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Who better defined the nineties

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Originally posted by: CptObvious
Nirvana, definitely. Although R.E.M. had a big influence in the 80s in forming alternative rock.
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Yep, REM is more of an 80's band.....
 
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Originally posted by: Dubb
I think if you could name one band that defined the 90s, it'd be pearl jam.

but between the two...

REM maybe didn't define the 90s as much, but I think their influence on 90s culture would be greater than Nirvana's. Grunge would have taken off on it's own, just another band (soundgarden, AIC, maybe pearl jam, even though they're more straight rock than what you typically call grunge) would have been pointed to as the forerunners.

REM:

Document (released in late 87 but still huge in the early 90s) for those of you without a clue this is the album with Its the end of the world on it.
out of time (losing my religion)
Automatic for the people (everybody hurts, man on the moon, sidewinder...)
Monster (what's the frequency, crush with eyeliner)
New adventures in Hi-fi (e-Bow, so fast so numb)
up (walk unafraid, daysleeper)

Pretty amazing string of pretty amazing albums that were influential all through the 90s. Anybody who played any form of rock & roll back then was shaped in some way by REM.
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A) Pearl Jam did not define the 90's. After Ten - an INCREIDBLE album, granted - their other albums didn't have nearly the appeal or influence. That one album was HUGE, sure, but it didn't have that one hit that would have broken into the MAINSTREAM.

B) Give me one logical reason why one of the other grunge bands of the times would have broken into the mainstream. Ten, Dirt, etc... all good albums, but Smells like Teen Spirit was a one-hit wonder type of success, but Nirvana was actually able to sustain that... do you know how rare that is? They turned that into 10 more hits, and now they had the ears of every kid in America (and beyond). I just don't think you understand what Smells Like Teen Spirit did. It was catchy, sure, and simple, definitely. But that's why it was so big and what made Nirvana so big. Of course the stoners loved it because it was just ANGRY AS HELL! But the key was that it somehow managed to draw in the preppy kids too. And the nerds. And the jocks. And just about everyone else.

I can't honestly explain what about it appealed to so many people, but I can tell you that Evenflow - as good as it was - didn't have it. Jeremy didn't even have it. Spoonman certainly didn't have it; heck, I wouldn't even call it grunge. None of them did. Maybe it was as simple as the name. Smells like teen spirit. When you read that name and then listen to the song, you assume that this angry, confusing, and at times subdued song was supposed to be reminiscent of what teens were feeling. Even though the lyrics didn't make sense to most people (including myself, that made it even more intriguing. Teens don't want someone telling them what they're feeling or trying to define them.

C) I think you need to read the OP again. "Who better defined the Nineties?" Just because REM influenced a lot of bands in the 90's, those bands weren't every mainstream. More importantly, grunge was a BIG movement in the 90's that influenced people. What is REM again? Whiny? Is that a music type? I love REM, don't get me wrong, but they didn't move people like grunge did in the 90's, and they didn't have a lot of other bands that brought that sound or that feeling with them.
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A) Tell you what, go pick up a copy of the "touring band 2000" DVD and look at the back. 28 songs, from all their albums up to that tour + a cover or two. Notice anything about the tracks? it's ALL hits. Ten was their breakthrough album, and every 90s album following:

Vs: debut at No.1
Vitology: debut at No.1
No code: debut at No. 1
yeild: hit No. 2

but hey, whatever, if you say so. NOT. (get it? 90s humor. I kill me.)

B) A number of other grunge bands DID break into the mainstream. The scene in seattle wasn't nirvana alone - it was lots of bands, and it was happening well before the 90s. I hate to break it to you, but a big part of it was the industry, and they were looking for something new to market. If it hadn't of been nirvana, it would have been someone else getting the hype. I do fully well understand what smells like teen spirit did. I have the MFSL release of nevermind. I was there, and part of it.

I just don't think you understand what a few years of pop success + one overdramaticized suicide is in comparison to a full decade of highly successful albums. (yes, the rip-off of your lame-ass insult was intentional)

My real point is that just about everything you've said about Nevermind and smells like teen spirit can basically be applied verbatim to Ten/Jeremy. The difference is that PJ followed it up with 8+ more years of hits. You like nirvana better, for you they defined the times, and that's fine. No need to be a pathetic ass because I have a different take on it than you do.

C) I think you need to read my post again. Specifically:

Originally posted by: Dubb

I think if you could name one band that defined the 90s, it'd be pearl jam.
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Which I hoped was obvious to imply that you really can't pick one band to define the times, but if you had to...

Nirvana, PJ, Smashing pumpkins, REM and dozens of others would all make my list. But if I had to pick one, I'd pick PJ because with them you cover more than just a few years of one genre in the early part of the decade.

Also re-read this part:

Originally posted by: Dubb

but between the two...

REM maybe didn't define the 90s as much...
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Meaning exactly what it says: between Nirvana and REM, I don't think REM defined the decade to the extent nirvana did, but their infuence is very much not a thing to be discounted. Which is what I made a case for.

and you go on to derride REM as: "Whiny? Is that a music type?" oh yeah, real objective of you. NOT. (hee hee, I did it again)

and one more thing: if grunge was such a big movement, and influenced so many people, where is it now? or for that matter, where is the influence post 1996?

You can point out a few things here and there. But it's not nearly as easy as pointing to the HUGE impact across a variety of styles over two and a half decades that REMs music has had.

in short, grunge for the most part is relegated to nostolgia. Most of REMs carreer, with few exceptions, is still relevant to what's going on in music now. That's been the case for nearly 20 years.

Your last paragraph doesn't make much sense, mainly due to poor sentence structure. But I'll say again that just because nirvana moved you more than REM or PJ, doesn't mean they aren't capable of moving people to an equal or greater capacity than nirvana.

cliffs:

1) I disagree on several points
2) learn to read
3) learn to write
4) I know this is largely subjective, but lets try to keep it as objective as possible, mmmkay?
 
Originally posted by: Ilmater

WTF are you talking about? Of course they were! Why else did they sell that many albums? People identified with their music. It's what they were feeling! I'm not saying all adults were going along with it, but the kids certainly were.

As for Radiohead, I honestly think they're a perfect band: I don't think they have a single bad song to their name. But they certainly weren't reflective of the whole mood of the 90's. They may have reflected the 90's, but Nirvana helped DEFINE the 90's.
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Heh, funny now that I read this, that that's your argument against radiohead...see my previous reply, you want "whole mood" of the ninties, I think you have to look beyond the few years nirvana had.

And, FWIW, Radiohead is one of the many bands that took a huge influence from REM.

Hell, Stipe was the one who got Thom to accept that he was a rock star.
 
Originally posted by: Pepsei
Originally posted by: Bryophyte
REM more influenced the music of the 80s than 90s. Nirvana was 90s.
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yep, kids these days don't know what they're talking about.
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Try looking deeper. Old farts these days don't know what they're talking about.
 
Originally posted by: Dubb
Originally posted by: Pepsei
Originally posted by: Bryophyte
REM more influenced the music of the 80s than 90s. Nirvana was 90s.
Click to expand...

yep, kids these days don't know what they're talking about.
Click to expand...

Try looking deeper. Old farts these days don't know what they're talking about.
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Yes, deep down, REM influenced bands in the 90s, but that as a result of the influence in the 80s. In that case, we could say that the Ramones and Neil Young influenced more of the nineties than either REM or Nirvana. But, they no more "define" the 90s than REM.

 
Originally posted by: jalaram
Originally posted by: Dubb
Originally posted by: Pepsei
Originally posted by: Bryophyte
REM more influenced the music of the 80s than 90s. Nirvana was 90s.
Click to expand...

yep, kids these days don't know what they're talking about.
Click to expand...

Try looking deeper. Old farts these days don't know what they're talking about.
Click to expand...

Yes, deep down, REM influenced bands in the 90s, but that as a result of the influence in the 80s. In that case, we could say that the Ramones and Neil Young influenced more of the nineties than either REM or Nirvana. But, they no more "define" the 90s than REM.
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My point was that all these people saying "REM was 80s, nirvana was 90s" are not looking close enough. REM's 90s music was very influential during the 90s (see my very first post), as much or moreso than their stuff from the 80s.

 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who better defined the nineties?
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Unfortunately it was those pissy little Boy Bands, Britney and Christina.
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yeah, 98 degrees, backstreet, nsync, et al. All this damn studio cheese coated crap.

OP: definitely Nirvana. Then again, I'm partial to both bands.
 
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