why are receiver units usually so bulky?

[Omegachi]

Ive seen some slimer designs, but most ive seen are big and bulky. Why is this?

 

[RandomFool]

cable management would be my first guess.

 

[alcoholbob]

Giant heatsink for the amplifiers...the bigger the amps the bigger the receivers.

My Onkyo has like 9 more inputs than my Yamaha but is about 40% bigger...the Yamaha has even less inputs than my Panny SA-XR55...but is twice the size...

It's all in the heat dissipation...like Zalman heatsinks in computers, trade off noise for a lot of space.

 

[s44]

Think about how much power that thing sucks up.

 

[Pacfanweb]

The better the amplifier, the bigger and heavier it's going to be. No way around that....the best amps are all heavy.

 

[Shawn]

Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

 

[montypythizzle]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The better the amplifier, the bigger and heavier it's going to be. No way around that....the best amps are all heavy.

SHHH, now bricks will be included in all Polaroid Home Theater systems.

 

[BassBomb]

Definitely amp and heatsinks that cause the weight. My old stereo mini system's middle piece was ~25lbs which was not that bad. My JVC Reciever is about 35lbs and always surprises me when I pick it up.

 

[krotchy]

As mentioned, amps and heatsinks are heavy. Also I have seen some pretty massive transformers or inductors inside of some receiver designs, and some also contain some rather gigantic caps to steady the power. The big thing is the decreasing size of electrical components really doesn't have as much of an effect on receivers, because they still need to output ~700Watts and the one field that really never decreases in size by much is high power devices, even with the advent of High-Speed-Switching Converters and whatnot.

 

[sdifox]

mostly room to dissipate heat. Also, on better ones they try to isolate the digital stage from the analogue stage so more room is used.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

Perhaps you should look at my quote again:

the best amps are all heavy

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Shawn
Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

Que? There is no such thing as all digital when it comes to a receiver.


my amp (Outlaw 750) weights in at 73lb.... And that is just the amplifier.

I think the box it came in weights more than your SA-XR57 which has a Class D amp.
100x7W@6Ohm at 1KHz and with a 0.9% THD? That's bad...

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/750manual.pdf


PS, move your main speakers forward and get them off the carpet.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: montypythizzle

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
The better the amplifier, the bigger and heavier it's going to be. No way around that....the best amps are all heavy.

SHHH, now bricks will be included in all Polaroid Home Theater systems.

Has already happened with some of the white van scams.

 

[spidey07]

sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

that doesnt make sense, because speaker are NOT digital, unless they have amp in speakers

My old panasonic had the amp for all the speakers in the sub...

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

Hes right sdifox, they are called Class D amps. Your outlaw is likely either a Class A, Class B or Class A/B amp, which would be analog and much lossier than Digital. Digital amps have efficiencies over 90% in some cases. However most audiophiles agree that digital amps don't have the clarity of a well designed analog amp.

Originally posted by: alfa147x

that doesnt make sense, because speaker are NOT digital, unless they have amp in speakers

My old panasonic had the amp for all the speakers in the sub...

An example of a classic digital amplifier would be an H-Bridge (though better designs exist). It basically creates a PWM signal with a DC average of 0 assuming a 50% duty cycle (AKA its peak and trough have the same differential from 0). An inductor and capacitor are used to smooth out the PWM so that the average DC value of the PWM at any instantaneous time is transmitted to the speaker, where the duty cycle of the PWM is related to the amplitude of the audio signal at any instant (0% duty cycle = full negative, duty 100% = full positive). The H-Bridge itself might switch at 400KHz. However assuming well designed filters, it could adequately create a 20Hz-20KHz signal with little distortion that is nothing more than an averaged out discrete digital signal.

There are many different ways to use a purely digital signal to create an analog output. In fact you could make a pretty decent analog signal using just a digital microprocessor outputting a PWM and a RC or LRC filter of some sort.

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

hes right sdifox, they are called Class D amps. Your outlaw is likely either a Class A, Class B or Class A/B amp, which would be analog and much lossier than Digital. Digital amps have efficiencies over 90% in some cases. However most audiophiles agree that digital amps don't have the clarity of a well designed analog amp.

wait how are amps digital, speakers take a analog input

 

[krotchy]

accidentally replied, look at edit 2 posts up.

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: spidey07
sdifox, there are pure digital amplifiers out there, including that panasonic. That's why they're so small and don't produce a ton of heat.

Hes right sdifox, they are called Class D amps. Your outlaw is likely either a Class A, Class B or Class A/B amp, which would be analog and much lossier than Digital. Digital amps have efficiencies over 90% in some cases. However most audiophiles agree that digital amps don't have the clarity of a well designed analog amp.

Originally posted by: alfa147x

that doesnt make sense, because speaker are NOT digital, unless they have amp in speakers

My old panasonic had the amp for all the speakers in the sub...

An example of a classic digital amplifier would be an H-Bridge (though better designs exist). It basically creates a PWM signal with a DC average of 0 assuming a 50% duty cycle (AKA its peak and trough have the same differential from 0). An inductor and capacitor are used to smooth out the PWM so that the average DC value of the PWM at any instantaneous time is transmitted to the speaker, where the duty cycle of the PWM is related to the amplitude of the audio signal at any instant (0% duty cycle = full negative, duty 100% = full positive). The H-Bridge itself might switch at 400KHz. However assuming well designed filters, it could adequately create a 20Hz-20KHz signal with little distortion that is nothing more than an averaged out discrete digital signal.

Oh I see, kinda like how we drove our motors in a school robot

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: alfa147x
Oh I see, kinda like how we drove our motors in a school robot

Yeah, though for audio the PWM is a whole lot faster with much tighter control timings :-D. In fact an H-Bridge is typically used for motor control and I bet your schools robot had a discrete one onboard, though it can be used to create pretty much any AC signal. Truthfully though it isn't the best audio amp, and there are other digital amps with very similar concepts that can work extremely well. They just aren't as easy to explain.

 

[alcoholbob]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Shawn
Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

Que? There is no such thing as all digital when it comes to a receiver.


my amp (Outlaw 750) weights in at 73lb.... And that is just the amplifier.

I think the box it came in weights more than your SA-XR57 which has a Class D amp.
100x7W@6Ohm at 1KHz and with a 0.9% THD? That's bad...

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/750manual.pdf


PS, move your main speakers forward and get them off the carpet.

The last thing I ever trust is manufacturer specs...

According to Sound & Vision, Stereophile (german version), and a few other sources, the Panny has been verified to output 90+W @ 8 ohms with all channels driven at 0.03% THD. This is very impressive performance for $230 unit. The PCM stereo output is exceptional for the price, it matches the HK AVR-247's very clean combination of excellent amps and cirrus logic dacs.

They produce very little heat and are extremely efficient (80%+) compared to class A/B which is somewhere between 20% and 30%.

Of course class-d has its limitations...the amplifiers are a bit noisy...as least I can attest to Equibit and ICEpower, I don't know about others. Best stow it away in a cabinet somewhere.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Shawn
Not all are that large. My Panasonic SA-XR57 is about 2/3 the size of a regular receiver and barely gives off any heat, but that is because it is all digital.

pic

Que? There is no such thing as all digital when it comes to a receiver.


my amp (Outlaw 750) weights in at 73lb.... And that is just the amplifier.

I think the box it came in weights more than your SA-XR57 which has a Class D amp.
100x7W@6Ohm at 1KHz and with a 0.9% THD? That's bad...

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/750manual.pdf


PS, move your main speakers forward and get them off the carpet.

The mains will be fine on the carpet if they have spikes on the bottoms.

I'd be more concerned about the apparent subwoofer on TOP of the right main speaker.

 

[Shawn]

I'm no audiophile but my setup sounds fine to me. No audible distortion even though it's a class D amp. I may switch back to my Denon though since I no longer have a need for the HDMI port on the Panasonic.

As far as the speakers go that's the only way they will fit in my room. I'm not moving them. They sound fine.

 

[zanejohnson]

i have a nice pioneer elite 7.1 receiver, used for my HTPC setup, the thing is HUGE, wont fit in the slots in my entertainment center even, it has to go on top, i've taken the top off and it has heatsinks on the amplifiers (all seperate class D amps for every channel, rated at 150 watts RMS) the sinks make a TRUE look like a puny stock intel sink.... that's what takes up most of the space in the reciever... but it sounds beautiful in 2 channel, and 5 channel (as i only have a 5.1 speaker setup, i've thought of throwing a couple of small speakers in the rear of the room, but the wire run would just be a huge hassle, and the room is small enough that 5.1 gets the job done fine)

my two accoustic research floor standers with 12" woofer 6" mid-bass, and 2" horn tweeters up front, coupled with a custum subwoofer that uses 3 8" downfiring drivers, powered by a bob carver 600 watt mono amplifier (which would kill the sub if i turned it up, way to much amp for the drivers i've used...but for future expansion, like an SVS sonotube) ported and tuned to 18hz sounds absolutely wonderful at high volumes, i can crank it to reference level with no distortion, i dont know what you guys know about ref. level, but it's 120db at all frequency, measured with a special tuning CD and a mic, plays every frequency and you EQ it out to make every frequency able to play at 120dB....but yeah im jabbering on.... anyway, you can feel the kick drum in your chest, and the imaging is perfect you can actually hear where the instruments are coming from, like the stage was right in front of you...

 

[zanejohnson]

the smaller the receiver, the crappier amps its gonna have