PC gaming isnt dying. And give me an example of a console game that is 4 hours long. Or several since you said "regularly".
PC gaming isnt dying. And give me an example of a console game that is 4 hours long. Or several since you said "regularly".
PC gaming isn't dying, but if you want to blame someone for it not being as prestigious as it was, blame Microsoft. MS was PC gamers biggest most powerful supporter until they stabbed us in the back with the Xbox. They've converted all their game studios to Xbox, and the ones that weren't suited to making console games they shutdown. They've bought PC developers and converted them to Xbox developers. They bribed or bullied companies into making Xbox exclusives, or at least timed exclusives. They've done everything they could to destroy PC gaming and get gamers to switch to the Xbox. Microsoft is now the biggest enemy of PC gamers. They stabbed PC gaming in the back multiple times, but it will recovery.
Um, no. Certainly not the first time thru, maybe after you know the game, and the sole purpose is to beat it as fast as possible. The time for someone to play thru the first time is far more than 4 hours.
Not to mention, his point was that console games can be beaten in 4 hours, when 3 out of the 5 you listed were for the PC.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
It was the Atari 2600 that started it all. It was the top selling console and their were hundreds of games for it.That is ultimately what caused the whole home gaming market to crash.
With the Atari 2600 anyone could make a game for it. Not just people with development kits, but anyone who could write the code, box it up, and sell it. The problem was there was not enough buyers. It was not uncommon at its peak for the 2600 to have 10 games coming out each day . Prices tumbled for games. I could walk in stores and games that once were $45 were now in bins for $2 each. Companies went bankrupt and the market was gone for a few years.
The big thing Nintendo did for the console market was to implement licensing. It made it so nobody could sell a game for the console without their permission. That meant they could control how fast games were released. They could make it so people did not have to choose between 10 games in a week, but 1 or 2.
The same thing is starting to happen again with consoles. The only difference is that MS,Nintendo,Sony are in charge of when games get released. Still they get a lot of pressure from publishers to put their product on the shelf.
Well, I dont, but that doesnt matter. Im willing to bet most people played those games more than 4-6 hours. Especially since 2 of them were big multiplayer games. There are more than 6 hours in cut scenes in MGS4."Short" games have been around since gaming started. Super Mario Brothers can be beaten in less than 6 minutes.
His "point" was silly, and I called him on it. You helped to prove me right, even if your times are to be believed, because half the games you listed are on PC and console, so thanks.
Dumac
Diamond Member
- Dec 31, 2005
- 9,391
- 1
- 0
I wasn't including cut scenes in MGS4, of course
CoD4 and GoW 1/2 have the appeal of multiplayer, as you said, which is why their shortness can be kind of forgiven.
I do feel like games are a bit short as of late, but maybe there were always so and I just didn't realize that? I usually only buy games that are either really long or have tons of multiplayer or replay value.
(for example, I didn't buy any of the games listed above except MGS4, which was long in a movie kind of way)
As far as the PC vs console kind of thing, shortness effects both markets. Console games aren't really generally shorter than PC games. If anything, I would say they are longer, due to RPGs available on the consoles that aren't on the PC. The most popular games on the PC (excluding MMOs) are most likely cross-platform anyway. I don't remember the last decent PC exclusive game. Most were developed for the console first, with the console in mind, or, if we are lucky, simultaneously.
Some genre's I will most likely always play on PC (multiplayer FPS and RTS), but those genre's have been pretty stale as of late. Honestly, I haven't bought a PC game in a long time. They haven't offered anything worth getting. The last PC game I bought was probably Fallout 3, and to most people the console equivalent is just as good (I don't get how you can not be interested in mods).
What purpose does blaming serve? Its a reality we all have to deal with regardless who's to blame. Get used to multiplatform, its here to stay.
realizing this i no longer spend money for high end pc hardware, theres just no point when the console version has all the same A.I,models,audio,physics..etc.
realizing this i no longer spend money for high end pc hardware, theres just no point when the console version has all the same A.I,models,audio,physics..etc.
Dorkenstein
Diamond Member
- Jul 23, 2004
- 3,554
- 0
- 0
It's the fault of the publishers and game developers who jump ship to consoles as their primary platforms.
Maybe consoles sold a bit more than PC games, but PCs weren't far behind. But once consoles became the primary dev platforms and the PC didn't get the releases, got crappy releases, got the releases way later, or just had a game that was gimped for the PC because it was designed around a console, PC game sales really started to drop off. And it will only continue.
Best things that can happen for PC now:
Unified platform with the Xbox so that a PC game is an Xbox game but with higher graphics settings possible and...
Digital distribution, to let indie and truly original game designers put out stuff worthy of the PC. I'm looking at you, Penumbra.
Maybe consoles sold a bit more than PC games, but PCs weren't far behind. But once consoles became the primary dev platforms and the PC didn't get the releases, got crappy releases, got the releases way later, or just had a game that was gimped for the PC because it was designed around a console, PC game sales really started to drop off. And it will only continue.
Best things that can happen for PC now:
Unified platform with the Xbox so that a PC game is an Xbox game but with higher graphics settings possible and...
Digital distribution, to let indie and truly original game designers put out stuff worthy of the PC. I'm looking at you, Penumbra.
Dumac
Diamond Member
- Dec 31, 2005
- 9,391
- 1
- 0
Hmm...
Originally posted by: Dumac
I wasn't including cut scenes in MGS4, of course
The cutscenes were more around 6 or more hours long.
Also, I didn't say 4. I said between 4-6. MGS4 was closer to 6.
This is rather pointless to argue over. Regardless of the exact time, the games I listed had pretty short singleplayer offerings (cutscenes excluded for MGS4).
More serious gamers pc game and normal people tend to prefer console. Obviously there are more normal people then hardcore gamers. I have 4 friends that are really into gaming, they prefer pc games. I have a ton more that aren't super into games but all have consoles.
I think PC gaming was at its best and most popular when it was the ONLY way you could play all the cool online multiplayer games. There was a few years when you could only dream of goldeneye with friends across the world, but could easily boot up some UT and actually be able to do just that!
I agree. An effect of this is that seeing this larger market of "casual" gamers, developers jump ship for more higher profit.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
- 136
I think thats probably the final thought we should take from this thread and then stop the arguing.
PC gaming is not in decline like the OP suggested. Its HUGE, but people arent looking at all the right numbers. WoW accounts bring in a crapload more money than all console systems and game sales combined. Its kinda weird that most of PC gamings revenue is from one monthly service from one game, but right now thats the way it is.
Another big hunk comes from all those little 10 dollar and 15 dollar casual games that are pretty much only distributed online, and frankly I dont think all those independant publishers are sharing all their sales figures on a regular basis.
Whenever some "expert" looks at console vs. PC sales they always ignore those two venues, which also happen to be the biggest.
What we need in the current era of PC gaming is better diversity among the MMO's and much more in the casual gaming market. Something similar to the gazillions of NES games we saw 20 years ago. Most of them were very original, but they didnt always appeal to lots of people and eventually developers simplified their product lineup to instead get massive sales from few games. Casual game makers could get a little more complex and make some truly interesting games if they wanted to. PC gaming is still plenty ripe with customers, they just need to figure out what we want.
I'm going to give my perspective, since I've been a casual PC gamer for years, but recently bought a PS3. Before the PS3, my last console was an Atari 2600 (never had a Nintendo, Genesis, anything else).
I primarily bought a PS3 because my brother and I wanted to do some gaming online, and he already had one (bought for the blu-ray player). After playing with the PS3 for about a month now, I have to say that I'm really impressed with it. It's very easy for my brother and I to get online and have some Co-Op fun in RB6-V2. The bluetooth connection is awesome for chatting, and everything works very smoothly. I'm also impressed with the level "home entertainment" options built into the system, and what the Playstation store offers for downloadable games (I know it doesn't compare to XBox Live, but that's another discussion). Also, I gave up on NCAA football ever being released on the PC.
My brother and I tried some gaming online with our computers, but there were always issues. Either with the game settings, router settings, drivers, even just getting on the same team was problematic. It was just a pain. It's not that I don't know how to game online with a computer, I was a regular member on a squadron for IL-2 for a while, but trying to get someone who isn't as computer-savy to understand things like port-forwarding is trying.
For me, the hey-day of computer games were the fun flight and space seems, that got you personally involved in the action. Games like Aces of the Pacific, Wing Commander, X-wing series, Freespace, etc. (stuff you need to play with a joystick). However, the flight/space sim development has been on life support for a while. IL-2 while fun, was also getting a little too complex for me to want to put time in (I don't want to worry about varying engine mixture or prop angle), and it was a little sterile, the game never put you into character. Don't get me started on the complexity of Falcon 4.0.
The fact of the matter is, while I'll still get games on the PC, my primary gaming platform is now going to be the PS3. It's nice being able to just pop in a game, and play it from my recliner on a 46" screen. I don't have to worry about upgrading hardware, updating drivers, figuring out conflicts, etc. As I've gotten older, I just don't want to spend my time doing that stuff in order to play a game. Now imagine what those people go through who buy store-bought PCs with integrated graphics etc. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a casual gamer, I just want to play and the PS3 allows me to do that easily, even with my brother in another state. If fun flight/space sims come back for the PC, I'd be all over it, but I don't think that's going to happen because there's little to no money in it.
There's my 2 cents.
I primarily bought a PS3 because my brother and I wanted to do some gaming online, and he already had one (bought for the blu-ray player). After playing with the PS3 for about a month now, I have to say that I'm really impressed with it. It's very easy for my brother and I to get online and have some Co-Op fun in RB6-V2. The bluetooth connection is awesome for chatting, and everything works very smoothly. I'm also impressed with the level "home entertainment" options built into the system, and what the Playstation store offers for downloadable games (I know it doesn't compare to XBox Live, but that's another discussion). Also, I gave up on NCAA football ever being released on the PC.
My brother and I tried some gaming online with our computers, but there were always issues. Either with the game settings, router settings, drivers, even just getting on the same team was problematic. It was just a pain. It's not that I don't know how to game online with a computer, I was a regular member on a squadron for IL-2 for a while, but trying to get someone who isn't as computer-savy to understand things like port-forwarding is trying.
For me, the hey-day of computer games were the fun flight and space seems, that got you personally involved in the action. Games like Aces of the Pacific, Wing Commander, X-wing series, Freespace, etc. (stuff you need to play with a joystick). However, the flight/space sim development has been on life support for a while. IL-2 while fun, was also getting a little too complex for me to want to put time in (I don't want to worry about varying engine mixture or prop angle), and it was a little sterile, the game never put you into character. Don't get me started on the complexity of Falcon 4.0.
The fact of the matter is, while I'll still get games on the PC, my primary gaming platform is now going to be the PS3. It's nice being able to just pop in a game, and play it from my recliner on a 46" screen. I don't have to worry about upgrading hardware, updating drivers, figuring out conflicts, etc. As I've gotten older, I just don't want to spend my time doing that stuff in order to play a game. Now imagine what those people go through who buy store-bought PCs with integrated graphics etc. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm a casual gamer, I just want to play and the PS3 allows me to do that easily, even with my brother in another state. If fun flight/space sims come back for the PC, I'd be all over it, but I don't think that's going to happen because there's little to no money in it.
There's my 2 cents.
I'm guessing you've never played on Xbox Live. A lot of my friends complain about only being able to join games with certain people. The reason for this is the Xbox user is the one hosting the game. Do you have a router? If so, there a good chance you'll have problems connecting to certain friends. The only fix for this is to set the Xbox as DMZ, but you'll be lucky if you can find a single Xbox user who even knows what that means.
The Wizard - 1989
With all due respect, most of them are idiots. See if you can spend an hour on Xbox Live without being called a ***** or gay. Oh yeah and don't dare kill anyone or they'll give you negative rep. I don't even have a microphone and I still somehow have negative rep for offensive language. I've had to deal with a lot of idiots when I ran a Team Fortress Classic server, but even then I'm still blown away by the amount of stupidity on Xbox Live.
I'm going to assume that the PS3 online experience is better. The bare bones cost of the console is quite a bit higher, so that should filter out most of the 10 years old calling me a gay ***** because I killed them just one time.
coloumb
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 4,069
- 0
- 81
I think there are 3 issues which are contributing to the "decline" of pc gaming:
[1] DRM - how often have we heard lately how much of a pain in the ass it is to install or play a game due to DRM?
[2] Consoles have become better than most PC's [hardware, graphics, features, etc].
[3] Consoles are easier to use - just pop in the game and play. No need to worry about having to download beta video drivers so your new cool game runs a little bit smoother. No worries about if you've "installed" the game more than 3, 4, 5 times due to DRM limits. No worries about if the game will crash due to hardware conflicts [Overclocked system, bad memory, etc]
MOST people don't want to deal with the crap of having to get a PC game to work - they just want to be able to install the game and play.
I definately have to go with a combination of the first two, but I voted for unoriginal games.
Dave
Dave
I think he means relative to the average computer. A $100 video card will destroy an Xbox 360 in every test, but a computer without that video card will have problems doing the most basic things like play blu-ray movies.
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3430&p=5
That's one of my favorite Anandtech articles. It really shows how terrible most computers are.
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