White house ready to drop public option.

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Maybe one day people will ask questions like:
Being without healthcare is potentially devastating. What can practically be done to mitigate losing a job and moving to another?

One of the biggest things i hate about the current system is people are tied to jobs they don't like or want because they need health care.

Just stop with your lies. Stop it. You are FREE to get your own health insurance and NOBODY will be denied treatment if they need it.

Stop the disinformation and lies. This thread is also reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I just hope whatever solution at this point includes something so people with preexisting conditions don't just die in the gutter or live with 200k of debt.

FEAR FEAR FEAR!!!

Maybe you could tell people that Obamacare would cover health care after the looming terrorist attacks to garner some support.

Maybe one day people will ask questions like:
Being without healthcare is potentially devastating. What can practically be done to mitigate losing a job and moving to another?

What can be done to prevent one from losing their homes and all they have in such circumstances?

How can we make changes improving coverage yet maintaining the integrity of provider care?

Is there a better system than we have yet seen? Could it be that government directed health care and the current system are not the way to go? Is it possible to create an extra-governmental body which is beholden to no party or corporation? Can we have a system guided by those willing to serve rather than by those driven by wealth or control? Why have we not seriously entertained some such idea?

We're caught in a self made dichotomy and have substituted dogma for creativity. We fail because we act in ways that guarantee it.

:thumbsup: A rare voice of reason in a debate pretty much littered with fear mongering and ideological hackery. I'd like to see congress put together a bi-partisan panel of experts. Give each party a few "no questions asked removals" when forming the committee so neither side can whine about the committee, then let them get together and think through the issues for 6 months or so. After 6 months, come back with an actual plan that can stand some scrutiny, a plan that doesn't have to be 1000 pages and voted on in a hidden session overnight or some other crap like that. Then, we might get somewhere.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

It's called personal responsibility, Democrats haven't heard of it.

QFT. Look at the inhabitants of inner city public housing and the Democrats who provided it. Utter failure.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Maybe one day people will ask questions like:
Being without healthcare is potentially devastating. What can practically be done to mitigate losing a job and moving to another?

One solution is to buy your own health insurance and then it doesn't matter what job you take.

Personally I think that government needs to DEREGULATE the market and allow competition across state lines. I also think that health insurance should be sold in periods of years, not for a single year...similar to term life insurance.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: her209
So now we get Government Sponsored Entities.

Sweet!!!

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac of Health Insurance......

.....because that worked out so well for the mortgage market!!!

Fannie and Freddie worked just fine for 40 years. Nor did they cause the market collapse. Only a moron completely ignorant of what transpired would think so. Oh but wait! this was just a convenient excuse for more partisan hackery from you. What was I thinking? Carry on!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

 

[OrByte]

this debate is almost as ugly as the abortion debate.

so the public option gets dropped and some sort of COMPROMISE is actually being worked on out of our government?

And people think this is a bad thing?

good god. Anything to bitch and moan about I suppose....

I take it back, this isn't a debate. From everything I see from the opposition lately this is a smear campaign first, debate second.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Maybe one day people will ask questions like:
Being without healthcare is potentially devastating. What can practically be done to mitigate losing a job and moving to another?

One of the biggest things i hate about the current system is people are tied to jobs they don't like or want because they need health care.

Just stop with your lies. Stop it. You are FREE to get your own health insurance and NOBODY will be denied treatment if they need it.

Stop the disinformation and lies. This thread is also reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.

How many times do I have to debunk this stupid lie of yours, spidey? :roll:

If I get my own health insurance, will the cost of it be tax free to me as it would be from an employer? NO.
If I get my own health insurance, will my employer be able to contribute to its cost, tax free to them, as it is if I get their health insurance? NO.

Basically, this country already has socialized healthcare... IF you get it from your employer or are elderly and on medicare. And as you wholeheartedly support and defend that system, that makes you a socialist in my book. Except you're the kind of socialist who likes socialism only when the feeding frenzy at the public trough is open to you but closed to others. Or IOW, fascism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Because the GOP, led by Palin, spread lies about it. WTF do you think I just said?
And that verbiage (written by Earl Blumenauer) was IMO one of the few good things about this whole health care reform idea. But you probably haven't a fscking clue what it was about except for Palin's "death panel" lies which you swallowed like a $20 dollar whore. You probably actually believe that it really is "choice" that in 49 out of the 50 states a terminally-ill person can be forced into heroic medical measures against their will and which can potentially bankrupt their family. Not to mention are the single biggest expense in the health care industry, and which most terminally-ill patients would refuse if given the choice in advance.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
its not a "few gop" Its all of the gop, all of the neocon talking heads, all of the health insurance lobbyist and it all resonates with people who think we are going to kill them, take their grandmothers and become Russia.

So what youre saying is, the minority actually has power?

/laughing my ass off

Are you pissed coz the shit didnt pass or that the GOP apperantly as a minority has more power than the Dems?

/laughing my ass off

wtf are you talking about? It has a little to do with the gop and a lot to do with the industry. The INDUSTRY of health insurance. The gop just jumped on board 20 years ago. The industry was able to get many dems to come on board as well and there you have it.

Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Thats what so fucking funny.

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Thats what so fucking funny.

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

I swear, the intellectual conservative is an extinct animal at this point. You're fscking morons absolutely incapable of any form of independent thought.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I'm not in favor of the public option (so I'm not sad to see it go), but in all my life I have never seen anything more Orwellian in actual practice in the politics of this country as this "death panel" bullshit. Well, and maybe this nonsense about how it's an open/free market that you could drop your employer's tax-free benefits and go use your after-tax income to buy your own health insurance coverage. WTF.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

they do. I never said they didn't.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

 

[SickBeast]

I don't think that the timing is right to be implementing public healthcare reform in the US. The economy is still weak, and the country is at war in two countries right now. Wait a few years and stay out of the next war, and then try for it. Fixing the economy and paying down the national debt should be the main focus of the government right now.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

they do. I never said they didn't.

No, you just conveniently left them out of your diatribe lol

its not a "few gop" Its all of the gop, all of the neocon talking heads, all of the health insurance lobbyist and it all resonates with people who think we are going to kill them, take their grandmothers and become Russia.

gop found
democrat 404

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

So wait... because you're morons enslaved to believing every single word of your party's propaganda machine, even when it is obviously and patently false, that the Dems' fault?

Oh yeah, personal responsibility indeed :roll:

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1


One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I understand WHAT the Dems were proposing, and to some extent I agree. What the Dems did (no surprise) is fuck up their marketing. They couldnt market or legislate their ideas out of a wet paper bag. hey need some SERIOUS PR work.

so, you dont believe it was a death panel?

I'm just trying to get a straight answer.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: blackangst1

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

so, you believe that there were death panels?

I'm not in favor of the public option (so I'm not sad to see it go), but in all my life I have never seen anything more Orwellian in actual practice in the politics of this country as this "death panel" bullshit. Well, and maybe this nonsense about how it's an open/free market that you could drop your employer's tax-free benefits and go use your after-tax income to buy your own health insurance coverage. WTF.

Yes we have consumers making rational decisions in response to irrational regulations. Health care should not be tied to employment, but because of govt regulation it is.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Why can't people JUST admit the current plan on the table is a BAD one? IF the plan is so good and perfect, why are the democrat themselves fighting over it. Also, IF the plan is a good one, the democrat shouldn't have the worry about the reelection if they pass it.

According to some *cough* its because of the GOP spreading lies

/lmao

Palin's "death panels" were not bald-faced lies? Oh wait, they clearly were. So what are you saying here?

Then WHY! did the senate bill drop the death panel verbage?

Thats what so fucking funny.

One week: Democrats: We dont have death panels!
Next week: Democrats: We have dropped the death panels!

I swear, the intellectual conservative is an extinct animal at this point. You're fscking morons absolutely incapable of any form of independent thought.

Am I wrong? uh, no. Thats exactly what they did and how they reacted.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I don't think that the timing is right to be implementing public healthcare reform in the US. The economy is still weak, and the country is at war in two countries right now. Wait a few years and stay out of the next war, and then try for it. Fixing the economy and paying down the national debt should be the main focus of the government right now.

I agree. And giving terminally patients the choice and option to opt out in advance of heroic end-of-life medical measures, the single biggest medical expense in this country, would have been a good place to start cutting costs.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

they do. I never said they didn't.

No, you just conveniently left them out of your diatribe lol

its not a "few gop" Its all of the gop, all of the neocon talking heads, all of the health insurance lobbyist and it all resonates with people who think we are going to kill them, take their grandmothers and become Russia.

gop found
democrat 404

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
The industry was able to get many dems to come on board as well and there you have it.

Oh I see OK. I forgot "the industry" doesnt have democrats in their pockets.

there. You even quoted me saying it yourself