Why are Repubs so against Obamacare?

[JEDI]

didn't some repubs vote yes when the bill was originally brought up to a vote?

heck, didn't repub Romney pass a version of obamacare in his state of Mass when he was gov?

 

[Lithium381]

Where have you been the past few years? It's changing the entire medical system to a socialized system that EVERYONE has to participate in or pay a tax, i mean a fine, i mean a tax.

 

[TerryMathews]

didn't some repubs vote yes when the bill was originally brought up to a vote?

heck, didn't repub Romney pass a version of obamacare in his state of Mass when he was gov?

Because it does nothing to fix out-of-control health care costs and in fact makes some of them worse especially for the younger generation.

Obama had redistribution of wealth, now he has redistribution of health in that younger people no longer get a price break on their insurance in order to subsidize the older and less healthy.

Also FYI, not one Republican voted for PPACA. What I believe you are referring to is that the bill originated as H.R. 3590, a tax break for service members. Because the Senate is not allowed to originate revenue-related bills, if they are "originating" an idea like that they have to gut and replace a bill out of the house.

Basically, the House republicans voted for turkey. The senate stuffed a duck and a chicken inside, and the Republicans refused to vote for turduken.

 

[Jadow]

I'm a repub, and I'm not against Obamacare. The status quo was not working with greatly increasing healthcare costs every year. So I was all for shaking up the healthcare landscape.

Obamacare has many issues for sure, but let's see where it is in 5 years.

 

[Moonbeam]

The conservative brain feels entitled to the truth. They believe they know it naturally, without even thinking. it's called truthiness, it feels right to them so it has to be true. The conservative brain attaches importance to 5 or more moral concepts whereas only two are of major concern to Liberals, things like group loyalty, purity, and obedience to authority that make them feel morally superior and thus certain that they are. These lead to the feeling that the other, the non member is impure and disgusting and a traitor that can't be trusted. These brain qualities, therefore make them nasty and vicious people against outsiders that win elections putting liberals in charge of them. He may as well have horns, hooves and a red tail. Without an external enemy to turn all this fear based aggression on, they turn it on their fellow countrymen, becoming the very traitors they fear Obama is. We always become what we fear. It also makes them loathsome disgusting and shameful to, but you can't make them see it because they have truthiness on their side. The challenge for liberals is to find a way to deal with them without also going insane, because we always become what we fear. It can help to remember that conservatives want to be good and can't only because they already think they know what that is. They aren't bad inwardly. They are just dangerously blind because they feel compelled to try to drive down roads in an altered reality that doesn't exist.

When you think about how Dr. Who deals with the Daleks you can sympathize with the problems we face.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Obama is a Democrat. Republicans hate Democrats.
It may bring some benefit to the poor. Republicans hate poor people.
It may raise the living standard for a lot of Americans. Republicans hate America.

Just look at the average posts of the AT right-wing extremist Republicans.

 

[charrison]

Because it is a bad law that does not address causes of why healthcare is expensive. It currently it will upend the system that works for a majority of the population to help the few for where the system does not work.

 

[AdamantC]

BRAINSBRAINSCONSERVATIVESBRAINSMESOSMARTRABBLEROFL

FTFY :thumbsup:

They're against it because the ACA is a giant cluster-fuck that no one understands or has the slightest clue as to what the long term ramifications are going to be. While the old system was very flawed at least it's understandable and proven to work to some degree.

 

[trenchfoot]

My guess:

Following the money trail will answer all of your questions. When the onion gets peeled down to its core, it's the money in the form of profits, losses, taxes, penalties etc. and the intricacies of how it gets redistributed is where all the friction gets created.

For a myriad of reasons, many of those that have the monies don't want to part with any of it to promote the general welfare of the nation. Those that don't have money don't have the power and influence that money in mass quantities brings with it and can only rely on those in positions of power who sympathize with their plight.

And it's not the freedom of choice that's really matters in this particular instance. For many millions of us, who through no cause or fault of their own, are mortally affected by this quandry because they have no other choice except to interminally suffer or cease to exist.

Many folks are fine with this (former) status quo and wish to revert back to that system of health care. Many others are not. Your choice is to pick which side you want to be on and put your money where your concience is.

 

[Matt1970]

Obamacare is supposed to get more people insured. - 10 million kicked off their insurance plans and 80 million more likely next year.

Obamacare is supposed to drop premiums $2500 for the average policy - Average policy is the same or has increased.

Obamacare is supposed to let you keep your doctor. - Nope

It boggles the mind why are people against this.

 

[Moonbeam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
BRAINSBRAINSCONSERVATIVESBRAINSMESOSMARTRABBLEROFL

FTFY

They're against it because the ACA is a giant cluster-fuck that no one understands or has the slightest clue as to what the long term ramifications are going to be. While the old system was very flawed at least it's understandable and proven to work to some degree.

I understand that you are very limited in what you can understand of my posts, they being, as it were, so far over your head, but I wanted to say how enamored I am of things that work to some degree and are understandable. Surely, however, you must realize, that you're capacity for understanding things is so profoundly limited, that there will be little that can pass your test of understandability. Having to crawl along at your level of capacity, would, I am sure, severely crimp our abilities as a nation to adapt to those old things that were very flawed.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Does this mean come January 2014 Moonbeam will finally be able to get the help he so badly needs?

 

[Hacp]

Main reason is because it is a huge government program. It'll keep growing. 60% of our budget is related to Social Security, medicare, safety net, and federal benefits. Another 20% is for military. Huge government programs have an inertia. They always tend to grow. They never go away, even if there is no use for them.

 

[trenchfoot]

Obamacare is supposed to get more people insured. - 10 million kicked off their insurance plans and 80 million more likely next year.

Obamacare is supposed to drop premiums $2500 for the average policy - Average policy is the same or has increased.

Obamacare is supposed to let you keep your doctor. - Nope

It boggles the mind. Why are people against this.

Well, seeing as if you had written off the ACA since the moment it was introduced in Congress, and I'm guessing even before that when it was formerly known as "universal health care", and at present have already pronounced it DOA and insist it won't work without giving it a chance to stabilize, mature and prove itself one way or another, and have refused to acknowledge not a single favorable characteristic the ACA brings with it, I have come to the logical conclusion that your judgement is ever so slighty biased and just a teensy bit premature.

What say you to that?

 

[Matt1970]

Well, seeing as if you had written off the ACA since the moment it was introduced in Congress, and I'm guessing even before that when it was formerly known as "universal health care", and at present have already pronounced it DOA and insist it won't work without giving it a chance to stabilize, mature and prove itself one way or another, and have refused to acknowledge not a single favorable characteristic the ACA brings with it, I have come to the logical conclusion that your judgement is ever so slighty biased and just a teensy bit premature.

What say you to that?

It's not even doing the single most important thing it was designed to do, get more people insured. At what point do you stop someone from punching you in the face when they are telling you that if you give it time these punches will feel good?

 

[TerryMathews]

The conservative brain feels entitled to the truth. They believe they know it naturally, without even thinking. it's called truthiness, it feels right to them so it has to be true. The conservative brain attaches importance to 5 or more moral concepts whereas only two are of major concern to Liberals, things like group loyalty, purity, and obedience to authority that make them feel morally superior and thus certain that they are. These lead to the feeling that the other, the non member is impure and disgusting and a traitor that can't be trusted. These brain qualities, therefore make them nasty and vicious people against outsiders that win elections putting liberals in charge of them. He may as well have horns, hooves and a red tail. Without an external enemy to turn all this fear based aggression on, they turn it on their fellow countrymen, becoming the very traitors they fear Obama is. We always become what we fear. It also makes them loathsome disgusting and shameful to, but you can't make them see it because they have truthiness on their side. The challenge for liberals is to find a way to deal with them without also going insane, because we always become what we fear. It can help to remember that conservatives want to be good and can't only because they already think they know what that is. They aren't bad inwardly. They are just dangerously blind because they feel compelled to try to drive down roads in an altered reality that doesn't exist.

When you think about how Dr. Who deals with the Daleks you can sympathize with the problems we face.

Instead of insulting the intelligence of those you see as your opponents, why not, I don't know, actually answer the OP's question?

If you're just going to post off-topic with a bunch of psychobabble nonsense, why not start your own threads a la McOwen?

 

[rudder]

Obama is a Democrat. Republicans hate Democrats.
It may bring some benefit to the poor. Republicans hate poor people.
It may raise the living standard for a lot of Americans. Republicans hate America.

Just look at the average posts of the AT right-wing extremist Republicans.

Spoken like a true AT poster who has no clue.

I live in a so called "red state" and we have a state run healthcare program for people who cannot afford insurance or who cannot get it due to pre-existing conditions.

I won't even go into all that is wrong with the ACA as it has been stated already in numerous threads. OP just likes starting threads like this so people on the right of the spectrum can be freely called racists. And I know people are entitled to their own opinions but then people like you come along and post such ignorant ideas which add nothing to an intelligent discussion.

 

[kage69]

I'm a repub, and I'm not against Obamacare. The status quo was not working with greatly increasing healthcare costs every year. So I was all for shaking up the healthcare landscape.

Obamacare has many issues for sure, but let's see where it is in 5 years.

This post has made me feel a little better about republicans in general, thank you Jadow.

A person might not know it from the volume and froth coming from the echo chamber these days, but there are still rational people out there in (R) land who aren't buying into the hysteria their brethren have been working overtime to create.

I'm firmly in the camp of "let's wait and see," and if it sucks as much as some say it will, then democracy will fling that tool from the toolbox and consider another. Those who would prefer to just lock the toolbox to prevent the normal selection/adoption process need to go find a different work site. They've let dogma and ego override their responsibility to be mindful of the customer's time and money. As a general rule it pains me to see so many who like to frame everything into a business model have that fly right the fuck over their heads.

I get the impression you realize staying entrenched in "this shit" hurts us a number of ways, so on top of you not trying to act like everything was just cake before Obama said "alright, it's been almost 20 years, time to get something rolling here!" I think it's perfectly justifiable for a politician to see the systems of other developed nations and think that we can pull off the same kind of successes.

 

[charrison]

Well, seeing as if you had written off the ACA since the moment it was introduced in Congress, and I'm guessing even before that when it was formerly known as "universal health care", and at present have already pronounced it DOA and insist it won't work without giving it a chance to stabilize, mature and prove itself one way or another, and have refused to acknowledge not a single favorable characteristic the ACA brings with it, I have come to the logical conclusion that your judgement is ever so slighty biased and just a teensy bit premature.

What say you to that?

There are positives in the bills, but there are also huge negatives. It is more than past time to amend the law of the land and make it work better.

 

[TerryMathews]

I propose that the same "benefit" of the PPACA - no longer pricing insurance risk based on age - be applied to the auto insurance industry.

Right now, I'm getting screwed coming and going. Turn about is only fair play, is it not?

I'd love to see 60 million seniors bitching that their car insurance rates went up because they're subsidizing a bunch of teenagers.

 

[Matt1970]

Does this mean come January 2014 Moonbeam will finally be able to get the help he so badly needs?

I sure hope so.

 

[charrison]

I propose that the same "benefit" of the PPACA - no longer pricing insurance risk based on age - be applied to the auto insurance industry.

Right now, I'm getting screwed coming and going. Turn about is only fair play, is it not?

I'd love to see 60 million seniors bitching that their car insurance rates went up because they're subsidizing a bunch of teenagers.

This is on of the things that is broken with ACA. Insurers can not properly price risk. All pre-existing conditions are not the same and should be able to treat them as such. For instance my brother-in-law is one of the uninsurables because of serious past health conditions. My wife has allergies for a pre-existing condition. Are these the same? Not by a long shot, but the law is going to treat them the same.

 

[Matt1970]

I understand that you are very limited in what you can understand of my posts, they being, as it were, so far over your head

No, what's limited is what you can actually post about. You would be lucky to post anything over Forest Gump's head.

 

[sandorski]

For the same reason they oppose anything Obama does. Hell, that's why they called it "Obamacare" in the first place.

 

[blankslate]

Because President Obama proposed the bill (modeled on a conservative think tank proposal) before a Republican was able to on a national level.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/graphics/2010/022310-bill-comparison.aspx

If President Obama never made it an issue perhaps Governor Romney would not have tried to distance himself so much from the Massachusetts version during the 2012 campaign.