why are receiver units usually so bulky?

[zanejohnson]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

first of all, worst subwoofer placement ever. subwoofer belongs in the corner. no if ands or buts about it. corner of the room, usually behind your equipment and mains (fronts)and with the port firing into the corner.


second of all, your receiver sucks. get some real power, or run ultra effecient small speakers.

thats like running a 15" subwoofer with 200 watts rms....

 

[zanejohnson]

also, yes there are class D amps.

however, that wire going from your amp to the speaker is NOT CARRYING A DIGITAL SIGNAL, THAT'S JUST STUPID. or else you'd hear two frequencies, on, or off. rofl.

the amps design is digital, as opposed to mosfet or that other design that went out years ago, i cant even remember the name now.... but saying there is a digital signal running through your speaker wires to your speakers is just plain retarded. there would be no range. a class D amp is digital up until the speaker output, from there on out it's an anolog AC electrical current, the power of the current decided by the music, and the draw on the amplifier from the speakers (ohms, which are completely variable depending on the frequency the driver(s) are reproducing.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Zane, I think you should go back to do whatever it is you do best.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: zanejohnson
i have a nice pioneer elite 7.1 receiver, used for my HTPC setup, the thing is HUGE, wont fit in the slots in my entertainment center even, it has to go on top, i've taken the top off and it has heatsinks on the amplifiers (all seperate class D amps for every channel, rated at 150 watts RMS) the sinks make a TRUE look like a puny stock intel sink.... that's what takes up most of the space in the reciever... but it sounds beautiful in 2 channel, and 5 channel (as i only have a 5.1 speaker setup, i've thought of throwing a couple of small speakers in the rear of the room, but the wire run would just be a huge hassle, and the room is small enough that 5.1 gets the job done fine)

my two accoustic research floor standers with 12" woofer 6" mid-bass, and 2" horn tweeters up front, coupled with a custum subwoofer that uses 3 8" downfiring drivers, powered by a bob carver 600 watt mono amplifier (which would kill the sub if i turned it up, way to much amp for the drivers i've used...but for future expansion, like an SVS sonotube) ported and tuned to 18hz sounds absolutely wonderful at high volumes, i can crank it to reference level with no distortion, i dont know what you guys know about ref. level, but it's 120db at all frequency, measured with a special tuning CD and a mic, plays every frequency and you EQ it out to make every frequency able to play at 120dB....but yeah im jabbering on.... anyway, you can feel the kick drum in your chest, and the imaging is perfect you can actually hear where the instruments are coming from, like the stage was right in front of you...

Might want to check your facts there

Originally posted by: zanejohnson
also, yes there are class D amps.

however, that wire going from your amp to the speaker is NOT CARRYING A DIGITAL SIGNAL, THAT'S JUST STUPID. or else you'd hear two frequencies, on, or off. rofl.

the amps design is digital, as opposed to mosfet or that other design that went out years ago, i cant even remember the name now.... but saying there is a digital signal running through your speaker wires to your speakers is just plain retarded. there would be no range. a class D amp is digital up until the speaker output, from there on out it's an anolog AC electrical current, the power of the current decided by the music, and the draw on the amplifier from the speakers (ohms, which are completely variable depending on the frequency the driver(s) are reproducing.

This post makes me want to kill myself.

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Zane, I think you should go back to do whatever it is you do best.

And perhaps not post 4 times in a row with no one else replying in the middle...

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

This post makes me want to kill myself.

:laugh:

Also since this was a response to me, did he not get anything I mentioned about the Class D amp design or filtering it to an Analog signal based on the average duty cycle of a digital signal. Guess I should have used the term " the power of the current decided by the music" to clearly state what I meant....

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

what I mean is the output of the receiver is not digital, it is always analogue after the amp stage.

also, digital is really state limited analogue.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

Hes right sdifox, they are called Class D amps. Your outlaw is likely either a Class A, Class B or Class A/B amp, which would be analog and much lossier than Digital. Digital amps have efficiencies over 90% in some cases. However most audiophiles agree that digital amps don't have the clarity of a well designed analog amp.

Originally posted by: alfa147x

that doesnt make sense, because speaker are NOT digital, unless they have amp in speakers

My old panasonic had the amp for all the speakers in the sub...

An example of a classic digital amplifier would be an H-Bridge (though better designs exist). It basically creates a PWM signal with a DC average of 0 assuming a 50% duty cycle (AKA its peak and trough have the same differential from 0). An inductor and capacitor are used to smooth out the PWM so that the average DC value of the PWM at any instantaneous time is transmitted to the speaker, where the duty cycle of the PWM is related to the amplitude of the audio signal at any instant (0% duty cycle = full negative, duty 100% = full positive). The H-Bridge itself might switch at 400KHz. However assuming well designed filters, it could adequately create a 20Hz-20KHz signal with little distortion that is nothing more than an averaged out discrete digital signal.

There are many different ways to use a purely digital signal to create an analog output. In fact you could make a pretty decent analog signal using just a digital microprocessor outputting a PWM and a RC or LRC filter of some sort.

PWM produces square wave analogue signal. For it to be digital waveform, it would be pulse-code modulated. And then your speakers would not know what to do with it


I really don't see the point of improving amp efficiency. Fix speaker efficiency first.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

The last thing I ever trust is manufacturer specs...

According to Sound & Vision, Stereophile (german version), and a few other sources, the Panny has been verified to output 90+W @ 8 ohms with all channels driven at 0.03% THD. This is very impressive performance for $230 unit. The PCM stereo output is exceptional for the price, it matches the HK AVR-247's very clean combination of excellent amps and cirrus logic dacs.

They produce very little heat and are extremely efficient (80%+) compared to class A/B which is somewhere between 20% and 30%.

Of course class-d has its limitations...the amplifiers are a bit noisy...as least I can attest to Equibit and ICEpower, I don't know about others. Best stow it away in a cabinet somewhere.

The big advantage of Class-D is indeed efficiency. I don't think it's going to replace AB and A anytime soon.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I'm no audiophile but my setup sounds fine to me. No audible distortion even though it's a class D amp. I may switch back to my Denon though since I no longer have a need for the HDMI port on the Panasonic.

As far as the speakers go that's the only way they will fit in my room. I'm not moving them. They sound fine.

I meant move them forward a bit so their face (not the grille, the driver face) clear that rack. Basically the grille should stick out in front of the rack.

By off the carpet I mean put it on a slab of stone or spike them so that they don't lose their bass to the carpet.


your sub location is not ideal, but if that is the only place you can stick it, at least put some bluetac below it to decouple it from the speaker.

And get rid of that coke can. It must rattle like hell.

 

[alcoholbob]

Zane...

Just out of curiosity (I assume you own the Audiovox ARXP408) what made you decide to match these floorstanders (I don't know what the retail cost is but I've seen them online anywhere from $180/pair to $300/pair) with a $7000 retail Pioneer Elite receiver (I assume SC-09TX)?

 

[alcoholbob]

Originally posted by: sdifox
The big advantage of Class-D is indeed efficiency. I don't think it's going to replace AB and A anytime soon.

Meh, maybe, maybe not.

But a lot of high end names are moving towards ICEPower (although some argue its not even the best Class-D implementation, some claim UcD is better)

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: sdifox
The big advantage of Class-D is indeed efficiency. I don't think it's going to replace AB and A anytime soon.

Meh, maybe, maybe not.

But a lot of high end names are moving towards ICEPower (although some argue its not even the best Class-D implementation, some claim UcD is better)

UcD>IcePower just on the availability issue alone.

 

[alcoholbob]

I'm not sure what the deal is, is UcD struggling for high ouput modules? I know the tripath chips were pretty weak, there was a 200W/channel tripath amp that was like a billion tripath chips jerry-rigged together lol.

The biggest tripath amp out there now I think is ~80W/channel @ 8ohms and thats a very optimistic rating, it's at clipping lol

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
I'm not sure what the deal is, is UcD struggling for high ouput modules? I know the tripath chips were pretty weak, there was a 200W/channel tripath amp that was like a billion tripath chips jerry-rigged together lol.

The biggest tripath amp out there now I think is ~80W/channel @ 8ohms and thats a very optimistic rating, it's at clipping lol

this looks interesting http://www.ulriklund.dk/?q=node/3


and gleamed off hypex website http://www.nodecorporation.co.uk/hyp0001.htm

 

[BassBomb]

Who the hell let zane out of ATOT

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
I'm not sure what the deal is, is UcD struggling for high ouput modules? I know the tripath chips were pretty weak, there was a 200W/channel tripath amp that was like a billion tripath chips jerry-rigged together lol.

The biggest tripath amp out there now I think is ~80W/channel @ 8ohms and thats a very optimistic rating, it's at clipping lol

Nah, there are bigger tripath amps.

Check out this kit site: http://www.41hz.com/

 

[iRONic]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Zane, I think you should go back to do whatever it is you do best.

Use your ModPowers? to edit his posts to read;

"Stoner post. Do not read."

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: iRONic

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Zane, I think you should go back to do whatever it is you do best.

Use your ModPowers? to edit his posts to read;

"Stoner post. Do not read."

I think that would be an abuse of power

I'd rather see people disregard the information on their own

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: iRONic

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Zane, I think you should go back to do whatever it is you do best.

Use your ModPowers? to edit his posts to read;

"Stoner post. Do not read."

I think that would be an abuse of power

I'd rather see people disregard the information on their own

Yep

 

[Muadib]

Wow, Zane here? This could get.......

 

[alcoholbob]

Lol I did find it odd he claimed to have a $7000 receiver and was driving $200-300 speakers.

 

[Modelworks]

Mostly its transformer weight.
There are ways to do it with switching supplies, but then that comes with its own issues and in the end a transformer is pretty damn efficient and easy to work with.

 

[montypythizzle]

I feel compelled to preface my remarks with the following: Comments like that don't sit well with discourteous freebooters. For starters, wherever you look, you'll see amplifier manufacturers enforcing intolerance in the name of tolerance. You'll see it suppressing freedom in the name of freedom. And you'll see it crushing diversity of opinion in the name of diversity. Amplifier manufacturers's propaganda machine once said that amplifier manufacturers would never divert attention from its unprovoked aggression. So much for credibility!

I profess that it can be safely said that amplifier manufacturers's head is so far in rectal defilade it would require major surgery to extricate it. I, speaking as someone who is not a coldhearted hatemonger, would like to give you an example of how self-indulgent amplifier manufacturers can be. Amplifier manufacturers has admitted that it intends to sap people's moral stamina. Okay, that may have been a particularly bald-faced and unsubtle example but amplifier manufacturers doesn't care about freedom, as it can neither sell it nor put it in the bank. It's just a word to it. The poisonous wine of antipluralism had been distilled long before amplifier manufacturers entered the scene. Amplifier manufacturers is merely the agent decanting the poisonous fluid from its bottle into the jug that is world humanity. Everything I've written in this letter amounts to this: I am confident that balmy used-car salesmen will come to their own conclusions about all of these matters.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: montypythizzle
I feel compelled to preface my remarks with the following: Comments like that don't sit well with discourteous freebooters. For starters, wherever you look, you'll see amplifier manufacturers enforcing intolerance in the name of tolerance. You'll see it suppressing freedom in the name of freedom. And you'll see it crushing diversity of opinion in the name of diversity. Amplifier manufacturers's propaganda machine once said that amplifier manufacturers would never divert attention from its unprovoked aggression. So much for credibility!

I profess that it can be safely said that amplifier manufacturers's head is so far in rectal defilade it would require major surgery to extricate it. I, speaking as someone who is not a coldhearted hatemonger, would like to give you an example of how self-indulgent amplifier manufacturers can be. Amplifier manufacturers has admitted that it intends to sap people's moral stamina. Okay, that may have been a particularly bald-faced and unsubtle example but amplifier manufacturers doesn't care about freedom, as it can neither sell it nor put it in the bank. It's just a word to it. The poisonous wine of antipluralism had been distilled long before amplifier manufacturers entered the scene. Amplifier manufacturers is merely the agent decanting the poisonous fluid from its bottle into the jug that is world humanity. Everything I've written in this letter amounts to this: I am confident that balmy used-car salesmen will come to their own conclusions about all of these matters.

Wow....a complaint letter generator...that's just about as old as the internet.

 

[alcoholbob]

Lol, nothing quite as nonsensical as copy and paste letter templates.