I'm hoping for that too, but If BW-E overclocks to around 4.8-5GHz an AIR with a lower power consumption and of course it uses solder that with the average improvement in performance per clock on the order of 5% and assuming its junior model costs the same as 5820K I'm still going to upgrade. Because of overheating I had to lower the overclock to 4.25GHz so that would be 13% higher frequency and that along with 5% bump in IPC would provide me with 1*1.14*1.05=1.2 and that would be enough but something tells me that it is too much so in reality it's going to be more like 1*1.1*1.05=15.5% not taking into account golden chips, just average over-clockers but that's still enough for me considering how much I invested in both the top-notch motherboard and a very fast RAM for which I only paid 16% less than for the CPU.
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I doubt Intel is going back to solder on consumer CPUs including HEDT. All signs are pointing to an increasingly fragile dice (including the use of micro-air-gap insulating structures @ 14nm). Solder still makes sense in servers where CPUs use a passive heatsink and fans in the chassis blow across the HS an move air out the back for a typical rack setup. They are much pricier CPUs used in specific, fairly steady state environments.
HEDT isn't really a consumer platform per se, it's just a re-branded 8-cores Xenon-EP
Give me more lower cost oriented MBs like the ASRock X99 Extreme3 and lower DDR4 prices and I would jump ship to an HW-E platform. Its sad the first time we see a competitively priced 6C/12T Intel SKU its the same time we have to bear with overinflated RAM costs and a scarse selection of sub $200 mobos (I mean c'mon, most of those x99 mobos are really overkill, even for a 8C/16T sku).
exar333
Diamond Member
- Feb 7, 2004
- 8,518
- 8
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True, but you can get a nice system for not a ton of cash. I know not everyone has access to a MC, but I just grabbed my CPU there. Got my 16GB Corsair Vengeance kit <$300 AR, MB for ~$210 AR and the CPU for $300. That's right around $800, which is only $200 more than just the 3930K CPU alone, when that came out.
That's only a $100 more than you would build for a nice 4C/8T K system right now...and you have a lot more to look forward too and options for SLI/CF.
It's the DDR4 that's really most of the price delta, that will come down (just like DDR3 did before). Memory bandwidth doesn't matter a whole lot outside of benches these days anyways, so get 2666mhz and be happy. The hynix pretty much all OC to 3000mhz anyways, although you may get better overall performance with tighter timings at 2666/2800 anyway from what I have seen.
xthetenth
Golden Member
- Oct 14, 2014
- 1,800
- 529
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Haswell-e delivers most of what I'd want, since I want a platform with room for upgrades, and having DDR4 will make it really easy to pick up memory in the future. However, I'm in a smallish room and I don't want to deal with how much heat its specs say it can output. Plus, six relatively slow cores isn't really what I'm angling for from a gaming perspective. It'll probably be better to just wait a year for DDR4 to become cheaper (will it enter the mainstream as well with that generation?)
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
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There is no night and day difference for basic every day tasks like YouTube, office work, Internet. I have an E6600 + 7970 + SSD in the secondary rig and it can have 40-50 Chrome tabs open no problem. In every day "feel", it's not any worse than my overclocked i5. The biggest upgrade for old systems is an SSD. The average mom/dad will not feel any difference between a 3Ghz Wolfdale + Samsung 840 +
GT 620 and 5960X + 850 Pro + 980. It's not like Facebook or YouTube runs faster on Haswell. You just need to have a semi-decent GPU for video acceleration. Even a GT620 / HD5450 will do.
You don't hear anyone say that Apple's A7/8 chips are too slow for browsing or Facebook.
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Makaveli
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2002
- 5,026
- 1,624
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Hoping Broadwell-E has a sub-$600 8C part and Skylake-E has a 10C part. Keep bringing-on the cores.
I highly doubt that but it would be nice.
There is a noticeable difference. Apple's legions are blinded, they will use whatever Apple dribbles out.
Really?! Amazing that a simple 'rebranding' causes a physical change in the CPU TIM. Oh, and the CPU prices drop dramatically, simply by removing 'Xeon' from the name. It must be magic!
crashtech
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2013
- 10,695
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An amount of snark that may be unfounded. It looks as if so far HEDT CPUs are produced on the same equipment used for Xeons, and why not, they are the same package and have very limited sales. It would be a real stretch to think Intel would devote a whole new assembly line just to screw HEDT users out of solder.Really?! Amazing that a simple 'rebranding' causes a physical change in the CPU TIM. Oh, and the CPU prices drop dramatically, simply by removing 'Xeon' from the name. It must be magic!
exar333
Diamond Member
- Feb 7, 2004
- 8,518
- 8
- 91
This.
And to add, the SKU prices between Haswell-E and Xeon are actually pretty close. Most HW-E 6C and 8C parts don't even have an equivalent Xeon anymore as most higher-end Xeons are 10C+ now. if you compare offerings, they are pretty competitive.
why even bother upgrading? chances are - skylake will be another rebrand.
CPU:
as of now. there is simply NOT enough IPC. which forces the need to overclock.
with overclocking involved. there is absolutely NOTHING special about any of these refresh since sandy bridge.
for comparison. an overclock sandy bridge (i7-2700k to ~5.0 GHz) is near equivalent to haswell (i7-4790k to ~4.6 GHz) in overall performance.
RAM:
DDR3 PC-1600 pretty much removed most memory bottleneck. DDR3 PC-1866 is marginal improvement if any. there is reallie NOTHING SPECIAL about ram above 1600.
UPGRADE:
upgrade because you have money to burn or you have the upgrade itch or you want more bragging rights. as for more performance gain - once you get to sandy bridge and "is" overclocking - it is moot.
will see if skylake makes any difference.
also - if developers do get multi-threaded going. even amd fx will make a nice comeback.
CPU:
as of now. there is simply NOT enough IPC. which forces the need to overclock.
with overclocking involved. there is absolutely NOTHING special about any of these refresh since sandy bridge.
for comparison. an overclock sandy bridge (i7-2700k to ~5.0 GHz) is near equivalent to haswell (i7-4790k to ~4.6 GHz) in overall performance.
RAM:
DDR3 PC-1600 pretty much removed most memory bottleneck. DDR3 PC-1866 is marginal improvement if any. there is reallie NOTHING SPECIAL about ram above 1600.
UPGRADE:
upgrade because you have money to burn or you have the upgrade itch or you want more bragging rights. as for more performance gain - once you get to sandy bridge and "is" overclocking - it is moot.
will see if skylake makes any difference.
also - if developers do get multi-threaded going. even amd fx will make a nice comeback.
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 20,231
- 7,356
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Yeah I understand why people are hoping for something "magic" to happen, but intel's tack record has been +5-10% IPC minus 5-10% clock speed equals roughly the same speed overall. I don't see why broadwell or skylake would be any different. Also the reason I chose to go with X99 and 5820K from an i5-750 is better IPC, better clock speed AND 50% more cores than my previous setup. To me that's an upgrade that matters. I'm not going to say how other people should spend their money, but if I hadn't gone for more cores I wouldn't have upgraded.
Makaveli
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2002
- 5,026
- 1,624
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Anyone upgrading after sitting on a previous build for like 4+ years doesn't fit his example.
You were due.
III-V
Senior member
- Oct 12, 2014
- 678
- 1
- 41
Really?! Amazing that a simple 'rebranding' causes a physical change in the CPU TIM. Oh, and the CPU prices drop dramatically, simply by removing 'Xeon' from the name. It must be magic!
So you think 5820K, 5930K and 5960X are physically different than 8-cores Xeons EP? You're wrong! There are 3 HW-EP dice, 8 cores version, 12 core version and 18 core version and that's it. No separate physical dice or package for i7 or Xeons. None. What's more the least expensive CPUs for 2011-3 platform are 6 core Xeons without HT namely Xeon 2603 and 2609 for $213 and $303 respectively. 6C/6T at 1.6GHz and also 6C/6T at 1.9GHz respectively. All socket 2011-3 use solder not TIM, maybe you have confused them with 4790K which indeed use some kind of paste as TIM.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
- 16,889
- 2,208
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That's the fundamental truth that might restrain wiser mainstreamers, or cause some of us hotdawgs to save our money.
The HDD was the biggest bottleneck to my remembrance, and the SSD opened it up. Now we're looking at SATA-Express etc. to open it further.
Even so, if you have an LGA-775 mobo and it doesn't have PCI-E 2.0 slots, you only get half the boost you'd expect with an SSD.
So I have this old EP45-UD3R mobo here with an E8400, a "blue" drive connected to the SATA-II port. As soon as I thought the mobo might be going south, I decided to de-commission it and free up the computer-case for my next big build. I made that decision, period. I soon discovered the problem was a software glitch, but I'm still going to do it.
On the back side of things, I just acquired a 2007/2008 C2D laptop -- also with only SATA_II. For what I need it for, I'm going to squeeze it for every hour and day it's worth. I even "over-invested" -- $10 to get wireless-N, but the price of an MX100 and 2x4GB SO-DIMM. I can always move the MX100 to a desktop.
My sig-rig is multi-purpose, acting as HTPC as a low-level background process while I can game and do everything else simultaneously.
I think it's nice to have more power than you can use -- better than "just sufficient." But it's also food for thought.
I'm still planning to build my E system next year, but I don't really need it. It's just . . . something I wanna do.
You're overthinking it. 50% more cores for the same price as last year's quad core. Same price as the top end mainstream i7. It's a large increase in performance for a lot of applications, far beyond the 5-10% we're getting each generation. It's the biggest bump in performance since quads became mainstream.
You're far too kind to INTEL. It's not the same price, not even the CPU. It's on a more expensive platform with more expensive memory all in all you have to pay much more, the price of the CPU is the least important consideration in this case.
4770K release price
BOX : $350.00
TRAY: $339.00
5820K release price
BOX : $396.00
TRAY: $389.00
MOBO:
ROG 1150 $239.99
ROG 2011 $520
Every comparable mobo will be much more expensive for 2011-3 than for 1150
RAM:
16GB DDR 3 2400MHz $190.87
16GB DDR 4 2400MHz $280
Yeah, same price
Plus you have to buy a cooler for a 5820k while for a 4770K you don't, even though you should, but it's also a factor if you're building on the cheap.
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Well the CPUs were like within $10-20 of each other retail. And you do certainly have to buy the more expensive supporting parts...but you're still getting what you pay for. x99 is much more capable than z97 and your ddr4 will last a lot longer.
The main point I'm trying to make is that right now it's like you have a choice between current generation and next generation, and now more than ever you're getting your money's worth by stepping up to HEDT. Neither is going to change all that much over the next few years. Both platforms aren't going to get anything but minor bumps for a long time.
Look at the broader choices you have to make. If you buy more ddr3 now, that's just more ddr3 you're going to have to toss away when ddr4 becomes standard. PCI-E SSDs will become common soon too, and almost none of the mainstream boards have an x4 m.2 slot. Even if you use standard slots you can't put in more than one drive without running out of lanes and starving your GPU.
It just seems to me that the mainstream platforms are going to feel crusty and old a lot sooner than they have for the past few years. And 2-3 years from now you're not going to get much more than you are with Haswell-E right now. It used to be the case that HEDT got you more memory channels and lanes, neither of which you really needed. The value wasn't there, it was all theoretically better but made zero difference. That's not the case with x99.
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