Why are users so upset about the Mass Effect 3 ending? (Spoilers)

[sigurros81]

Also, I think the whole writer at bioware saying she's better than everyone else because we all wish we had female reproductive organs...well, that ALSO kinda alienated people I think. If I did something at my work to draw negative attention to me (in direct context of my workplace) I'd be SEVERELY reprimanded, if not fired. But Bioware, no- they just come out and say how much they support her.

Hmm, a there's no such thing as a good female writer, it just so happens that we have famous female writers because the male counterparts feel bad.

 

[Arg Clin]

I think ME3 is a great game. Did I get everything I wished for? no - not all the companions from ME1 and 2 goet equal airtime in ME3. But I respect the choices made.

It is really sad that the ending was so horrible that it ruined the whole series.

I can think of 4 reasons why fans might be upset:

Spoiler

1) Bioware gave the unmistakenly impresion before the realease that there would be multiple endings that would depend on the choices made thoughout the series. They did not deliver on that promise. In reality nothing mattered beyond the last choice.

2) The ending made no sense of all and seemed like an abundance of plotholes. 'The indoctrination theory' could explain it I guess, which just really opens more questions than it answers though. For a warming up to ME4 it would have been great - but it's not suitable as conclusion to an epic series, as it offers no conclusion at all.

3) The ending was much too sad and depressing. Shepard dies no matter what an the galaxy gets torn apart. Everything Shepard fought for- whether it was his own future or/and the future of the galaxy - ultimately fails. I'm not objecting that this is a possible outcome - but the only outcome? I would have much liked to see a variety of possible endings ranging from the depressing, everything-blows-up one we got over to full- happy-kittens-&-butterflies. Considering how much effort was put into the game it would seem like a small effort to take the last step and manifest this as the greatest sci-fi RPG of all times. Now its just sad and makes you wanna forget ME.

4) Lack of epilogue. Again I keep asking myself - after so much effort, why did BW not take that one last step. They are standing two feet from the finishline and then collapses.. why? Remeber this is a 120-150 hour gaming experience combined. Some of the characters have been there from day one - obviously the players would like to know what happened to them in the end. It seems like it would not be a big thing to write up.

Maybe it's all saved for the DLC's - I can live with that really, and I won't even complain about shelling out another $ 10 for it if that's what it comes down to. ME3 is a great game and I would have paid the extra $ 10 anyway up front for the ending the game deserves. Bioware really do need to lay the cards on the table though.

 

[darkewaffle]

It is really sad that the ending was so horrible that it ruined the whole series.

I've never played the games but I think that's an extremely silly notion. An ending is just another piece of the whole experience, and frankly a fairly small one normally.

I didn't think HL2's ending was too good, and from the sounds of it it shares many of the same problems ME3's does. It's arbitrary, doesn't explain much, hinges on 'magic' for lack of a better word, and was clearly taken advantage of for DLC (this I don't have much problem with personally).

But that doesn't prevent it from being one of my favorite games ever and an awesome experience the other 98% of the time. I can't speak for everyone but when I think back to my most memorable games, rarely am I thinking of the ending; much more often it's the journey that took me there.

 

[PowerYoga]

problem is.... they made your choices actually MATTER for quite a few parts of the game.

Spoiler

Mordin/Wrex's death or salvation, Genophage "cure", Quarian/Geth's xenocide or cooperation...

Why couldn't they have just done that with the last part?

Spoiler

Even if you still have the magical child catalyst bullshit, it could've EASILY went towards "well you did so and so, and because of your actions the universe blah blah" and you get the red/blue/green ending depending on what you did. Instead of "whatever, choose one".

So yeah, the end was POORLY thought out.

 

[sigurros81]

I've never played the games but I think that's an extremely silly notion. An ending is just another piece of the whole experience, and frankly a fairly small one normally.

I didn't think HL2's ending was too good, and from the sounds of it it shares many of the same problems ME3's does. It's arbitrary, doesn't explain much, hinges on 'magic' for lack of a better word, and was clearly taken advantage of for DLC (this I don't have much problem with personally).

But that doesn't prevent it from being one of my favorite games ever and an awesome experience the other 98% of the time. I can't speak for everyone but when I think back to my most memorable games, rarely am I thinking of the ending; much more often it's the journey that took me there.

HL2 is a bad example. No it's not a silly notion at all. Think how better HL2 would have been if the ending was on par with how the rest of the game was designed. Also, there was a big outcry from the community as well when HL2 came out, just not as controversial as ME3.

An ending is by no mean a small part to anything, especially if it's part of a game that hinges on narrative that have spanned 100+ hours across 3 games that many gamers have INVESTED in.

 

[Arg Clin]

I've never played the games but I think that's an extremely silly notion. An ending is just another piece of the whole experience, and frankly a fairly small one normally.

Before I finished ME3 I would have said the same thing. Yet it is the undeniable impression I'm left with.

I in turn have not played HL2 so I cannot offer insight as the similarities. All I can say is that it ruined it for me (and aparently quite a lot of people I think). Probably comes down to levels of expectation. Had the remaining part of the ME series not been so extremely well written nobody would have cared about the subpar quality ending.

 

[RampantAndroid]

If those are the links to Amazon offering refunds, then it's Amazon's policy to accept just about anything to be returned within 30 days of purchase. It's got nothing to do with ME3.

Also tinfoil hat.

Did you not click the links? If not, please do before making posts. The image is of a user requesting a refund on a purchase of ME3 from Origin, quoting the Revised Code of Washington (RCW) which contains a law saying that the consumer may REJECT a purchase if the product does not work as advertised. EA honored his refund request, which pretty much means they agreed that Bioware is guilty of false advertising.

Also, I saw this posted somewhere (Hard forums, I think?)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3546/1331594592209.jpg

Apparently, if you criticize Bioware on their forums, they edit your post.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

http://kotaku.com/5895215/bioware-is-working-on-a-modified-mass-effect-3-ending

 

[RampantAndroid]

I think ME3 is a great game. Did I get everything I wished for? no - not all the companions from ME1 and 2 goet equal airtime in ME3. But I respect the choices made.

It is really sad that the ending was so horrible that it ruined the whole series.

I can think of 4 reasons why fans might be upset:

Spoiler

3) The ending was much too sad and depressing. Shepard dies no matter what an the galaxy gets torn apart. Everything Shepard fought for- whether it was his own future or/and the future of the galaxy - ultimately fails. I'm not objecting that this is a possible outcome - but the only outcome? I would have much liked to see a variety of possible endings ranging from the depressing, everything-blows-up one we got over to full- happy-kittens-&-butterflies. Considering how much effort was put into the game it would seem like a small effort to take the last step and manifest this as the greatest sci-fi RPG of all times. Now its just sad and makes you wanna forget ME.

4) Lack of epilogue. Again I keep asking myself - after so much effort, why did BW not take that one last step. They are standing two feet from the finishline and then collapses.. why? Remeber this is a 120-150 hour gaming experience combined. Some of the characters have been there from day one - obviously the players would like to know what happened to them in the end. It seems like it would not be a big thing to write up.

Maybe it's all saved for the DLC's - I can live with that really, and I won't even complain about shelling out another $ 10 for it if that's what it comes down to. ME3 is a great game and I would have paid the extra $ 10 anyway up front for the ending the game deserves. Bioware really do need to lay the cards on the table though.

On point 3:

Spoiler

I agree - knowing that the ending is either mass relays go poof, people become robots, or you become one with the reapers and possibly lead them on a purge in the future...it just ruins everything before it. All that running around the citadel doing quests, saving ships colonies and all that...in the end it doesn't matter. Everything you did has no relevance in the end, because the galaxy just went to hell. It belittles the entire story.

On 4:

Spoiler

What could they have said? "And in the end, everyone was stuck on their planet. Joker banged the robot, tali and garrus died for lack of food, and we're all stuck on our own planets now, unable to get to anyone else without the relays. Earth is overpopulated, and is fighting WW IV. The Krogans nuked their own planet again." - you get the idea.

As for DLC, no, DLC should die. Bioware should release a revised ending FOR FREE to all those people who have suffered through the BS that is ME3. But hey, given the reset of DA3, I think Bioware realizes they are in serious trouble. And even though they realize it, I hope EA shutters the studio.

 

[darkewaffle]

Did you not click the links? If not, please do before making posts. The image is of a user requesting a refund on a purchase of ME3 from Origin, quoting the Revised Code of Washington (RCW) which contains a law saying that the consumer may REJECT a purchase if the product does not work as advertised. EA honored his refund request, which pretty much means they agreed that Bioware is guilty of false advertising.

Also, I saw this posted somewhere (Hard forums, I think?)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3546/1331594592209.jpg

Apparently, if you criticize Bioware on their forums, they edit your post.

Blocked at work, duh.

And I'd be more inclined to say it's cheaper to refund a guy $50 than it is to hire a lawyer to fight the case to keep $50.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Blocked at work, duh.

And I'd be more inclined to say it's cheaper to refund a guy $50 than it is to hire a lawyer to fight the case to keep $50.

Ahh, ok.

As for the lawyer thing, if this was an isolated incident, sure....but it isn't. The Bioware forums are full of people saying they got a refund.

 

[Arg Clin]

On 4:

Spoiler

What could they have said? "And in the end, everyone was stuck on their planet. Joker banged the robot, tali and garrus died for lack of food, and we're all stuck on our own planets now, unable to get to anyone else without the relays. Earth is overpopulated, and is fighting WW IV. The Krogans nuked their own planet again." - you get the idea.

Spoiler

Good point. With the the current ending the epilogue does seem a little pointless. Got a bit ahead of myself I suppose - there should be an epilogue based on an ending that would make an epilogue make sense.

Guess I blew my objectivity here - I'm squarely in the pro happy ending camp - no point in denying it really :biggrin:

As for DLC, no, DLC should die. Bioware should release a revised ending FOR FREE to all those people who have suffered through the BS that is ME3. But hey, given the reset of DA3, I think Bioware realizes they are in serious trouble. And even though they realize it, I hope EA shutters the studio.

I do not support the DLC idea and the business model. In fact I'd rather pay $ 15 more for the full game up front than $ 10 extra for a DLC. But I am also a realist - this is not how it works in the market. Sadly enough. In principle Bioware owe the fans what they promised. No doubt about that. But if real world economics dictates this down to a matter of a brighter ending, but equally poorly written and full of plotholes, I'd prefer just to pay for it. Grudingly naturally

Yeah I'm a sellout :twisted:

 

[darkewaffle]

HL2 is a bad example. No it's not a silly notion at all. Think how better HL2 would have been if the ending was on par with how the rest of the game was designed. Also, there was a big outcry from the community as well when HL2 came out, just not as controversial as ME3.

An ending is by no mean a small part to anything, especially if it's part of a game that hinges on narrative that have spanned 100+ hours across 3 games that many gamers have INVESTED in.

HL2 is a bad example because it created similar reactions and would have also benefited from a more conclusive ending? You may need to explain that one.

And the fact that there was an 'outcry' was essentially my point. In spite of that, and after perspective kicked in, HL2 was and still is widely considered an outstanding game. HL3 is still one of the most desired titles in the industry. HL1 is still beloved. Sounds like a far cry from a "whole series ruined" to me over one inadequate ending.

Again, kind of mirroring my point but saying a different thing, if you've 'invested' a hundred hours into a game and the last few minutes aren't up to snuff, why does it negate everything else? It's a minute fraction of your time, emotion, and interest spent. Is each individual minute of the ending you watch really more important than 20 hours of what you play and do? I get that you want a more complete ending, I just don't see the rationale behind "This part is so much more important than all the other parts put together."

Another example that struck me was Shadow of the Colossus. Weird, sort of fits sort of comes out of nowhere ending with little resolution and kind of ends abruptly iirc. I don't even remember it that clearly aside from the riders and your transformation frankly; on the other hand I can still vividly picture almost every individual Colossus in my head and how you beat them as well as riding through the vast open wilds. Not as story centric, true, but still an outstanding game with a lackluster ending. But that's not what people remember; it certainly didn't make or break the game.

 

[darkewaffle]

Ahh, ok.

As for the lawyer thing, if this was an isolated incident, sure....but it isn't. The Bioware forums are full of people saying they got a refund.

Are the refunds coming directly from EA? That seems unlikely, but hypothetically even if they are, it would have to be an absolutely absurd amount of people to rival the amount of cash necessary to craft a legal defense.

I don't really think they'd have much of a choice really; you can't tell a consumer "No, you're happy with the product" and if they ignore it everyone's just going to get even more pissy. Fact is you can probably return just about anything you're 100% happy with if you just say you aren't and go through the proper channels.

 

[Red Storm]

The ending negated everything you did up to that point and there was no closure. And the stupid magic god/child/thing. Ugh, that was so jarringly bad.

Bioware doesn't owe me anything though. Now that ME is over I can wipe them from minds and never care for any of their future products. They are dead to me.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Are the refunds coming directly from EA? That seems unlikely, but hypothetically even if they are, it would have to be an absolutely absurd amount of people to rival the amount of cash necessary to craft a legal defense.

I don't really think they'd have much of a choice really; you can't tell a consumer "No, you're happy with the product" and if they ignore it everyone's just going to get even more pissy. Fact is you can probably return just about anything you're 100% happy with if you just say you aren't and go through the proper channels.

Again: the photo is of someone having a convo with EA support, and EA support authorizes a refund. Most places say no refund once it is opened. In WA, we have a law that says it you falsely advertise, meaning

Spoiler

you say that the ending is influenced by choices made in ME1 and ME1, when in fact you just choose BLUE, GREEN or RED explosions, regardless of decisions made in the past.

Bioware outright lied about the ending of the game. That is false advertising. In WA, that means you can reject the purchase lawfully.

 

[Gheris]

Again: the photo is of someone having a convo with EA support, and EA support authorizes a refund. Most places say no refund once it is opened. In WA, we have a law that says it you falsely advertise, meaning

Spoiler

you say that the ending is influenced by choices made in ME1 and ME1, when in fact you just choose BLUE, GREEN or RED explosions, regardless of decisions made in the past.

Bioware outright lied about the ending of the game. That is false advertising. In WA, that means you can reject the purchase lawfully.

The only thing I can think of is that they didn't want to alienate new customers by "catering" to those who have played the entire series. I put catering in quotes because I played and used the same save through all 3 games. In the end I was hoping to be rewarded with a different experience for my customer loyalty to the franchise. Instead we got what we got. While I think the game is great, the ending(s) did not do justice to the franchise. It seems that Bioware is somewhat acknowledging the issue at this time, but this is currently the #1 IP of Bioware. Why would a company that cares for it's product go so wrong in the end?

 

[sigurros81]

HL2 is a bad example because it created similar reactions and would have also benefited from a more conclusive ending? You may need to explain that one.

And the fact that there was an 'outcry' was essentially my point. In spite of that, and after perspective kicked in, HL2 was and still is widely considered an outstanding game. HL3 is still one of the most desired titles in the industry. HL1 is still beloved. Sounds like a far cry from a "whole series ruined" to me over one inadequate ending.

Again, kind of mirroring my point but saying a different thing, if you've 'invested' a hundred hours into a game and the last few minutes aren't up to snuff, why does it negate everything else? It's a minute fraction of your time, emotion, and interest spent. Is each individual minute of the ending you watch really more important than 20 hours of what you play and do? I get that you want a more complete ending, I just don't see the rationale behind "This part is so much more important than all the other parts put together."

Another example that struck me was Shadow of the Colossus. Weird, sort of fits sort of comes out of nowhere ending with little resolution and kind of ends abruptly iirc. I don't even remember it that clearly aside from the riders and your transformation frankly; on the other hand I can still vividly picture almost every individual Colossus in my head and how you beat them as well as riding through the vast open wilds. Not as story centric, true, but still an outstanding game with a lackluster ending. But that's not what people remember; it certainly didn't make or break the game.

My point is HL2 is a classic on many levels and because of many reasons, story probably being on the bottom of that totem pole. I don't think I can say the same about the Mass Effects games, gameplay is nothing groundbreaking, if anything, mediocre. The main reason why ME is popular is because of the narrative and rich universe/back stories, and obviously, where the rub is that all of it got ruined by a craptacular ending. I have not played the game but I can definitely see where the angry fans are coming from.

HL2 on the other hand is groundbreaking for its time because it was pretty much the first FPS to be able to bridge story with gameplay and do it well, not to mention level design, graphics, and immersive pacing. And I remember beating HL2 and going "WTF kind of dumbass ending is that", and that's part of the reason why there's a petition for Episode 3 going around.

 

[sigurros81]

Everyone should go play Witcher 2 if they are looking for a game that actually do a proper job at implementing cause and consequences in narrative

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Wow... extorting fans wanting an ending to a trilogy by way of DLC. That's a new low for EA I think.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Wow... extorting fans wanting an ending to a trilogy by way of DLC. That's a new low for EA I think.

Look up broken steel for fallout 3.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The only thing I can think of is that they didn't want to alienate new customers by "catering" to those who have played the entire series. I put catering in quotes because I played and used the same save through all 3 games. In the end I was hoping to be rewarded with a different experience for my customer loyalty to the franchise. Instead we got what we got. While I think the game is great, the ending(s) did not do justice to the franchise. It seems that Bioware is somewhat acknowledging the issue at this time, but this is currently the #1 IP of Bioware. Why would a company that cares for it's product go so wrong in the end?

Just conjecture, but maybe because they are dumping all their resources into TOR? I think they thought they could just coast on the Mass Effect name and their reputation, and got a rude awakening. In addition, I thought the entire story line of ME3 was repetitive and flawed, not just the ending. The second game was about building loyalty with your crew. The third game was basically the same, except building loyalty with different races. And how did the earth survive the reapers all the time Shepard spent out recruiting allies?

But that said, I cant believe people are demanding their money back just because they didnt like the story. I wish I had waited for a game of the year edition or at least for the price to come down. But I made my choice and bought the game: live with it. I only think you should get a refund if the game doesnt run properly on hardware that meets the specs, maybe like Black Ops when it first came out. What next, are people going to start demanding their ticket cost back if the home team loses?

 

[thespyder]

I guess what gets me is that the ending to KoTOR2 was pretty shoddy as well. Yet no one got this bent out of shape over it.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Actually, they did get pretty bent out of shape about it - enough to spawn a project to completely replace the ending. And that game wasn't the ending of a trilogy - we were much less invested in those characters.

 

[Ventanni]

To comment on Deus Ex: Human Revolution (it was brought up once during the thread), I kinda felt it was more of a reflection of human nature rather than actual events related to the story. Nevertheless, I took it for what it was, and I still consider Deus Ex: Human Revolution to be a fantastic game.

Sorry to hear about the poor ending for ME3. I never played the game, but the ME3 commercials were amazing.

The only game I ever thought to have *the* best ending ever was Thief: The Dark Project. Of course, it just tied into Thief 2, but it was amazing. As for a "trilogy ending", that is, one that ends an over-arcing storyline, I can't really say what game has the best ending. They always seem to suck.