Whoa! New type of space drive discovered

[Ichinisan]

No this is for the transit spacecraft. Any landers for Mars would have their own descent and ascent propulsion systems. As for decelerating for Mars orbit You probably would just use the ion drive propulsion starting about halfway to Mars or you could bring some chemical rockets with and fire them up when you are close to Mars. You probably will not have to decelerate all of the way as the gravity of Mars can capture you and put you in the Mars orbit to stay until you need to leave. It is also possible to have unmanned cargo ships full of fuel, volatiles, and food waiting in Mars orbit from which your spacecraft can resupply.

Taking conventional chemical rockets along to use for deceleration would increase mass significantly and the ion drive would take significantly longer to reach the same speed it would without the extra mass.

I guess the only practical thing is to calculate that at least half of the ion drive phase would be for deceleration. In fact, possibly more than half if you use chemical rockets for initial acceleration...

 

[SMOGZINN]

Um, aren't most inventions this way? Santa certainly didn't bring them about.

No. Most inventions are new combinations of well understood processes.
This is a invention that uses a never before theorized process.

One is like someone showing you that if you add peanut butter and jelly together they make a pretty yummy sandwich and the other is like someone telling you that if you smash moon rocks against meteorite fragments they release a delicious bisque.

 

[Jaepheth]

I remember reading about these things a few years ago.

My response at the time was "Prove it."

Now my response is to smile, steeple my fingers, lean in and say, "Prove it harder."

 

[norseamd]

Taking conventional chemical rockets along to use for deceleration would increase mass significantly and the ion drive would take significantly longer to reach the same speed it would without the extra mass. I guess the only practical thing is to calculate that at least half of the ion drive phase would be for deceleration. In fact, possibly more than half if you use chemical rockets for initial acceleration...

Exactly why I am hesitant to bring them along. In fact just yesterday I was assuming that you would fill them back up to blast off towards Earth but now I wonder if you could not just have some chemical booster rockets waiting for you at Mars.

And yes slowing down with ion drive propulsion would mean that at least half of the phase would be for deceleration but due to needing to align yourself with the orbit of Mars for orbital capture you would not need to use your propulsion to come to a complete stop.

 

[Markbnj]

More on this in Wired today:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-08/07/10-qs-about-nasa-impossible-drive

Edit: this seems interesting...

Equally significantly, reversing the orientation of the drive reversed the thrust.

Edit2: finished reading and... damn this is pretty exciting.

 

[ViperXX]

More on this in Wired today:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-08/07/10-qs-about-nasa-impossible-drive

Edit: this seems interesting...



Edit2: finished reading and... damn this is pretty exciting.

Yes it is!

 

[justin4pack]

Also pretty excited for the hoverboards....that's what your talking about right? Screw you Marty!

 

[Markbnj]

Also pretty excited for the hoverboards....that's what your talking about right? Screw you Marty!

I didn't actually get that bit about the hoverboard not needing power to hold you up the same way that a chair doesn't need power to hold you up. Someone will have to explain that one to me.

 

[Franz316]

Ha, I love it. It works, but it is not known how or why it works. Is that a correct summation?

The travel time to Mars on the upgraded version is really impressive. Getting a 2mw nuclear device may prove to be tough though. A comparable solar array would be very big but serve the same purpose I would assume. For reference, the ISS has an 84 kilowatt array. This could be really big for space travel if the tests continue to scale as well as the projections.

Science, f'k yeah!

 

[Fritzo]

Me driving to work in 10 years:

 

[Markbnj]

Ha, I love it. It works, but it is not known how or why it works. Is that a correct summation?

The travel time to Mars on the upgraded version is really impressive. Getting a 2mw nuclear device may prove to be tough though. A comparable solar array would be very big but serve the same purpose I would assume. For reference, the ISS has an 84 kilowatt array. This could be really big for space travel if the tests continue to scale as well as the projections.

Science, f'k yeah!

As soon as you can afford to accelerate constantly because the limit is no longer the amount of reaction mass you can carry, then you can zoom around the solar system pretty much at will. Gone are the Hohmann Transfer Orbits we use to coast from planet to planet because we can't afford a powered trajectory.

It would be utterly revolutionary if true.

 

[dighn]

I remember that antigravity claim mentioned in the OP, which is why I'm really skeptical about this. Awesome if true, but I'm not gonna let myself be excited over the possibilities that this thing would bring.

 

[Paratus]

Ha, I love it. It works, but it is not known how or why it works. Is that a correct summation?

The travel time to Mars on the upgraded version is really impressive. Getting a 2mw nuclear device may prove to be tough though. A comparable solar array would be very big but serve the same purpose I would assume. For reference, the ISS has an 84 kilowatt array. This could be really big for space travel if the tests continue to scale as well as the projections.

Science, f'k yeah!

The ISS has 8 - 31KW arrays, (at beginning of life). Our actual downstream loading is generally less than 84KW. We don't get all 248KW as a lot of the power is used to charge the batteries and some margin is reserved for failures. Max allowable loading is over 100KW although we never run that high.

A new vehicle using more modern arrays, (the ISS arrays were developed in the 80's), could generate probably twice as much for the same size array. Plus a Mars vehicle wouldn't need to charge batteries once outside of Earth Orbit so all power generated could go to vehicle systems.

That being said these types of solar arrays are very fragile. We tore one redeploying several years ago.

Nuclear would be a better way to go. Both the Russians and the USAF have launched small reactors in the past. Bush also tried to have us develop a 100KW reactor back in 05 for the cancelled Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter mission.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well congrats!

I seem to remember some restriction on reactors in space. Anyone who knows more please share.

 

[norseamd]

Well congrats! I seem to remember some restriction on reactors in space. Anyone who knows more please share.

Political or technical?

 

[Paratus]

Well congrats!

I seem to remember some restriction on reactors in space. Anyone who knows more please share.

Congrats? For tearing an array?D:

The Russians crashed one of their reactors into Canada if I remember correctly.

Edit: Found it:

Kosmos 954

Kosmos 954 (Russian: Космос 954) was a reconnaissance satellite launched by the Soviet Union in 1977. A malfunction prevented safe separation of its onboard nuclear reactor; when the satellite reentered the Earth's atmosphere the following year it scattered radioactive debris over northern Canada, prompting an extensive cleanup operation.[1][2]

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Congrats? For tearing an array?D:

The Russians crashed one of their reactors into Canada if I remember correctly.

Edit: Found it:

Kosmos 954

I mean congrats on further verification.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Political or technical?

I'm thinking ABM treaty but could be completely wrong of course.

 

[Paratus]

I mean congrats on further verification.

Gotcha.
It's exciting if it continues to check out.

The 20+ page paper is out there and makes for interesting reading.

 

[Phoenix86]

More on this in Wired today:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-08/07/10-qs-about-nasa-impossible-drive

Edit: this seems interesting...



Edit2: finished reading and... damn this is pretty exciting.

Just finished it, good read. Hopefully the top side is realized.

A less conservative projection has an advanced drive developing ten times as much thrust for the same power -- this cuts the transit time to Mars to 28 days, and can generally fly around the solar system at will, a true Nasa dream machine.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just finished it, good read. Hopefully the top side is realized.

A less conservative projection has an advanced drive developing ten times as much thrust for the same power -- this cuts the transit time to Mars to 28 days, and can generally fly around the solar system at will, a true Nasa dream machine.

If 28 days gets us to Mars, how much longer would it take to get to Pluto? Anyone know how to figure that out?

 

[Paratus]

If 28 days gets us to Mars, how much longer would it take to get to Pluto? Anyone know how to figure that out?

The paper didn't say anything about Pluto but with the more conservative .4N/kW 90T vessel with a 2 MW reactor 270 days to Saturn.

My guess is with 4N/kW number the 28 days to Mars uses the trip would be on the order of 120 days to Saturn.

You could probably do Alpha Centauri in a few decades at a significant fraction of C if this works.

 

[norseamd]

I'm thinking ABM treaty but could be completely wrong of course.

Not sure. But there is a huge fuss about launching any nuclear material into orbit because it could crash and shit radioactive material everywhere.

 

[disappoint]

You could probably do Alpha Centauri in a few decades at a significant fraction of C if this works.

Are you joking or smoking? What do you do at NASA? Sweep the floors?

 

[Ichinisan]

Are you joking or smoking? What do you do at NASA? Sweep the floors?

What was wrong with his statement? "Significant" doesn't mean "majority." A constantly-accelerating drive would be able to go pretty damn fast. I think there'd have to be a really long-lasting power supply though.