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White House preparing draft national emergency order and identified $7B for wall

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soundforbjt said:
Have you heard that Mexicans have been stealing the concertina wire put up at the border to use at home as home security, Thanks Trump.
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Yep, is hilarious. Some government supplier is sitting pretty right now since we'll apparently keep paying to put it back up like morons.
 
SMOGZINN said:
They are, but they are a misleading statistic because they are being used to infer that there are more total illegal border crossings, when the exact opposite is true.



Before we can do anything we have to come to an agreement on what the problem is. So, what do you think it is?
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The problem is our border is too easy to cross. The solution, IMHO, is what I stated in post 400.
 
blackangst1 said:
There are no punitive measures out in place that weren't there before.
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This is incorrect. If you think the current US posture on the southern border is unchanged from how it was under Obama you have been duped. This is the sort of lie that Trump tried to pull with the family separation policy before, attempting to claim there was no change in policy. There were SOME separations before, but not a deliberate policy of zero tolerance explicitly designed to separate children from their families in order to deter immigration.

If we're going to fix the problem on the southern border we have to be clear eyed about why it's so much more of a problem now than before. Part of it is the number of refugees has increased, but the other part is that our government has implemented wildly ineffective, incompetent policy there for the last two years. We can't fix the number of refugees easily but we can at least try and put some adults in charge down there again.
 
SMOGZINN said:
They are, but they are a misleading statistic because they are being used to infer that there are more total illegal border crossings, when the exact opposite is true.



Before we can do anything we have to come to an agreement on what the problem is. So, what do you think it is?
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How do you know they're trying to infer that? You know their intentions? How? It clearly states families
 
blackangst1 said:
How do you know they're trying to infer that? You know their intentions? How? It clearly states families
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Why would the number of families be relevant as opposed to the number of arrests?

Just so we're all clear the bar at the far right here represents our current 'crisis'.

southwest-border-apprehensions-final.jpg


lol. It's such a comically transparent lie.
 
fskimospy said:
This is incorrect. If you think the current US posture on the southern border is unchanged from how it was under Obama you have been duped. This is the sort of lie that Trump tried to pull with the family separation policy before, attempting to claim there was no change in policy. There were SOME separations before, but not a deliberate policy of zero tolerance explicitly designed to separate children from their families in order to deter immigration.

If we're going to fix the problem on the southern border we have to be clear eyed about why it's so much more of a problem now than before. Part of it is the number of refugees has increased, but the other part is that our government has implemented wildly ineffective, incompetent policy there for the last two years. We can't fix the number of refugees easily but we can at least try and put some adults in charge down there again.
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I never said policy hasn't changed. I agree it has, for the better. I don't agree, however, with Trump's solution. I do agree it needs to be fixed, and we not only need to make it more difficult to enter illegally (like with a smart wall) but make it more difficult for those here illegally to work (by nationally implementing and enforcing eVerify).
 
fskimospy said:
Why would the number of families be relevant as opposed to the number of arrests?

Just so we're all clear the bar at the far right here represents our current 'crisis'.

southwest-border-apprehensions-final.jpg


lol. It's such a comically transparent lie.
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I'm agreeing with you for Christ's sake. There's no crisis. However, border patrol and ICE are at capacity
 
blackangst1 said:
The problem is our border is too easy to cross. The solution, IMHO, is what I stated in post 400.
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Then we disagree with the basic problem and we will not be able to come to a solution.
I think that it is all but impossible to make a border all that hard to cross, and not certain we even want to. I think the problems are that we treat the people that do cross badly, and that we encourage them to cross illegally instead of legally. I think we would solve this problem much better by simply making the border easier to cross legally.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Then we disagree with the basic problem and we will not be able to come to a solution.
I think that it is all but impossible to make a border all that hard to cross, and not certain we even want to. I think the problems are that we treat the people that do cross badly, and that we encourage them to cross illegally instead of legally. I think we would solve this problem much better by simply making the border easier to cross legally.
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I'm ok with agreeing to disagree
 
K1052 said:
If anyone actually wants to resolve the border issue they'd propose:

1) Ending the drug war
2) Re-implementing a vast guest worker program for Mexico/Central America
3) Drastically increasing economic and security assistance to Mexico/Central America while pressuring their Govs to reform
4) Fully legalizing the people already here as the minimal recognition of reality

Instead we're stuck talking about a crazy expensive wall that for all its utility might as well be made from literal bullshit.
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Doing those things requires the US to recognize the huge role it has played in creating the conditions that encourage people to immigrate here illegally. You think people want to take personal responsibility for that? Easier to just scream about brown people and vainly attempt to lock them out at the border.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Doing those things requires the US to recognize the huge role it has played in creating the conditions that encourage people to immigrate here illegally. You think people want to take personal responsibility for that? Easier to just scream about brown people and vainly attempt to lock them out at the border.
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I'd trade those brown people for every last Republican we've got.
 
K1052 said:
If anyone actually wants to resolve the border issue they'd propose:

1) Ending the drug war
2) Re-implementing a vast guest worker program for Mexico/Central America
3) Drastically increasing economic and security assistance to Mexico/Central America while pressuring their Govs to reform
4) Fully legalizing the people already here as the minimal recognition of reality

Instead we're stuck talking about a crazy expensive wall that for all its utility might as well be made from literal bullshit.
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Never! How dare you suggest a comprehensive set of honest answers! You'd solve the problem & the GOP would lose one of their mind fuck perma-issues!
 
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