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Who's your favorite Ex-President ????
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yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
True. Though to many of us, Carter has proved what happens when you take a soft line on, well, everything. 😛
In modern times: Reagan, Clinton, Bush the Sr. Bush Sr. doesn't get enough credit in my books for his delicate handling of the collapse of the USSR and the subsequent Desert Shield and Desert Storm campaigns.
In earlier times: James Polk? He brought you Texas, Missouri, Louisiana, Utah and California all in the one term he pledged to serve, though he could have easily won again.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
And... that still doesn't mean they are at war. I could shoot some kid on the street, and it wouldn't be war. Some angered civilian could shoot at military personnel stationed in Korea, but that wouldn't make it war. And I'm pretty sure the USS Cole was blown up by a small boat filled with explosives 😕
Kennedy for the spirit he brought to the country.
Jimmy Carter for being one of the finest human beings ever to hold the office.
Clinton was a good personality, but he sure fell short on personal integrity. Even worse, he's bright enough that he should have known better. 🙁
I'm torn about Bush Jr. Right now, I wish he was an ex-president. I'd be even happier if he was never elected, but that would take him out of the running for this topic. It would be a price well worth paying. 😎
Jimmy Carter for being one of the finest human beings ever to hold the office.
Clinton was a good personality, but he sure fell short on personal integrity. Even worse, he's bright enough that he should have known better. 🙁
I'm torn about Bush Jr. Right now, I wish he was an ex-president. I'd be even happier if he was never elected, but that would take him out of the running for this topic. It would be a price well worth paying. 😎
The Stigenator
Lifer
carter and clinton for me... even though i wasnt around during carter's presidency, i like the work he is doing today.
Clinton because i think he was way cool.
Bush i hate.. doesnt matter if its the senior or spawn or even one where it needs to be trimmed.
Clinton because i think he was way cool.
Bush i hate.. doesnt matter if its the senior or spawn or even one where it needs to be trimmed.
wirelessenabled
Platinum Member
You need to read up on Lincoln. Those were some WILD times! I am just finishing Shelby Foote's 3 volume tome on the Civil War years. Worth the (3000 page) read. Lincoln did a lot of quid pro quo politics in order to get reelected in 1864. Pretty shady be today's standards. Suspended habeas corpus in areas opposed to him. Set up new state governments in former Confederate areas in which he set the standard as 10% of the population in favor of the North was enough to elect a government. Many of these areas contributed electoral votes to Lincoln. Furloughed soldiers from areas known to vote for Lincoln, ie Indiana so that they could go home and vote for him. Held soldiers from other areas opposed to him.
I am not saying Lincoln wasn't a great President but still not any where close to a lily white figure as portrayed in most history books. I would say that some of his tactics were out of bounds for the results as is happening now.
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Originally posted by: aircooled
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
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Originally posted by: aircooled
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
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Originally posted by: GoPackGo
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Clinton. No wars, good economy. Sound policy.
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No Wars huh? Guess those soldiers killed in Mogadishu dont count huh? Guess those soldiers killed on the USS Cole dont count either.
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It wasn't wartime. The sailors on the USS Cole weren't on wartime alert.
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no, they were just being shot at
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And... that still doesn't mean they are at war. I could shoot some kid on the street, and it wouldn't be war. Some angered civilian could shoot at military personnel stationed in Korea, but that wouldn't make it war. And I'm pretty sure the USS Cole was blown up by a small boat filled with explosives
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You're right, war being 'declared' is totally different than being in war-like activity. silly me, thinking being killed by enemy fire is different if it's not declared "war"
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GOP controlled congress. If they thought those were wars, they had the constitutional power to declare them. You know the Constitution, right? The one that's "not a suicide pact?"
You just hate that people love Clinton, don't you?
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I guess Kosovo doesn't count huh not that I disagreed with that decision just his morals, or lack of.
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Originally posted by: aircooled
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
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Originally posted by: aircooled
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
quote:
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Originally posted by: GoPackGo
quote:
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Clinton. No wars, good economy. Sound policy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No Wars huh? Guess those soldiers killed in Mogadishu dont count huh? Guess those soldiers killed on the USS Cole dont count either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't wartime. The sailors on the USS Cole weren't on wartime alert.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
no, they were just being shot at
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And... that still doesn't mean they are at war. I could shoot some kid on the street, and it wouldn't be war. Some angered civilian could shoot at military personnel stationed in Korea, but that wouldn't make it war. And I'm pretty sure the USS Cole was blown up by a small boat filled with explosives
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right, war being 'declared' is totally different than being in war-like activity. silly me, thinking being killed by enemy fire is different if it's not declared "war"
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GOP controlled congress. If they thought those were wars, they had the constitutional power to declare them. You know the Constitution, right? The one that's "not a suicide pact?"
You just hate that people love Clinton, don't you?
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I guess Kosovo doesn't count huh not that I disagreed with that decision just his morals, or lack of.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
I'm not disputing that there were no conflicts under Clinton, just disputing the examples. But, Kosovo/ Serbia/ Yugoslavia: Wasn't that a NATO thing?
IAteYourMother
Lifer
That's the thing, they weren't involved in war-like activity. As I said earlier, anyone can shoot or blow up a soldier, but that doens't mean that it's war. It was just an isolated event. Compare that to Iraq or Vietnam or Yugoslavia, and you'll see the difference.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
I believe the US also went into Somalia for a mission under Clinton
miketheidiot
Lifer
Again, its about the morality. I do not see invaded mexica on very questionable pretexts as a moral act. Also i agree the bush1 deserves more credit than he gets. :beer:
LeadMagnet
Platinum Member
Teddy!
IAteYourMother
Lifer
Yeah, well, military operations are the focus of the debate now i guess.
IAteYourMother
Lifer
CORRECTED
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