Who's skipping Haswell-e and Broadwell-e?

[exar333]

Well the CPUs were like within $10-20 of each other retail. And you do certainly have to buy the more expensive supporting parts...but you're still getting what you pay for. x99 is much more capable than z97 and your ddr4 will last a lot longer.

The main point I'm trying to make is that right now it's like you have a choice between current generation and next generation, and now more than ever you're getting your money's worth by stepping up to HEDT. Neither is going to change all that much over the next few years. Both platforms aren't going to get anything but minor bumps for a long time.

Look at the broader choices you have to make. If you buy more ddr3 now, that's just more ddr3 you're going to have to toss away when ddr4 becomes standard. PCI-E SSDs will become common soon too, and almost none of the mainstream boards have an x4 m.2 slot. Even if you use standard slots you can't put in more than one drive without running out of lanes and starving your GPU.

It just seems to me that the mainstream platforms are going to feel crusty and old a lot sooner than they have for the past few years. And 2-3 years from now you're not going to get much more than you are with Haswell-E right now. It used to be the case that HEDT got you more memory channels and lanes, neither of which you really needed. The value wasn't there, it was all theoretically better but made zero difference. That's not the case with x99.

This.

And I would argue that a 'ROG 1155' <> 'ROG 2011-3' MB. Grab pretty much any x99 MB for ~$350 and you are pretty-much on-par with the best 1155 board. You are comparing apples to oranges; mainstream to enthusiast. I know people bust-out the car analogies, but it's like comparing a base-trim Ford to a base-trim Audi. Different beasts...

 

[Lepton87]

This.

And I would argue that a 'ROG 1155' <> 'ROG 2011-3' MB. Grab pretty much any x99 MB for ~$350 and you are pretty-much on-par with the best 1155 board. You are comparing apples to oranges; mainstream to enthusiast. I know people bust-out the car analogies, but it's like comparing a base-trim Ford to a base-trim Audi. Different beasts...

ROG mobos are mainstream? Right.
I compared the best mobos, still, even a mobo for 350 would be $100 dollars more expensive than 1150 equivalent. So 5820K platform is significantly more expensive and not the same price as someone argued.

4930K+DDR3 would cost me about the same as I paid for 5820K+DDR4 so nothing really changed about HEDT platform due to RAM prices.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

But with X99 (and a 5820K) you get 50% more cores, 3x GPU + M2 support, DDR4 support, and native USB 3.0. So it's significantly more expensive, but it's also significantly better for some of us.

 

[BD2003]

Yeah, I mean I'm making a slightly different comparison than the OP, who'd be going from sandy-E to has-E. At least in that case you've got the extra lanes even if you don't have m.2 slots. But unless you had 3-4 GPUs there wasn't much point to it outside of bragging rights unless you wanted to drop $1K on the hex core Ivy. This is the first time HEDT has made any sense for enthusiasts of more modest means.

As you say, the boards are basically a wash - all the add-ins that drive up the price of a z97 board like extra SATA, PCIE and USB ports just get you on par with the baseline X99. I paid $275 for my x-99A and $250 for a ROG VII hero, and the x99 still has many more USB and SATA ports, but a real x4 m.2 and enough lanes to support its slots.

 

[Lepton87]

But with X99 (and a 5820K) you get 50% more cores, 3x GPU + M2 support, DDR4 support, and native USB 3.0. So it's significantly more expensive, but it's also significantly better for some of us.

You don't need to convince me, just look at my sig.I just said 4790k and 5820k are not the same price.

 

[Ajay]

So you think 5820K, 5930K and 5960X are physically different than 8-cores Xeons EP? You're wrong! There are 3 HW-EP dice, 8 cores version, 12 core version and 18 core version and that's it. No separate physical dice or package for i7 or Xeons. None. What's more the least expensive CPUs for 2011-3 platform are 6 core Xeons without HT namely Xeon 2603 and 2609 for $213 and $303 respectively. 6C/6T at 1.6GHz and also 6C/6T at 1.9GHz respectively. All socket 2011-3 use solder not TIM, maybe you have confused them with 4790K which indeed use some kind of paste as TIM.

The only delidded shot I've seen is and ES 12 core that originated at driftOC and has been reproduced *everywhere*. It's not even an 8 core die.

MSI's top overclocker board has delid die guard: http://game.msi.com/us/product/motherboard/x99-mpower-xpower

What would be the point of that with solder?

 

[Lepton87]

The only delidded shot I've seen is and ES 12 core that originated at driftOC and has been reproduced *everywhere*. It's not even an 8 core die.

MSI's top overclocker board has delid die guard: http://game.msi.com/us/product/motherboard/x99-mpower-xpower

What would be the point of that with solder?

Maybe I was wrong about solder but whatever TIM Xeons V3 2011-3 use, i7 2011-3 also use. But I always thought it was solder for 2011-3 platform, IVY-E used solder while the regular IVY didn't.
This is what Anand had to say about it

hankfully Intel has not decided to play around with the extreme edition platform too much since Nehalem. Although recent reports suggest that Intel is using an epoxy to bind the die to the heatspreader, one tell-tale sign that a goopy TIM is not being used is the hole in the heatspreader in one of the corners.

Looking through the previous generations, Sandy-E, Ivy-E and Haswell-E shows this hole, which is typically thought to allow for expansion of the heatspreader and/or gas trapped inside due to the heat. Also due to the way that the epoxy is handled, the heatspreader cannot be removed without force and destroying parts the silicon die.

It's not the same shitty thermal interface as 4790K use.

 

[III-V]

The only delidded shot I've seen is and ES 12 core that originated at driftOC and has been reproduced *everywhere*. It's not even an 8 core die.

MSI's top overclocker board has delid die guard: http://game.msi.com/us/product/motherboard/x99-mpower-xpower

What would be the point of that with solder?

You desolder the IHS.

 

[BD2003]

You don't need to convince me, just look at my sig.I just said 4790k and 5820k are not the same price.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/437203/core_i7-5820k_33_ghz_lga_2011_v3_tray_processor

http://www.microcenter.com/product/434176/core_i7-4790k_40ghz_lga_1150_boxed_processor

$279 vs $299. The difference is insignificant.

 

[Lepton87]

http://www.microcenter.com/product/437203/core_i7-5820k_33_ghz_lga_2011_v3_tray_processor

http://www.microcenter.com/product/434176/core_i7-4790k_40ghz_lga_1150_boxed_processor

$279 vs $299. The difference is insignificant.

oh man, I meant the whole platform cost. Also add a cooler to that.

 

[Ajay]

Maybe I was wrong about solder but whatever TIM Xeons V3 2011-3 use, i7 2011-3 also use. But I always thought it was solder for 2011-3 platform, IVY-E used solder while the regular IVY didn't.

It's really hard to tell. I'm a bit surprised no one has taken the lid off of a 5820K yet (obviously, it takes a lot of cash to chance that on a 5960X). I read one review (out of a dozen) that mentioned HW-E has a polymer based TIM like the 4790K - I've goggled the heck out of it and can't find it again.

Sorry I was so harsh earlier. I must have peed in my own wheaties

 

[Lepton87]

It's really hard to tell. I'm a bit surprised no one has taken the lid off of a 5820K yet (obviously, it takes a lot of cash to chance that on a 5960X). I read one review (out of a dozen) that mentioned HW-E has a polymer based TIM like the 4790K - I've goggled the heck out of it and can't find it again.

Sorry I was so harsh earlier. I must have peed in my own wheaties

Anand says it doesn't use the same TIM as 4790k and the temperature variance between the samples confirms that or rather lack of the same temp variance.

 

[Ajay]

Anand says it doesn't use the same TIM as 4790k and the temperature variance between the samples confirms that or rather lack of the same temp variance.

Yeah, but that article doesn't specify what the TIM is, which I find very strange. If it's different, just say what it is - unless Intel has something to hide for whatever reason.

 

[exar333]

oh man, I meant the whole platform cost. Also add a cooler to that.

Honestly, the only difference is $100 for the RAM and maybe $50 for the MB. The cooler is a red herring because who uses the stock cooler on a 4790k and is contemplating a 6C as an alternative? At the very least, grab a $30 212+ and call it a day.

So at most....we are talking $150-200 difference. If that breaks the bank, the builder should probably think twice about any new build.

 

[tential]

Honestly, the only difference is $100 for the RAM and maybe $50 for the MB. The cooler is a red herring because who uses the stock cooler on a 4790k and is contemplating a 6C as an alternative? At the very least, grab a $30 212+ and call it a day.

So at most....we are talking $150-200 difference. If that breaks the bank, the builder should probably think twice about any new build.

Then why didn't you get the 5930k? Afterall, it's less than a $200 different... it wouldn't break the bank for you so why not?

 

[SunnyD]

I'm skipping them... only because I don't have spare funds to build a new rig.

 

[exar333]

Then why didn't you get the 5930k? Afterall, it's less than a $200 different... it wouldn't break the bank for you so why not?

Apparently you are struggling with the concept of 'value-add'.

-4790k is a 4C part
-5820k is a 6C part with a better platform (X99); $200 higher
-5930k is the same as the 5820k with more PCIe lanes; $400 higher

For me, the additional $200 over the 5820k provided me no value. If 6C provides no more value than 4C, why would you get that? I would argue that the 5930k is the most niche 2011-3 CPU as it only makes sense if 8C isn't needed BUT more PCIe lanes are required vs a 5820k.

 

[BD2003]

Then why didn't you get the 5930k? Afterall, it's less than a $200 different... it wouldn't break the bank for you so why not?

Because what you get for that $200 isn't that worthwhile.

 

[BD2003]

Honestly, the only difference is $100 for the RAM and maybe $50 for the MB. The cooler is a red herring because who uses the stock cooler on a 4790k and is contemplating a 6C as an alternative? At the very least, grab a $30 212+ and call it a day.



So at most....we are talking $150-200 difference. If that breaks the bank, the builder should probably think twice about any new build.

Indeed. And for someone looking to build a high end rig, the has-e build has a considerably longer potential lifespan.

 

[exar333]

Indeed. And for someone looking to build a high end rig, the has-e build has a considerably longer potential lifespan.

Good point.

Mainstream Intel platforms are notoriously short-lived in CPU support. Don't expect more than one more generation of CPUs to be supported. The enthusiast has fared better and holds-value better too.

 

[escrow4]

I've sprung for a 5930K and Asrock X99 Extreme 4 for my gaming box. Slapped on a Noctua UH14S for the cooler. Only running @ 3.7GHz via MCE now but its hilariously fast. Seriously. Work box continues to run a Z87 based 4770 non K.

Now there won't be any CPU bottlenecks this gen from consoles. :awe:

Seriously though, its a fine platform that absolutely craps all over X79. I now await Skylake-E and what it brings, I will not go back to a quad for gaming.

 

[biostud]

In Denmark the price difference between similar systems is around $250:

2x8Gb DDR3-1866, Asrock z97 Killer, i7-4770k $800
4x4Gb DDR4-2133, ASrock X99X Killer, i7-5820K $1050

And besides what has already been mentioned the X99 version of the motherboard also includes:
Dual NIC (Intel+Killer)
PCIe Mini Card
M.2 32Gb/s vs 10Gb/s
6 USB 3.0 vs 4
1 eSATA port

 

[Lepton87]

In Denmark the price difference between similar systems is around $250:

2x8Gb DDR3-1866, Asrock z97 Killer, i7-4770k $800
4x4Gb DDR4-2133, ASrock X99X Killer, i7-5820K $1050

And besides what has already been mentioned the X99 version of the motherboard also includes:
Dual NIC (Intel+Killer)
PCIe Mini Card
M.2 32Gb/s vs 10Gb/s
6 USB 3.0 vs 4
1 eSATA port

Similar here, the difference is quite significant, I could almost buy another 4790 for the difference in prices. The point is the prices are practically as far apart as they have always been between HEDT and regular i7 due to RAM prices which negates how much cheaper 5820K is compared to both 3930K and 4930K. People only look at the CPU prices and think they are similar in price while in fact they as similar as they have been since 3930k.
It's like saying 970 and 980 are the same price because what is 200$....
ps. cheapest 4790K in here 1325 cheapest 5820K 1515, probably due to volume. Almost 15% price difference for the CPU. MSRP isn't everything.
Prices in PLN

 

[tential]

Apparently you are struggling with the concept of 'value-add'.

-4790k is a 4C part
-5820k is a 6C part with a better platform (X99); $200 higher
-5930k is the same as the 5820k with more PCIe lanes; $400 higher

For me, the additional $200 over the 5820k provided me no value. If 6C provides no more value than 4C, why would you get that? I would argue that the 5930k is the most niche 2011-3 CPU as it only makes sense if 8C isn't needed BUT more PCIe lanes are required vs a 5820k.

At most we're talkign $150-200. It doesn't break the bank so why not? You get more PCIe lanes, higher clocked product (it's not the same product so why say it is) and it's only $150-200 higher. If that breaks the bank then you shouldn't have even built the PC in the first place (your words not mine).

So again, why didn't YOU specifically get a 5930k since it's only a $150-200 difference and that's nothing. If that breaks the bank you should have never built your rig in the first place.

 

[BD2003]

Similar here, the difference is quite significant, I could almost buy another 4790 for the difference in prices. The point is the prices are practically as far apart as they have always been between HEDT and regular i7 due to RAM prices which negates how much cheaper 5820K is compared to both 3930K and 4930K. People only look at the CPU prices and think they are similar in price while in fact they as similar as they have been since 3930k.
It's like saying 970 and 980 are the same price because what is 200$....
ps. cheapest 4790K in here 1325 cheapest 5820K 1515, probably due to volume. Almost 15% price difference for the CPU. MSRP isn't everything.
Prices in PLN

The difference in the price of the entire platform is still significant, but you get so much more for making that leap though.