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey.

As all the Netanyuhu kings horses and men, can't put Humpty Dumpty together again.

 

[Freshgeardude]

6. Meanwhile Asad is sending Syrians to the Israeli border to heat up things and take the world's eyes off his oppression but no one is buying that (outside of the UN of course).

Only the UN would complain about live ammo being used against Molotov cocktails being thrown on mines -__-

 

[SamurAchzar]

As Sammy says, "We have still yet to see even one positive thing out of this ridiculous "Arab Spring". "

But that all depends on who we is?

For me, "we" is people on the West. For you Jihadists it might be different; you sure as hell benefit from the anarchism and bloodshed. I mean, Palestinians and their supporters never cared too much about Arab rulers.

As for me I have cause for more optimism, as new younger educated Arab leaders see their former dictators as oppressors and thieves who delimit their economies and futures.

Younger educated Muslims were the ones who pulled off 9/11. In the Muslim world, radicalism and education are not mutually exclusive.

But I can understand the Sammy pessimism, the Arab Spring, for Israel its been an unmitigated disaster. And for a change, Israel gets relegated back to the second place back burner boogie man, as building a better economy for their country takes a higher priority. As in a single year, Israel loses semi reliable friends in Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey.

Israel, like any other country, has interest in seeing stable neighbors, for better or worse. Right now, there has been nothing but destabilization. And, as happened in Iraq, through the cracks and uncertainty enter the Iranians.

Short term, this is excellent to Israel - namely some other thing for the world to obsess with other than the Palestinian. Long term, this is very bad as the one saving grace of the shithole that is the Middle East was its political stability. Not to mention the peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt were essentially signed with dictators and if the rulers change there's no guarantee they will be upheld.

It's pretty difficult committing to a peace agreement when you don't know if the person you're signing with will be on the noose tomorrow.

Only the UN would complain about live ammo being used against foreign nationals of an enemy state trying to invade your country

FTFY

 

[fskimospy]

Libya was basically alone, had no significant allies. Syria has close ties with Iran, and I doubt we really feel like antagonizing Iran right now. (in that way)

 

[Lemon law]

Sammy you live in the past, as most young educated Arabs see the foolishness of violence. But as Arab economies grow, their growing trade ties are likely to further isolate Israel.

As your Bozo Netanyuhu does nothing but repulse the entire world, the time is rapidly approaching when even AIPAC can't prevent the US from vetoing a Palestinian State.

Even if a US veto can prevent a Palestinian State in 2011, one thing is certain, the next country to broker a Israeli Palestinian State solution will not be the US. Not very smart on Netanyuhu's part, but the new brokers demands will likely be an Israeli settlement freeze. Meanwhile Obama tries to avoid US embarrassment come 9/2011, but it may be long past Obama's powers to prevent it. Because Bozo Netanyuhu simply painted Israel and Obama into a corner.

But we will see we will see, lots of moves remaining between now and 9/2011.

But wait, this thread was supposed to be about Syria and Assad, and at the end of the day, it may be more likely that Turkey and Iran will be the ones with most Syrian diplomatic options.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Eh? Who gives a fuck about the Palestinian state? As you said yourself, I thought this is about Syria. Can't you keep your Pali friends out of a single ME discussion?

Sammy you live in the past, as most young educated Arabs see the foolishness of violence. But as Arab economies grow, their growing trade ties are likely to further isolate Israel.

Frankly, I have no idea what you are talking about there. This turmoil will do nothing good for Arab economies - try convincing foreign investors to join in when citizens are shot on the streets and no one knows who or what will control the state few months from now. If anything Arab countries are in for quite a economic regression from their miserable posts right now. All the while Israeli economy just gets stronger with massive growth rate and money from all over the world flowing in to flee the recession.

Apparently your parallel universe is not very parallel at all. More like a perpendicular universe.