White Evangelicals, This is Why People Are Through With You

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
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What exactly did I confirm? Last I checked, automatically assuming things doesn't really mean anything. I merely said that I've known Evangelicals on the left and the right. Things may be different in the bible belt, but they don't represent everyone.

I'm not saying that your allegations are incorrect in a great many cases and in the links you provided. I'm not disagreeing with your anger and disgust in those who used their religion to justify heinous political positions. However, those people do not represent all of Evangelical Christianity.

Putting Evangelicalism in an "automatically assumed" box, defining the beliefs of those in that box, and ultimately blaming the box rather than the individuals you have placed there is rather analogous to the strategies used by those you oppose.
I think the data is pretty clear. We can't say all but we can definitely say the overwhelming majority.
What's really funny is HRC is actually like a white evangelical whilst DJT is not even a christian and those guys still stuck with DJT. Go figure
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
I don't know much about evangelicals, but my thought has been that they decided to change course this election, abandoning a "moral" candidate for one whom they believe can "drain the swamp".

When they voted for Trump over one of the establishment "moral" candidates I thought they clearly signaled their change. They all knew Trump was on his 3rd wife and had cheated on all of them. And I mean, jeesh, when Trump dropped the "F bomb" at a campaign rally without any negative repercussion, well I don't know how that can be ignored.

The above is why salacious stories about porn stars etc are all barking up the wrong tree. The evangelical group doesn't care. They didn't vote for a moral leader this time. They want some azz kicked in Washington DC. When you're hiring an "assassin" you don't pick the nice one or the most moral. You choose the one that's going to get the job done.

Fern

LOL so they voted in the devil himself. Somehow I doubt jesus would of voted for trump.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,874
5,726
136
When Trump was elected he had a near 80% approval rating from white evangelicals.

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I think the data is pretty clear. We can't say all but we can definitely say the overwhelming majority.
What's really funny is HRC is actually like a white evangelical whilst DJT is not even a christian and those guys still stuck with DJT. Go figure

Did I ever refute any of that? I'm speaking of the minority of individuals you are condemning when you issue blanketed allegations and presumptions that are not always true.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
Powerful words that expose just one aspect of the level of bat shit that is now the base of the GOP.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/01/24/white-evangelicals-people/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=John Pavlovitz

Dear White Evangelicals,

I need to tell you something: People have had it with you.

They’re done.

They want nothing to do with you any longer, and here’s why:

They see your hypocrisy, your inconsistency, your incredibly selective mercy, and your thinly veiled supremacy.

For eight years they watched you relentlessly demonize a black President; a man faithfully married for 26 years; a doting father and husband without a hint of moral scandal or the slightest whiff of infidelity.

They watched you deny his personal faith convictions, argue his birthplace, and assail his character—all without cause or evidence. They saw you brandish Scriptures to malign him and use the laziest of racial stereotypes in criticizing him.

And through it all, White Evangelicals—you never once suggested that God placed him where he was,
you never publicly offered prayers for him and his family,
you never welcomed him to your Christian Universities,
you never gave him the benefit of the doubt in any instance,
you never spoke of offering him forgiveness or mercy,
your evangelists never publicly thanked God for his leadership,
your pastors never took to the pulpit to offer solidarity with him,
you never made any effort to affirm his humanity or show the love of Jesus to him in any quantifiable measure.

You violently opposed him at every single turn—without offering a single ounce of the grace you claim as the heart of your faith tradition. You jettisoned Jesus as you dispensed damnation on him.

And yet today, you openly give a “mulligan” to a white Republican man so riddled with depravity, so littered with extramarital affairs, so unapologetically vile, with such a vast resume of moral filth—that the mind boggles.

And the change in you is unmistakable. It has been an astonishing conversion to behold: a being born again.

With him, you suddenly find religion.
With him, you’re now willing to offer full absolution.
With him, all is forgiven without repentance or admission.
With him you’re suddenly able to see some invisible, deeply buried heart.
With him, sin has become unimportant, compassion no longer a requirement.
With him, you see only Providence.

And White Evangelicals, all those people who have had it with you—they see it all clearly.

They recognize the toxic source of your inconsistency.

They see that pigmentation and party are your sole deities.
They see that you aren’t interested in perpetuating the love of God or emulating the heart of Jesus.
They see that you aren’t burdened to love the least, or to be agents of compassion, or to care for your Muslim, gay, African, female, or poor neighbors as yourself.
They see that all you’re really interested in doing, is making a God in your own ivory image and demanding that the world bow down to it.
They recognize this all about white, Republican Jesus—not dark-skinned Jesus of Nazareth.

And I know you don’t realize it, but you’re digging your own grave in these days; the grave of your very faith tradition.

Your willingness to align yourself with cruelty is a costly marriage. Yes, you’ve gained a Supreme Court seat, a few months with the Presidency as a mouthpiece, and the cheap high of temporary power—but you’ve lost a whole lot more.

You’ve lost an audience with millions of wise, decent, good-hearted, faithful people with eyes to see this ugliness.
You’ve lost any moral high ground or spiritual authority with a generation.
You’ve lost any semblance of Christlikeness.
You’ve lost the plot.
And most of all you’ve lost your soul.

I know it’s likely you’ll dismiss these words. The fact that you’ve even made your bed with such malevolence, shows how far gone you are and how insulated you are from the reality in front of you.

But I had to at least try to reach you. It’s what Jesus would do.

Maybe you need to read what he said again—if he still matters to you.

I imagine the same is true of the anti American anti President left wing socialists / communists.
People are tired of the pointless nitpicking and whining.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,314
1,214
126
I imagine the same is true of the anti American anti President left wing socialists / communists.
People are tired of the pointless nitpicking and whining.

Yea, what the people really want are the banks running America, the EPA disbanded. Yellowstone Park open for mining, tax giveaways (on credit) to the richest Americans, creationism taught in Public Schools, etc....
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Yea, what the people really want are the banks running America, the EPA disbanded. Yellowstone Park open for mining, tax giveaways (on credit) to the richest Americans, creationism taught in Public Schools, etc....

Be cool to make a alternate timeline movie if all that had happened where we would be.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
Yea, what the people really want are the banks running America, the EPA disbanded. Yellowstone Park open for mining, tax giveaways (on credit) to the richest Americans, creationism taught in Public Schools, etc....
Speak for yourself as to what you want. Let others speak for themselves.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,594
29,224
146
Did I ever refute any of that? I'm speaking of the minority of individuals you are condemning when you issue blanketed allegations and presumptions that are not always true.

The question is not to worry about offending the minority of tolerant, moral individuals that identify with this generally spiteful, selfish, greedy, bigoted group--but to ask why that minority continues to freely associate with and identify themselves as such people.

The minority is seldom the issue. It's the majority that are here pushing their agenda, and if you can't label a group based on how the vast majority of that group unmistakably identify themselves, then what is the point of demographics?

sorry, but my heart refuses to bleed for the "very fine" people in that minority that continue to party with such destructively awful humans.
 
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justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
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So arbitrary. Kind of should have felt this way all along about evangelicalism/religion in America. They were through with them in 2004, and now they're apparently through with them again. It's also selfish, ignoring the harm they cause themselves, their children, their communities, any politics local to them/removed from yourselves. It's the progressive way to focus on the believers instead of the beliefs, so they can say the same things every time a republican is elected. Progress!
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,050
7,978
136
I suppose it's not much different from generalisations about 'white people' or 'men' or 'white men'. After all, all those groups also voted disproportionately for Trump. People will always make slightly-unfair generalisations about groups that aren't disadvantaged ones, and those to whom those generalisations don't apply will continue to occasionally object to them. Does it really matter that much either way?

Out of interest, do non-Trumpian evangelicals feel themselves to be marginalised or disadvantaged due to their religion? Are Christians, of any variety, in any meaningful way lacking in power in the US?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,049
26,925
136
Without them we wouldn't have farcry 5.
Is the game any good? I liked Far Cry a lot. Far Cry 2 was lame. Far Cry 4 is okay but didn't hold my interest enough to finish. Who ever thought that people playing FPS games would want to take break from mowing down nazis, maoists, and rosacrucians and blowing helicopters out of the sky to exercise their crafty side is loopy.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,874
5,726
136
The question is not to worry about offending the minority of tolerant, moral individuals that identify with this generally spiteful, selfish, greedy, bigoted group--but to ask why that minority continues to freely associate with and identify themselves as such people.

The minority is seldom the issue. It's the majority that are here pushing their agenda, and if you can't label a group based on how the vast majority of that group unmistakably identify themselves, then what is the point of demographics?

sorry, but my heart refuses to bleed for the "very fine" people in that minority that continue to party with such destructively awful humans.

Evangelicals are a very loosely confederated people. This is not a specific denomination, where people associate with a singular multi-church hierarchy and ubiquitous doctrine. I have no desire to associate with people who voted for Trump and hated Obama , yet my religion falls under the same label. Should a label define me and those I associate with?

I'm not asking for anyone's heart to bleed. The primary point I am trying to make, is that when you make generalizations like this, you employ the same tactics as the opposition. You reduce yourself to their level, and undermine the credibility of having the better stance. The minority still have an important voice, but using bigotry and hypocrisy will only suppress their desire to use it.

I suppose it's not much different from generalisations about 'white people' or 'men' or 'white men'. After all, all those groups also voted disproportionately for Trump. People will always make slightly-unfair generalisations about groups that aren't disadvantaged ones, and those to whom those generalisations don't apply will continue to occasionally object to them. Does it really matter that much either way?

Out of interest, do non-Trumpian evangelicals feel themselves to be marginalised or disadvantaged due to their religion? Are Christians, of any variety, in any meaningful way lacking in power in the US?

It matters to those who feel their voice is not being heard. I would venture a guess that many liberal Christians feel quite powerless right now.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
Evangelicals are a very loosely confederated people. This is not a specific denomination, where people associate with a singular multi-church hierarchy and ubiquitous doctrine. I have no desire to associate with people who voted for Trump and hated Obama , yet my religion falls under the same label. Should a label define me and those I associate with?

I'm not asking for anyone's heart to bleed. The primary point I am trying to make, is that when you make generalizations like this, you employ the same tactics as the opposition. You reduce yourself to their level, and undermine the credibility of having the better stance. The minority still have an important voice, but using bigotry and hypocrisy will only suppress their desire to use it.



It matters to those who feel their voice is not being heard. I would venture a guess that many liberal Christians feel quite powerless right now.
Or you could recognize the origin of the label, realize the motivation for that label doesn't apply to you, and be equally disgusted with those it does apply to, particularly since their behavior is reflecting poorly on you. The problem with your argument is that it makes it impossible to confront a group that is guilty of bad behavior. What is the thresh hold before you can start to try to hold a group accountable? Do you need 80% engaged in destructive behavior? 90%? 99%? Chastising a group for the majority behavior is not bigotry nor hypocrisy. Yes, the minority still have a voice, and if they care about their organization, they should be using it to chastise those within their organization giving them the bad name, not those pointing out the bad behavior.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,056
27,785
136
It matters to those who feel their voice is not being heard. I would venture a guess that many liberal Christians feel quite powerless right now.
Then speak up. I didn't hear from many of them in Ala in special election
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,862
14,000
146
It matters to those who feel their voice is not being heard. I would venture a guess that many liberal Christians feel quite powerless right now.

Probably because you're yelling at the wrong people. If you, as the 20% minority of evangelicals who are not bat shit insane and do not support Trump stood up against, and took to the woodshed the 80% who are... I wouldn't have a problem.

To clarify, your problem is not that I lump you all together. It's that 80% of the people who call your religious ideology their own are bat shit insane.