Who is most to blame for the decline in PC gaming?

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: pennylane
Consoles are more convenient.

Another thing is that today's games are much shorter (easier) than they were in the past. Halo 3 from start to finish only takes about 5 hours. Ghostbusters felt a bit longer, so I'll guess maybe 8 hours if you include the unskippable talking parts. The short play time of these games makes them perfect for renting, but terrible for buying. I'm not aware of any way to rent PC games, so that puts game consoles at a huge advantage if throw away games are what you're into. Renting was also the reason me and my friends had game consoles as kids. I only owned 3 NES games (the mario games), but I'm familiar with most of the games reviewed by AVGN because I rented a different game almost every week.

The other part of why PC gaming is not as popular is because there was a time when PC games were much cheaper than console games. A Windows 95 game on a CD might be $50 or whatever, but a Super Nintendo game at the time could easily cost $80. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were $100 when they came out. The difference in costs were a lot more clear when the PS1 and N64 were the two main platforms. A new PS1 game was around $50 but a game for N64 was $80. Now that all of the consoles use CD/DVD/BRD, console games are a lot cheaper than they were when you were a kid, so the price advantage of PC games is long gone.

In any event, PC gaming is not dying. It's becoming less popular, but it will never go away. Even that doesn't bother me so much because I've owned unpopular systems in the past and have been satisfied with them. I had a Genesis instead of a Super Nintendo, and it was awesome. I even had the Sega 32X and I loved that console. Two of my friends had the Sega CD and that too was a great system despite the lack of games.

 

[Oyeve]

The gamers, but not for piracy, but for allowing it to happen.

 

[Gunbuster]

WoW more than anything else. It has turbo fscked the game buying landscape, as in the addicts don't buy any other games.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: pennylane
Consoles are more convenient.

Another thing is that today's games are much shorter (easier) than they were in the past. Halo 3 from start to finish only takes about 5 hours. Ghostbusters felt a bit longer, so I'll guess maybe 8 hours if you include the unskippable talking parts. The short play time of these games makes them perfect for renting, but terrible for buying. I'm not aware of any way to rent PC games, so that puts game consoles at a huge advantage if throw away games are what you're into. Renting was also the reason me and my friends had game consoles as kids. I only owned 3 NES games (the mario games), but I'm familiar with most of the games reviewed by AVGN because I rented a different game almost every week.

The other part of why PC gaming is not as popular is because there was a time when PC games were much cheaper than console games. A Windows 95 game on a CD might be $50 or whatever, but a Super Nintendo game at the time could easily cost $80. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were $100 when they came out. The difference in costs were a lot more clear when the PS1 and N64 were the two main platforms. A new PS1 game was around $50 but a game for N64 was $80. Now that all of the consoles use CD/DVD/BRD, console games are a lot cheaper than they were when you were a kid, so the price advantage of PC games is long gone.

In any event, PC gaming is not dying. It's becoming less popular, but it will never go away. Even that doesn't bother me so much because I've owned unpopular systems in the past and have been satisfied with them. I had a Genesis instead of a Super Nintendo, and it was awesome. I even had the Sega 32X and I loved that console. Two of my friends had the Sega CD and that too was a great system despite the lack of games.

Did you live in Beverly Hills or something?

When I was a wee whipper-snapper SNES games averaged about 35 bucks. (Some were 30, some were 40). Final Fantasy 2 was special because it debuted at 75 dollars, but dropped sharply after that. FF3 was normal price the day it came out.
Chrono and Mario RPG were 45-50 depending on where you got them, and they dropped quickly too.

 

[Golgatha]

Add an "all of the above" to the poll and I'll vote.

I think PC gaming is indeed declining in the quality of titles available. This is mainly due to a large portion of "PC" games being merely ports of console titles. Heck, I have two wired XBox 360 controllers because so many games support them and play better out of the box with them (e.g. Assassin's Creed, GRID, Prince of Persia).

I am afraid that PC only titles, which really take full advantage of the platform, are a dying breed.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: videogames101
About 100 million consoles have been sold this generation(1).

About 50% of the world's population has a computer in their home(2).



Clearly, the problem isn't selling the platform, but that too many PCs today don't include the necessary graphics cards to play modern games. So I blame consumers for allowing such crap PCs to be sold in such mass quantity. Console makers having nothing to do with it.






1. http://nexgenwars.com/

2. http://earthtrends.wri.org/sea...eme=4&variable_ID=1494

Fixed

 

[JackSpadesSI]

I am sick and tired of over-proud PC gamers calling console game-buyers "idiots" (or some variant thereof). Personally, I enjoy both forms of gaming very much, but I agree with the person who said that PC's glory years (late 1990s to early 2000s) are over. That's not to say that PC gaming is dead - there will never be a console that can play the current equivalent of a Crysis (graphically).

I lean mostly towards console gaming, but I'm no idiot. I built my own PC and I really enjoy desktops. In a heartbeat I'd play any game for the PC that made more sense to be played there. However, most recent games that I've enjoyed have been console-only or at least console-first. At the least, if it was a simultaneous release, the game was likely designed for the console so that's where it will play the best (optimized graphics and controls).

Should I "stick it to the man" by waiting to play Mass Effect six months later on the PC instead of day one on the Xbox 360? Should I have waited over seven months to play Grand Theft Auto IV on the PC instead of day one on the Xbox 360? Is it wrong to want to play Gears of War 1/2 or Halo 1/2/3? If you're too stuck up to admit console gaming can be very fun then you're missing out on a LOT of good gaming.

Now, I will say that I think game companies are pushing out a lot of short (gameplay-wise) crap - mostly movie tie-ins. And yes, those are mostly released on the consoles. Just because they're released there doesn't mean every console player snaps them up, though. I wouldn't touch most of those movie tie-ins with a ten-foot poll (poll vs. pole to mock OP).

I'm currently waiting for StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3... on the PC, of course.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I think it is console gamers first and the cost of hardware/complexity of it all second.
I is much easier to pay $300 for a console, pay $60 for a game, come home and start playing, than it is to pay $500 + for pc , $50 for a game, and then come home and spend two hours trying to figure out why the game isn't working, what serials you have to enter, and that your hardware isn't even good enough for the $50 game you just bought.



Then there is the comfort factor. I can't get my brother to see that sitting at a desk in front of a 22" monitor with mouse+keyboard is better for fps than his 52" LCD and him sitting in his recliner with wireless controller.

Remember the old days of DOS?..it was a lot harder for the average PC gamer back in those days to get a game running,since Win95 and onwards it has become a lot easier,gaming on decline I'm not sure about since I would say there are probably several factors ie more consoles that nowadays can even connect to the net,mobile phones etc...not to meantion piracy is probably bigger now then the old days,recession etc... I could go on but I don't think anybody really knows (including myself) how good or bad the PC gaming industry is doing,I will say I think they are running out of original ideas for PC gaming.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by: JackSpadesSI
I am sick and tired of over-proud PC gamers calling console game-buyers "idiots" (or some variant thereof). Personally, I enjoy both forms of gaming very much, but I agree with the person who said that PC's glory years (late 1990s to early 2000s) are over. That's not to say that PC gaming is dead - there will never be a console that can play the current equivalent of a Crysis (graphically).

I lean mostly towards console gaming, but I'm no idiot. I built my own PC and I really enjoy desktops. In a heartbeat I'd play any game for the PC that made more sense to be played there. However, most recent games that I've enjoyed have been console-only or at least console-first. At the least, if it was a simultaneous release, the game was likely designed for the console so that's where it will play the best (optimized graphics and controls).

Should I "stick it to the man" by waiting to play Mass Effect six months later on the PC instead of day one on the Xbox 360? Should I have waited over seven months to play Grand Theft Auto IV on the PC instead of day one on the Xbox 360? Is it wrong to want to play Gears of War 1/2 or Halo 1/2/3? If you're too stuck up to admit console gaming can be very fun then you're missing out on a LOT of good gaming.

Now, I will say that I think game companies are pushing out a lot of short (gameplay-wise) crap - mostly movie tie-ins. And yes, those are mostly released on the consoles. Just because they're released there doesn't mean every console player snaps them up, though. I wouldn't touch most of those movie tie-ins with a ten-foot poll (poll vs. pole to mock OP).

I'm currently waiting for StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3... on the PC, of course.

Nah they just mad

 

[gorcorps]

Its not just that the consoles are more convenient, it's mainly that PC gaming is now so INCONVENIENT. Driver issues, terribly optimized engines, DRM problems, upgrading to get the best graphics, etc... It's all this bullshit that finally drove me and my friends away from PC gaming. Don't blame consoles for how fucking awful PC games have been lately, blame the folks on the PC side who can't do their jobs and offer a solid, playable product.

 

[zerocool84]

Everyone needs to remember that Console gaming didn't take off until the PS2. That's when it really started to be mainstream so around 2000 is when it started to get popular. I will be a proud PC gamer for as long as I can but will still play consoles as well.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: gorcorps
Its not just that the consoles are more convenient, it's mainly that PC gaming is now so INCONVENIENT. Driver issues, terribly optimized engines, DRM problems, upgrading to get the best graphics, etc... It's all this bullshit that finally drove me and my friends away from PC gaming. Don't blame consoles for how fucking awful PC games have been lately, blame the folks on the PC side who can't do their jobs and offer a solid, playable product.

Its because devs would rather put in less effort and charge more money for a crappy console game that PC gaming sucks.
Why do they crank out easy console titles for more money? Because console players BUY crappy games for more money!

 

[Auryg]

My friends and I try to play games together on 360 - to take a line from Apple, 'it just works.' We try to do the same on PCs? Networking issues, mismatched patches, crashes, not to mention they don't all have gaming computers.

 

[skyofavalon]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Everyone needs to remember that Console gaming didn't take off until the PS2. That's when it really started to be mainstream so around 2000 is when it started to get popular. I will be a proud PC gamer for as long as I can but will still play consoles as well.

You need to replace PS2 with NES and 2000 with 1985

 

[Pelu]

Piracy is good because it increase the hardware sales....

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: gorcorps
Its not just that the consoles are more convenient, it's mainly that PC gaming is now so INCONVENIENT. Driver issues, terribly optimized engines, DRM problems, upgrading to get the best graphics, etc... It's all this bullshit that finally drove me and my friends away from PC gaming. Don't blame consoles for how fucking awful PC games have been lately, blame the folks on the PC side who can't do their jobs and offer a solid, playable product.

Its because devs would rather put in less effort and charge more money for a crappy console game that PC gaming sucks.
Why do they crank out easy console titles for more money? Because console players BUY crappy games for more money!

Does any PC gamer have an opinion on the matter that doesn't include an unfounded personal vendetta against console gamers?

Even during the hay days of PC gaming, consoles were fairly popular so what has changed since then? They still have consoles to deal with as always but now they're sucking ass in the PC market IMO. It's 110% the devs fault. They could make a decent PC only game like Crysis, but they don't because of either greed or laziness (or both) like you mentioned. But it certainly isn't the consolers' fault that devs are greedy and lazy, so point the finger where it belongs without bringing in the people who aren't directly responsible for the shitty PC times.

Console gamers sacrifice top visuals, modding ability, bigger multiplayer features, and decent FPS controls for convenience and a much lower cost. 2 different groups that are content with 2 different things. Why bicker about the gamers when the devs are shafting both of us? They're forcing consoles to deal with higher price and wonky gamepads, and they're forcing PC gamers to deal with DRM and piss poor optimization.

in short... DEVS ARE THE ENEMY, NOT THE GAMERS

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: JackSpadesSI
I am sick and tired of over-proud PC gamers calling console game-buyers "idiots" (or some variant thereof). Personally, I enjoy both forms of gaming very much

Both forms? You do realize a console is a PC? It's just a proprietary, non-upgradable one. That's the problem.

Originally posted by: Auryg
My friends and I try to play games together on 360 - to take a line from Apple, 'it just works.' We try to do the same on PCs? Networking issues, mismatched patches, crashes, not to mention they don't all have gaming computers.

I've never had much of a problem, but imagine how effortless your experiences would be if game developers, software developers and hardware manufacturers had spent the last 20 years working on improving the PC rather than padding their pockets by selling redundant hardware?

 

[ZzZGuy]

I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a decline in PC gaming as too many good games keep coming out for me to keep up.

 

[ELopes580]

Just a thought, but if PC gaming is going down... then why are ATI and nVidia selling all those high end video cards and to who?

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: skyofavalon

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Everyone needs to remember that Console gaming didn't take off until the PS2. That's when it really started to be mainstream so around 2000 is when it started to get popular. I will be a proud PC gamer for as long as I can but will still play consoles as well.

You need to replace PS2 with NES and 2000 with 1985

Umm console gaming was never as mainstream as is has been within the past 10yrs.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: gorcorps
Its not just that the consoles are more convenient, it's mainly that PC gaming is now so INCONVENIENT. Driver issues, terribly optimized engines, DRM problems, upgrading to get the best graphics, etc... It's all this bullshit that finally drove me and my friends away from PC gaming. Don't blame consoles for how fucking awful PC games have been lately, blame the folks on the PC side who can't do their jobs and offer a solid, playable product.

Its because devs would rather put in less effort and charge more money for a crappy console game that PC gaming sucks.
Why do they crank out easy console titles for more money? Because console players BUY crappy games for more money!

Does any PC gamer have an opinion on the matter that doesn't include an unfounded personal vendetta against console gamers?

Even during the hay days of PC gaming, consoles were fairly popular so what has changed since then? They still have consoles to deal with as always but now they're sucking ass in the PC market IMO. It's 110% the devs fault. They could make a decent PC only game like Crysis, but they don't because of either greed or laziness (or both) like you mentioned. But it certainly isn't the consolers' fault that devs are greedy and lazy, so point the finger where it belongs without bringing in the people who aren't directly responsible for the shitty PC times.

Console gamers sacrifice top visuals, modding ability, bigger multiplayer features, and decent FPS controls for convenience and a much lower cost. 2 different groups that are content with 2 different things. Why bicker about the gamers when the devs are shafting both of us? They're forcing consoles to deal with higher price and wonky gamepads, and they're forcing PC gamers to deal with DRM and piss poor optimization.

in short... DEVS ARE THE ENEMY, NOT THE GAMERS

DRM is not a factor to be honest IMHO since I have over 300 retail games and only one has ever given me any issues(Bioshock when online server was overloaded by too many users trying to activate ,took me two hours before I could validate and play).

I think hardware specs for gaming is a factor for a lot of casual gamers too,I know my brother prefers to play on his XBOX360 due to smoothness rather then choppyness of his poor laptop,a lot of people are tired of having to upgrade their PC/laptop all the time for gaming not to meantion software side, as you know with console its a set standard for a quite a time( no minimum hardware specs or software user side to worry about) and even backwards compatible for some games too when a new console is released,less hassle and easier route you could say.

Consoles have improved over the years hardware wise and when you consider how easy it is to game on them plus how cheap consoles are not surprising they are doing well.
I personally feel there is no one thing or real proof that PC gaming is on a serious decline,I still feel there's a market for both,down the road things might change and right now I feel its a up and down rollercoaster ride for PC sales/gaming....Consoles are here to stay and no doubt they have eaten into the PC market when you look at the strengths they have.

You can blame developers for some things but not everything,the quality of the games is down to them(I'm aware nowadays they all have time restraints and deadlines) however sales is a different story.

 

[alcoholbob]

Originally posted by: skyofavalon

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Everyone needs to remember that Console gaming didn't take off until the PS2. That's when it really started to be mainstream so around 2000 is when it started to get popular. I will be a proud PC gamer for as long as I can but will still play consoles as well.

You need to replace PS2 with NES and 2000 with 1985

The PSX outsold every video game system ever created up to that point. The playstation 2 outsold the PS1. The scale is unreal.

 

[Sk8rdd00]

I think there's plenty of blame to go around. As opposed to just laying the blame on one group or aspect of all this. Also you left Microsoft out of the list, who has a role in all of this too. Both Windows and Xbox is their platform after all.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

Originally posted by: skyofavalon

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Everyone needs to remember that Console gaming didn't take off until the PS2. That's when it really started to be mainstream so around 2000 is when it started to get popular. I will be a proud PC gamer for as long as I can but will still play consoles as well.

You need to replace PS2 with NES and 2000 with 1985

The PSX outsold every video game system ever created up to that point. The playstation 2 outsold the PS1. The scale is unreal.

Thats nice, but not relavant to the point at hand.

1st person said: Console gaming didnt take off until the PS2 and thats when it became mainstream. It only started to get popular around 2000.

All of those statements are false. It was the NES that started the console revolution and made home video gaming popular. It was also made mainstream at that time.

No one said the PS2 didn't sell lots of units.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
The answer I like isnt yet on your poll.
Its the gamers, but not pirates. Its Console gamers who purchase overpriced crap in massive quantities. I dont blame developers and publishers for pushing expensive garbage. I blame the dumb console people for buying it.

--------

PC gamers dont put up with overpriced crap, and certainly not in large volumes.

I agree. For the poll, I'd like to answer:

All of the above except for: Console makers, for making such compelling and popular products that no one sees the point in PC gaming anymore.