• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

White folk in US dying faster than babies are born. /freakout

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
glenn1 said:
If you already believe in taxing "the rich" at confiscatory rates it's not much of a leap of logic to just forcing them to work involuntarily to maintain that tax income and/or production of desired goods.
Click to expand...

If you could build a better straw man I'm sure you would.
 
Bitek said:
Look what Germany and Sweden are doing for example.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-23/how-germany-is-defusing-a-demographic-time-bomb

After decades of low birth rates, Germany just posted their highest rate since 1973.

More $ assistance to parents (paid time off), low cost child care, free healthcare for kids.

Controlling education costs and giving higher levels of support would also help (ie, aid, not just loans.)

High cost of retirement is also a threat here.

You can't expect families with flat wages to pay ever more for childcare, education, healthcare and retirement and expect them to have lots of kids.

But we're a bunch of idiots who borrow more money to give to rich people, cut support for the masses, then try and keep out immigrants and think that will solve our problems.
Click to expand...

Well, yeh, but it satisfies greed at the top & conservatives always think they'll get there... until they don't. A lot of Trumpism is very confused backlash against that.
 
Mai72 said:
Seriously though...

Does it suprise you? People who have higher educations are the ones waiting, and when and if they have kids it's one maybe two tops. Poor(er) familes OTOH are having 3 plus kids.

They aren't too concerned with a fancy lifestyle and 3 week vacations at the shore. Anyway, it's going to be decades before we notice any changes to our society. By then, all on this forum will be either old or dead.
Click to expand...


There is a general trend between rising wealth and lower fertility.

There is also some evidence of a U-shaped curve where fertility begins to rise again after a certain level of wealth as families can easily afford housekeepers,nannies, education and other help that's still out of reach of dual income professionals.
 
Bitek said:
There is a general trend between rising wealth and lower fertility.

There is also some evidence of a U-shaped curve where fertility begins to rise again after a certain level of wealth as families can easily afford housekeepers,nannies, education and other help that's still out of reach of dual income professionals.
Click to expand...

Almost every doctor I know that is under 50 (and wants kids) has 3 kids, if not 4 or more.
 
glenn1 said:
If you already believe in taxing "the rich" at confiscatory rates it's not much of a leap of logic to just forcing them to work involuntarily to maintain that tax income and/or production of desired goods.
Click to expand...

High tax rates are meant to increase the velocity of money by flowing money towards consumers, not confiscate wealth. When the highest US tax rates were 94% that effective rate was in the 40s thanks to investment deductions, not far off from the nominal rate today. The rich were functionally just as rich, the difference is high tax rates created a vibrant economy where working class people had excellent purchasing power and thus were able to drive consumption without going into debt like they have to today.
 
compuwiz1 said:
When everyone becomes a bit "darker" will it be the end to racism?
Click to expand...

No, the groups will just be redefined. There are too many people who gain advantages and power through racial division for it to ever go away. And too many fearful idiots who are easily conned into hating the group that is "trying to supplant" them.
 
alcoholbob said:
High tax rates are meant to increase the velocity of money by flowing money towards consumers, not confiscate wealth. When the highest US tax rates were 94% that effective rate was in the 40s thanks to investment deductions, not far off from the nominal rate today. The rich were functionally just as rich, the difference is high tax rates created a vibrant economy where working class people had excellent purchasing power and thus were able to drive consumption without going into debt like they have to today.
Click to expand...
Shorter this:

Corporations, banks, and the rich who own and operate corporations and banks, always end up with the money.

High marginal tax rates with concurrent tax policies just make it more lucrative for corporations, banks, and the rich to let it pass through the hands of the rabble first.

There's a reason why the modern middle class was at its peak from the late 30s to the middle 70s.
 
alcoholbob said:
High tax rates are meant to increase the velocity of money by flowing money towards consumers, not confiscate wealth. When the highest US tax rates were 94% that effective rate was in the 40s thanks to investment deductions, not far off from the nominal rate today. The rich were functionally just as rich, the difference is high tax rates created a vibrant economy where working class people had excellent purchasing power and thus were able to drive consumption without going into debt like they have to today.
Click to expand...

That's not really true. The Rich take a much larger slice of the American pie than they did in 1980, due to the cumulative effects of taxing them at insufficient rates to prevent it. See table 6-

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update

After the recent GOP tax bill, their taxes will be even lower & they'll own an ever bigger portfolio to make even more money. And someday, when they crash the economy again, the govt will be so deep in debt that we won't be able to do what we did in 2008-2009. That's right. That's the GOP version of free market capitalism, free range rapacity & uncontrolled greed.
 
nickqt said:
Shorter this:

Corporations, banks, and the rich who own and operate corporations and banks, always end up with the money.

High marginal tax rates with concurrent tax policies just make it more lucrative for corporations, banks, and the rich to let it pass through the hands of the rabble first.

There's a reason why the modern middle class was at its peak from the late 30s to the middle 70s.
Click to expand...

A mistake that was allowed to happen and one that's in the process of being rectified.
 
Victorian Gray said:
A mistake that was allowed to happen and one that's in the process of being rectified.
Click to expand...
Is it? Show me evidence of that, here in the US.

The oligarchs have been firmly in charge for close to 60 years, and they're close to flipping this country from an oligarchy to an aristocracy.
 
nickqt said:
Is it? Show me evidence of that, here in the US.

The oligarchs have been firmly in charge for close to 60 years, and they're close to flipping this country from an oligarchy to an aristocracy.
Click to expand...

You may have misunderstood what I meant. *I* don't believe that it was a mistake. I believe that the American power elites saw/see it as a mistake and they are in the position to actually rectify that mistake even faster than they've been able to do since Reagan. During WW 2 and it's aftermath when the US was establishing itself as the dominant world power it was tolerated because it actually helped the process. With the 'end of history' a relatively strong middle and working class were seen as being no longer useful/needed (as well as potentially dangerous) and the paring down process has gradually picked up speed. It's now being pushed full on by President Voorhees. It also doesn't help that the hard/fascist right is in a resurgence all over the world. right now.
 
JSt0rm said:
no wonder they are trying to fuck with the census.
Click to expand...

The last (big C) Conservative govt. up here tried to fuck with the census as well and for many of the same reasons.

The response when the present (big L) Liberal govt. brought back the mandatory aspect and the long form version was the highest participation rate in history. Over 98%. I think that the general population was delivering a message of it's own.
 
Victorian Gray said:
You may have misunderstood what I meant. *I* don't believe that it was a mistake. I believe that the American power elites saw/see it as a mistake and they are in the position to actually rectify that mistake even faster than they've been able to do since Reagan. During WW 2 and it's aftermath when the US was establishing itself as the dominant world power it was tolerated because it actually helped the process. With the 'end of history' a relatively strong middle and working class were seen as being no longer useful/needed (as well as potentially dangerous) and the paring down process has gradually picked up speed. It's now being pushed full on by President Voorhees. It also doesn't help that the hard/fascist right is in a resurgence all over the world. right now.
Click to expand...

I guess I just took it as a "well, it was broken, but it's getting fixed" statement, which as an American here in America, I just don't see. Fucking Merrick Garland. It's still an uphill battle.
Victorian Gray said:
The last (big C) Conservative govt. up here tried to fuck with the census as well and for many of the same reasons.

The response when the present (big L) Liberal govt. brought back the mandatory aspect and the long form version was the highest participation rate in history. Over 98%. I think that the general population was delivering a message of it's own.
Click to expand...

I don't know when that happened, because as a classic "Murican, I don't know a whole lot about foreign elections...but did this happen while everyone had a smartphone, so that the voters we're staring down at a rectangle with pretty colors? Because pretty rectangles are part and parcel of this country's current electoral nightmare.
 
nickqt said:
I guess I just took it as a "well, it was broken, but it's getting fixed" statement, which as an American here in America, I just don't see. Fucking Merrick Garland. It's still an uphill battle.


I don't know when that happened, because as a classic "Murican, I don't know a whole lot about foreign elections...but did this happen while everyone had a smartphone, so that the voters we're staring down at a rectangle with pretty colors? Because pretty rectangles are part and parcel of this country's current electoral nightmare.
Click to expand...

The 1st census (the one I mentioned) after we turfed the Conservatives was 2016. The general population was pissed off and they showed it. Including using smart phones. 😉

This says a bit about what happened

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...e-for-census-says-a-lot-about-who-we-are.html
 
we only do census every 10 years. If they attack the numbers then they could hold power for 10 more years.
 
Noah Abrams said:
This is not a white issue. The birthrate overall has hit real low in America, and I had created a a thread on it recently

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/americas-coming-demographic-disaster.2546559/

The immigrants in America are also having fewer children. Hence the need to have new people come in from abroad.
Click to expand...

Seems to work the other way here.

Polish migrants to Britain not only have higher birth-rates than the resident Brits, but also higher than that of the Polish people who stayed in Poland.

Furthermore the high birth rate of immigrants has somehow (by some mysterious process) led to a rise in the birth rate of the already resident population (power of example, maybe?). There's no demographic crisis here - unless you are the Daily Mail, in which case you suffer some sort of psychic meltdown while freaking out about a possible fall in 'white non-Irish' population.

Personally I'd be quite happy to see the whole country reach the level of ethnic diversity of London (and the other major cities).

But I do have issues with the way EU freedom of movement operates. The way I see it, if you create a single multi-national, mobile, labour force, yet leave much of the regulation of that labour market at the level of the nation-state, you are shifting the clock back to the days before the state had any role in determining working conditions. It's going to cause conflicts as workers compete to drive down their own conditions.

I voted remain, but I don't trust the way the EU works. The treaties that function as a kind of EU constitution are hard to change in much the same way the US Constitution is, but they incorporate far more specific detail than the US equivalent does, and much of that detail incorporates neo-liberal principles. The EU is a long way from being 'socialist'. Its critics are flattering it when they call it that.
 
Noah Abrams said:
Yeah money isn’t the main reason for declining birth rates. If anything the affluent are the ones reproducing lot less. I know several couples both white and immigrants, quite rich, who have not yet have had kids. Who wants to change diapers when you could be having fun in Paris
Click to expand...

I'm in my late 40s and my wife is in her late 30s. We never intended to have kids and never will have them, as we just don't believe it is necessary. We live in a low cost-of-living area, make extremely good money, and go to Europe multiple times per year. We see no reason to change that.

Regarding the subject of this post, studies have shown that even immigrant birth rates drop to around our national birth rate within about one generation. This is happening all over the world as well, with fertility rates below replacement levels in much of the western world and declining birth rates in many other places. Governments have and will continue to try to incentivize having children, but it probably won't work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top