White? Dont teach here. Op Updated to address false 'racist' labal

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RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
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t's also worth pointing out that slavery for Africans (and the necessary subhuman classification to justify it in the mid nineteenth century) lasted far longer in America

Its also worth pointing out that America is very young and African slave trade started during its small life span - indentured servitude "slavery" started from the very beginning of America and then it switched to African slaves as the "new item" - it also ended pretty quick as well - especially comparing it to the rest of the world... and please don't try to tell me it was worse in America - I covered that with Brazil.
 

RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
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None of this changes the fact that minorities and especially black people were considered sub-human for most of American History while whites were not, and the fact remains that many people still to this day consider black people to be inferior based on nothing but their skin color. White people have never had to deal with this in America no matter how much you posture and try to spin history.

No they were just inferior because of other reasons... but apples and oranges... I get it - black people had it SO much worse in comparison.
 
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Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
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Its also worth pointing out that America is very young and African slave trade started during its small life span - indentured servitude "slavery" started from the very beginning of America and then it switched to African slaves as the "new item" - it also ended pretty quick as well - especially comparing it to the rest of the world... and please don't try to tell me it was worse in America - I covered that with Brazil.

:rolleyes:

Try telling those black slaves that they have nothing to complain about, and that they should be happy their slavery "ended pretty quickly", especially compared to the rest of the world.

Heck, the way you're talking, they weren't slaves at all...just hired laborers.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
No they were just inferior because of other reasons... but apples and oranges... I get it - black people had it SO much worse in comparison.

Why did you quote me as saying that when Dank did to begin with ?

But never mind, I just don't appreciate people quoting my name and inserting words.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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I highly recommend you read this book:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
Here’s another link describing the life of the “indentured servants” – they were slaves.
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/02/24/american-capitalism-embraced-white-slave-black.html
From the article above:
“Ironically,” says Phillips, “black slaves, selling for roughly three times as much, often got better treatment because they were a lifetime investment.”[19]
(a lot of the time they died, their sentence added on to and continued to work until they died, the women sexually bred with the Africans for more pleasing colored mulato's in which this white indentured servant no longer has the right to her own child... call it by whatever term you like to make yourself feel better - but indentured servants were slaves)
And another link:
http://www.answers.com/topic/indentured-white-slaves-in-the-colonies-1770-by-william-eddis
From the article above:
[FONT=&quot]Negroes being a property for life, the death of slaves, in the prime of youth or strength, is a material loss to the proprietor; they are, therefore, almost in every instance, under more comfortable circumstances than the miserable European

Either way - there is no convincing people who are taught at an early age that in America - their slavery was unique and their experience unique and the worst treatment there ever was - that in fact - it wasn't.
[/FONT]
Dude, that's a nutter proggie site dedicated to promoting the idea that Republicans are attempting to usher in the new indentured servitude. Let's see what PBS, a mainstream liberal source, has to say on the matter.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/experience/legal/history.html
The legal standing of African Americans in North America has changed over time, varying according to historical period and place. During the earliest years of settlement, laws delineating the civil status of African laborers did not exist. Black workers seem to have occupied a social station similar to that of white European indentured servants who were contract-bound to their employers for designated periods.

Although their station was one of inferiority that left them vulnerable to mistreatment by masters, black men and women, especially in New Amsterdam, enjoyed certain privileges that would later be denied enslaved blacks in America. For instance, like white servants, black laborers could take their employers to court. Some, like Pedro Negretto and Manuel Rues who sued for unpaid wages, even won their cases. Documents also show that Dutch courts occasionally granted blacks freedom.

Black people in the New Netherlands occupied a spectrum of positions that ranged between slavery and freedom. The Dutch West India Company often gave half-freedom to elderly blacks. This practice benefited the company for whom older slaves were a liability rather than an asset. Additionally, half-free people were required to pay annual tributes to the company. Because half-freedom could not be inherited, the children of manumitted slaves remained bound to the master.

In 1662, Virginia legally recognized slavery as a hereditary, lifelong condition. Even before this statute appeared, however, many blacks were being held as slaves for life, and as black laborers gradually replaced white indentured servants as the principle source of agricultural labor during the second half of the seventeenth century, laws restricting the activities of Africans were being introduced, codifying slavery as a race-based system. South Carolina, for example, passed an Act for the Better Ordering and Governing of Negroes and Slaves in 1696. This comprehensive code outlined severe penalties for a variety of offenses committed by blacks and excused any white who caused the death of a slave while carrying out a punishment. The South Carolina act was based upon the slave codes of Barbados and became the prototype for other American colonies writing black oppression into law.

Virginia was the first colony to define the status of slaves in explicit legal terms. According to the colony's 1705 law, all blacks, mulattoes, and Native Americans, all non-Christian persons brought into the colonies as servants (even should they later convert to Christianity) were considered slaves. The law went on to state that all slaves "shall be held to be real estate." Such laws, in effect, put all power in the hands of the master.

Although enslaved men and women experienced the most severe ramifications of the law, free blacks also suffered under colonial government. Among the legal restrictions placed on free blacks was a 1717 Connecticut law that required aspiring black business owners to get official permission to open shop, and when Virginia law extended voting rights in 1721, it extended them only among free white men.
Note that while initially African slaves were treated as indentured servants and/or serfs, the latter being an unfree class virtually vanished by America's colonization, beginning in the very early eighteenth century slavery began to be legally distinguished from indentured servitude. This differentiation was uniformly in removing rights from enslaved Africans, and increasingly the differentiation was based on race and skin color. Enslaved Africans lost the right to sue in court, the right to give testimony in court, the right to be secure in their own bodies against rape, the right to limits on physical punishment. A white woman giving birth to a mixed race child saw that child bound for a term of service, typically twenty to thirty years; a black or mulatto giving birth to a mixed race child saw that child bound for its life. Kill your indentured servant and face severe legal penalties; kill your black slave and face, um, loss of your black slave, who under the law was no longer considered an unfree human but a subhuman. Note also that even before the laws were written differentiating slaves from indentured servants, owners had made the distinction. A non-black (including Chinese as well as whites) was purchased for a term of service; a black was purchased for eternity, and even before this was enshrined in law it was a custom.

I'm not arguing that the two classes didn't start off identical, or that individual white slaves did not have lives more miserable than the average African slave, or that slavery did not persist longer in other places, or that slavery was not a more equal opportunity abuser in other places. I'm arguing that the two institutions in the United States are simply not comparable in misery or effect, beginning around the start of the eighteenth century, so that by the time we were America rather than British colonies there was a huge difference. Even free blacks (who could properly be called Americans rather than Africans, although they did not enjoy full status until mid-twentieth century) suffered from quite significant legal disadvantages until mid-twentieth century. Blacks did not even win the right to equal respect in a courtroom - just simple equality of title, which costs absolutely no one a red cent and costs absolutely no one a job or imposes an inconvenience - until Mary Hamilton and the NAACP took Birmingham to SCOTUS in freakin' 1963.

I'm sure that having Irish blood, I have ancestors who were enslaved in all but name and possibly that. I'm even sure that having English blood, I have ancestors who were enslaved in all but name and possibly that. Whitfield (literally white field) isn't exactly a name that screams of the peerage, after all. I'm equally sure that having such ancestors puts me at absolutely no disadvantage compared to having grandparents who were legally barred from good educations and good jobs. My grandparents' success (or lack thereof) directly controls with what my parents started life, which directly influences what advantages my parents were able to give me, which directly influences what I am able to accomplish. Slavery of any name or stripe many generations back does not, but it's worth pointing out that when slavery ended, everything was not immediately reset. It's also worth pointing out that two generations after my ancestors were freed, they were largely indistinguishable from those not enslaved in America. The vast majority of black Americans after slavery did not have that luxury and were immediately identifiable (admittedly, sometimes wrongly) as descendents of slaves. As long as there were (and are) people willing to treat you differently, that's not a trivial distinction.

:rolleyes:

Try telling those black slaves that they have nothing to complain about, and that they should be happy their slavery "ended pretty quickly", especially compared to the rest of the world.

Heck, the way you're talking, they weren't slaves at all...just hired laborers.
Originally they were considered unfree laborers. That rapidly changed for the worse as owners wanted more work and more control.

And personally I see a huge difference between being told "I own you for thirty more years" and "I own you for a hundred more years and you should just be glad we aren't in Brazil." :D
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,355
32,982
136
I highly recommend you read this book:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
Here’s another link describing the life of the “indentured servants” – they were slaves.
http://www.politicususa.com/2013/02/24/american-capitalism-embraced-white-slave-black.html
From the article above:
“Ironically,” says Phillips, “black slaves, selling for roughly three times as much, often got better treatment because they were a lifetime investment.”[19]
(a lot of the time they died, their sentence added on to and continued to work until they died, the women sexually bred with the Africans for more pleasing colored mulato's in which this white indentured servant no longer has the right to her own child... call it by whatever term you like to make yourself feel better - but indentured servants were slaves)
And another link:
http://www.answers.com/topic/indentured-white-slaves-in-the-colonies-1770-by-william-eddis
From the article above:
[FONT=&quot]Negroes being a property for life, the death of slaves, in the prime of youth or strength, is a material loss to the proprietor; they are, therefore, almost in every instance, under more comfortable circumstances than the miserable European

Either way - there is no convincing people who are taught at an early age that in America - their slavery was unique and their experience unique and the worst treatment there ever was - that in fact - it wasn't.
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Hey, retard, it isn't about who was treated worse. Black people were not classified as human. Go digging through your history books for some examples of white people not being considered human. Until then, go fuck yourself.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Hey, retard, it isn't about who was treated worse. Black people were not classified as human. Go digging through your history books for some examples of white people not being considered human. Until then, go fuck yourself.

because one suffering is different in some ways from another doesn't mean it's invalid.

"When the English set out to conquer Ireland, and throughout that centuries-long failed process, a permanent feature was the portrayal of the Irish as less than fully human (the yardstick of full humanity being English ‘civilisation’). Never mind that the Irish had, prior to the attempted conquest by first the Normans and then the English, a fully developed social system including a very advanced and enlightened Brehon Law system, and a highly developed scholarly tradition – good enough to spread learning throughout Britain and continental Europe. For the conquest to succeed, the Irish had to be thought of as deviant, uncivilised and uncivilisable, child-like, and even simian (ape-like).


When Anglican clergyman, novelist, university professor and ‘christian socialist’ Charles Kingsley visited Sligo in 1860 he wrote “I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country. I don’t believe they are our fault. I believe … that they are happier, better, more comfortably fed and lodged under our rule than they ever were. But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours”."

https://theirishrepublic.wordpress.com/tag/sub-human/


978-0-299-18664-7-frontcover.jpg



WildBeast-hires.png
 

RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
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Why did you quote me as saying that when Dank did to begin with ? But never mind, I just don't appreciate people quoting my name and inserting words.

Sorry; it happens - I took it off your post is probably why. I'll change it.
 

RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
5
81
Try telling those black slaves that they have nothing to complain about, and that they should be happy their slavery "ended pretty quickly", especially compared to the rest of the world. Heck, the way you're talking, they weren't slaves at all...just hired laborers.

You're misunderstanding - what you are doing is the exact thing you are accusing me of doing - and that is trivializing a situation that was just as bad and yet in your mind it seems to be OKAY that it is forgotten and OKAY that it isn't in the history books and OKAY that it isn't mentioned... because oh - it wasn't that bad - not in comparison - which in reality - it WAS - and its OKAY that people gloss it over and ignore the reality of the situation in this case because they were white and we dubbed them indentured servants to make it sound nice.

EDIT: and because I'm white and claim to have a family history with slaves in it and that whites can understand the suffering in slavery and that this group of people should be recognized in our classrooms along with the African American slaves - I'm dubbed as trying to minimize the African American slavery aspect of it... sure, they suffered, but so did other races and they should be recognized and included when talking about American slavery.
 
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RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
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I'm equally sure that having such ancestors puts me at absolutely no disadvantage compared to having grandparents who were legally barred from good educations and good jobs.

AH - but that is a different matter than slavery all together isn't it. One of the problems is, everyone is grouping racism and segregation into the actual concept of slavery... but they are different things. Granted they did run side by side during the ending of slavery in America - but they are still separate things.
 
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RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
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why not just strive to treat everyone the same now and in the future?

yes, why not - except schools do not teach this way and society hasn't developed this far - you can tell that by the article alone. If it had - there would be no article and there would be no thread.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
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You're misunderstanding - what you are doing is the exact thing you are accusing me of doing - and that is trivializing a situation that was just as bad and yet in your mind it seems to be OKAY that it is forgotten and OKAY that it isn't in the history books and OKAY that it isn't mentioned... because oh - it wasn't that bad

What I am trivializing is your whitewashing of the slavery of Africans. Of course, we're not saying that Africans were the only ones enslaved...what we're saying is that they were less than human...even some scientists back then in the early 19th century were saying that they were "closer to apes" than other humans -- I don't recall people here in the States saying that about any other race.

You're more than welcome to prove me wrong, though.
EDIT: and because I'm white and claim to have a family history with slaves in it and that whites can understand the suffering in slavery and that this group of people should be recognized in our classrooms
I understand what you're saying. Do you think Africans are getting unfair recognition as the most ill-treated people in the history of the US? Or are you trying to absolve white slave-owners of the depth of inhumanity they brought on Africans-Americans?

This is NOT an insult to you, or a snarky remark...I'm just being frank.
 
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RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
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You're more than welcome to prove me wrong, though.

Someone already proved that they were claimed as such below... ah, but you said in the States specifically - but you and I both know if this was the mentality of even one person - many held the same view - and that includes those who held them as slaves in the states... I will repost it again for you though...
"When the English set out to conquer Ireland, and throughout that centuries-long failed process, a permanent feature was the portrayal of the Irish as less than fully human (the yardstick of full humanity being English ‘civilisation’). Never mind that the Irish had, prior to the attempted conquest by first the Normans and then the English, a fully developed social system including a very advanced and enlightened Brehon Law system, and a highly developed scholarly tradition – good enough to spread learning throughout Britain and continental Europe. For the conquest to succeed, the Irish had to be thought of as deviant, uncivilised and uncivilisable, child-like, and even simian (ape-like). When Anglican clergyman, novelist, university professor and ‘christian socialist’ Charles Kingsley visited Sligo in 1860 he wrote “I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country. I don’t believe they are our fault. I believe … that they are happier, better, more comfortably fed and lodged under our rule than they ever were. But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours”." https://theirishrepublic.wordpress.com/tag/sub-human/ Click this bar to view the full image. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 905x609. __________________ "A good end cannot sanctify evil means; nor must we ever do evil that good may come of it"
 
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RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
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Do you think Africans are getting unfair recognition as the most ill-treated people in the history of the US? Or are you trying to absolve white slave-owners of the depth of inhumanity they brought on Africans-Americans?

First, by white slave owners - are we talking about whites who owned slaves or whites who owned white slaves/ other races of slaves other than black? If we are talking about the former - more than whites owned slaves and statistically they were a small percentage of slave owners (which were of all races) and there were both terrible and more decent ones amongst the group. You should just group them into slave owners instead of calling them 'white'. If the later, no, I'm trying to get the world to recognize that slave-owners weren't just poor to African Americans but all slaves and the depth of inhumanity was also inflicted upon them - despite the color of their skin.

Actually, IMO, American Indians were the worst treated people in the history of the US... but that is just my opinion. After that, women have a fair running for second place.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
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Funny how Asian students are still kicking butts in schools without any of the whinings/complainings and "waaaaaaa....waaaaaaaa....we need more Asian teachers in schools or we are going to be sucky in schools and it will be all whiteys/Bush/Republicans/da man/system/<fill in the blank excuses>....waaaaaaaa".
 

RandomWords

Senior member
Jun 11, 2014
633
5
81
Funny how Asian students are still kicking butts in schools without any of the whinings/complainings and "waaaaaaa....waaaaaaaa....we need more Asian teachers in schools or we are going to be sucky in schools and it will be all whiteys/Bush/Republicans/da man/system/....waaaaaaaa". __________________

They also have a lower percentage of population that get on welfare at less than 2% of their population; less than whites even who are slightly above 2%; Hispanics at slightly under 4% and blacks at slightly over 11% of their total population.

They apply their energies to more fruitful pursuits while everyone else is bickering I guess.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,355
32,982
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because one suffering is different in some ways from another doesn't mean it's invalid.

"When the English set out to conquer Ireland, and throughout that centuries-long failed process, a permanent feature was the portrayal of the Irish as less than fully human (the yardstick of full humanity being English &#8216;civilisation&#8217;). Never mind that the Irish had, prior to the attempted conquest by first the Normans and then the English, a fully developed social system including a very advanced and enlightened Brehon Law system, and a highly developed scholarly tradition &#8211; good enough to spread learning throughout Britain and continental Europe. For the conquest to succeed, the Irish had to be thought of as deviant, uncivilised and uncivilisable, child-like, and even simian (ape-like).

I mean, even your example says that it is different from black people. He feels remorse for the Irish because they are white, whereas he does not feel the same for black people.

When Anglican clergyman, novelist, university professor and &#8216;christian socialist&#8217; Charles Kingsley visited Sligo in 1860 he wrote &#8220;I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country. I don&#8217;t believe they are our fault. I believe &#8230; that they are happier, better, more comfortably fed and lodged under our rule than they ever were. But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours&#8221;."

https://theirishrepublic.wordpress.com/tag/sub-human/


978-0-299-18664-7-frontcover.jpg



WildBeast-hires.png
Good example of a similar propaganda campaign. How successful was it? Were they able to basically convince the entire world's population that Irish people were subhuman the way it was basically universally accepted that black people were?
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,355
32,982
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Someone already proved that they were claimed as such below... ah, but you said in the States specifically - but you and I both know if this was the mentality of even one person - many held the same view - and that includes those who held them as slaves in the states... I will repost it again for you though...
Even that quote indicates that black people were lower life forms than uncivilized white people.