Who is the third greatest mass murderer of all time?

[Cogman]

He is, as much as Hitler's Dad is responsible for Hitler.

Wait, Wait, Wait. Are you seriously arguing that Hitler's Dad was a worse person than Hitler? What about Hitlers Grandpa, He must be one of the worst people in existence!

Better hope none of your kids (if you have any) does anything bad. After, all, you wouldn't want to get your evilness status elevated higher than hitlers.

Heck, by that token, the first homosapians were absolutely the most evil creatures ever to walk the face of the earth. After all, there would be no murder without them.

 

[Malak]

Well you see I'd have to disagree with you there, when you instil a though process in someones mind, changing their very nature, you are responsible for what you create. While "orders" are to be undertaken, and so you can ultimately argue that the person who follows those orders is responsible, if you cause a change in a person that results in action you are indirectly responsible. For example if you are raised as a killer, with no ethics or morality innate, then the person that raised you is indirectly or directly some would argue responsible for those you kill.

But you are assuming the parents did that. I was raised in a military home, my dad a war hero. I am totally against war. Solve that one.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

What is it with Americans and Communism?

The british were on their side on the issue IIRC.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I would argue that Jesus effectively gave the order by signing himself up as "the one true..."

I dislike religion as much as the next guy, but I don't think you can blame Jesus Christ for idiots carrying out violence in his name... especially when he is supposed to have preached non-violence. If I start killing in the name of Ghandi or MLK, who's fault is it?

 

[Cogman]

I dislike religion as much as the next guy, but I don't think you can Jesus Christ for idiots carrying out violence in his name... especially when he is supposed to have preached non-violence. If I start killing in the name of Ghandi or MLK, who's fault is it?

Gahndi of course.. It is the only logical step!

 

[moshquerade]

I dislike religion as much as the next guy, but I don't think you can Jesus Christ for idiots carrying out violence in his name... especially when he is supposed to have preached non-violence. If I start killing in the name of Ghandi or MLK, who's fault is it?

Thank you for that common sense post. :thumbsup:

 

[Malak]

I'm going to start killing in the name of neckbeard now.

 

[Jeeebus]

What is it with Americans and Communism?

Sounds like Commie talk to me...

 

[HAL9000]

Wait, Wait, Wait. Are you seriously arguing that Hitler's Dad was a worse person than Hitler? What about Hitlers Grandpa, He must be one of the worst people in existence!

Better hope none of your kids (if you have any) does anything bad. After, all, you wouldn't want to get your evilness status elevated higher than hitlers.

Heck, by that token, the first homosapians were absolutely the most evil creatures ever to walk the face of the earth. After all, there would be no murder without them.

I'm seriously not arguing that in the slightest, I'm just arguing they are indirectly responsible for his actions, obviously direct responsibility is paramount.

But you are assuming the parents did that. I was raised in a military home, my dad a war hero. I am totally against war. Solve that one.

I'm not assuming that, I'm merely arguing that one person can be responsible for another persons actions.

As per you, I would argue you are rebelling by being a pacifist.

I dislike religion as much as the next guy, but I don't think you can Jesus Christ for idiots carrying out violence in his name... especially when he is supposed to have preached non-violence. If I start killing in the name of Ghandi or MLK, who's fault is it?

Valid but when you start trying to convince people you are God, with an unquestionable morality, unless you right a book that describes what to do in every given situation you are causing trouble, because people will follow you to the letter, for that he is responsible.

 

[HAL9000]

Sounds like Commie talk to me...

Who's that...?

In any event, Communism in theory had promise, it could just never work in practice.

 

[nageov3t]

Jesus Christ. This is my honest answer, his life has caused the death of untold millions.

people are too quick to blame religion for what is more easily attributed to simple human malice and greed.

religion may have provided the cover, but in reality, most wars were rooted in issues of land/resources/politics.

 

[HAL9000]

I'm going to start killing in the name of neckbeard now.

I suppose it's as valid in killing the name of God since neither exist or ever have.

 

[Malak]

people are too quick to blame religion for what is more easily attributed to simple human malice and greed.

religion may have provided the cover, but in reality, most wars were rooted in issues of land/resources/politics.

And religion was an essential part to politics back in the dark ages.

 

[HAL9000]

people are too quick to blame religion for what is more easily attributed to simple human malice and greed.

religion may have provided the cover, but in reality, most wars were rooted in issues of land/resources/politics.

Very true, but you couple that with absolute moral authority, which religion provides and it kicks things off a lot easier.

 

[rasczak]

True, but then Hitler didn't exactly pull the trigger.

hitler gave the order. jesus never did that.

 

[HAL9000]

hitler gave the order. jesus never did that.

Asked an answered, but since you insist.

Jesus, prescribed absolute moral authority to his followers, making them in their minds superior, giving them a god given right to act as jesus taught. This caused issues, he may not have been as directly responsible but without his delusions of grandeur a lot of people would still be alive... :hmm: Maybe not still.

 

[nageov3t]

Very true, but you couple that with absolute moral authority, which religion provides and it kicks things off a lot easier.

I think that Kings and Emperors were a lot more likely to force the Church to agree with them than the other way around.

just look at Henry VIII for an example of what happened when the Church actually tried to stand in the way of a King doing whatever the hell he wanted to.

 

[Macamus Prime]

This sounds about right,... carry on humans.

 

[HAL9000]

I think that Kings and Emperors were a lot more likely to force the Church to agree with them than the other way around.

just look at Henry VIII for an example of what happened when the Church actually tried to stand in the way of a King doing whatever the hell he wanted to.

Very true, but neither would have happened, lives would have been saved, if there wasn't Christianity in the first place.

 

[HAL9000]

This sounds about right,... carry on humans.

I just googled carry on humans:

 

[SlowSpyder]

Very true, but you couple that with absolute moral authority, which religion provides and it kicks things off a lot easier.

The Romans had no problem killing people before becoming a Christian empire. As mentioned above, religion is more of a cover. It's just as easy to believe in your superior moral code because you are Roman, you are white, you are Muslim, you are smarter than the other people, etc. Take your pick really.

 

[Malak]

Asked an answered, but since you insist.

Jesus, prescribed absolute moral authority to his followers, making them in their minds superior, giving them a god given right to act as jesus taught. This caused issues, he may not have been as directly responsible but without his delusions of grandeur a lot of people would still be alive... :hmm: Maybe not still.

The people Jesus worked with were not the people that went around waging wars in God's name. Catholicism does many things explicitly forbidden by Jesus. It is inaccurate to say they did any killing because of Jesus, and your example of Hitler's father(doubly inaccurate) isn't even analogous because you claim the father raised the child to be that way, which is the opposite of Jesus who raised his people to not be that way.

And absolute moral authority? Again you are pointing at religions, not Jesus.

 

[Cogman]

I'm seriously not arguing that in the slightest, I'm just arguing they are indirectly responsible for his actions, obviously direct responsibility is paramount.

Your whole argument that Jesus Christ is responsible for more deaths than any other individual is absolutely wrong. If you say he is indirectly responsible, well, the first homosapians were indirectly responsible for ALL murder, as a result they would easily carry a higher count than Jesus ever could have (after all, all his deaths would go straight to them as well.)

On the other hand, if you say he is directly responsible, that is equally as wrong because he specifically taught non-violence.

Either way, what you said earlier is equally insane.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

If we are talking about people who actually killed people and not ordering people to kill them you have to rank the guys at the Concentration camps who pulled the trigger on the gas ovens hard to put a number on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
But the guy who dropped the A bomb has to rank as the most kills at one time.

They win hands down for largest insta-gibs ever.

I saw a documentary about the bombadier of the Enola Gay and they asked him how he felt about killing all those people and he didn't have any remorse for doing it and rightfully said he'd do it again.

 

[HAL9000]

The people Jesus worked with were not the people that went around waging wars in God's name. Catholicism does many things explicitly forbidden by Jesus. It is inaccurate to say they did any killing because of Jesus, and your example of Hitler's father(doubly inaccurate) isn't even analogous because you claim the father raised the child to be that way, which is the opposite of Jesus who raised his people to not be that way.

And absolute moral authority? Again you are pointing at religions, not Jesus.

You've misunderstood me. I have made two different arguments today.

The first: Jesus is responsible for the existence of Christianity. [As was hitlers dad responsible for hitlers existence]
The Second: People can be responsible for others actions through teaching or changing their though process.

I never claimed that Hitlers father raised hitler to be that way, you have extrapolated that from my second argument which had nothing to do with the first.

I am simply asserting that Jesus was responsible for creating Christianity.

The argument I made about raising someone to be a killer was simply to refute your point that no one is ever responsible for anyone else's actions.

Personally I believe that Hitler is responsible for his subordinates reactions, as I believe Jesus is responsible for his followers actions.