White? Dont teach here. Op Updated to address false 'racist' labal

[realibrad]

Pretty much all races were thought of back then as being sub white evolution. I was the belief that whites were the ultimate form of current evolution. Blacks were considered human, just not evolved on the same level.

 

[Svnla]

why not just strive to treat everyone the same now and in the future?

Everyone the same? Affirmative Action program at schools and work (Diversity/fill in the blank). Keep on dreaming.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Good example of a similar propaganda campaign. How successful was it? Were they able to basically convince the entire world's population that Irish people were subhuman the way it was basically universally accepted that black people were?

I answered this question:

"Go digging through your history books for some examples of white people not being considered human."

You wish to lean more, read a book.

 

[dank69]

I answered this question:

"Go digging through your history books for some examples of white people not being considered human."

You wish to lean more, read a book.

If my statement existed in a vacuum, you might really have something there.

 

[realibrad]

If my statement existed in a vacuum, you might really have something there.

hey, are you ever going to get to your point?

 

[dank69]

hey, are you ever going to get to your point?

He gave up. If you want to continue I'm more than happy to oblige. Heading home for the day now though...

 

[realibrad]

He gave up. If you want to continue I'm more than happy to oblige. Heading home for the day now though...

So far as i can tell, instead of making a statement, you are needlessly dragging out everything so as to make it take so long it wont be worth it to show that you are wrong.

So, just try this. List a linear step by step set of what happened, what you believe that means, and the conclusion you draw from it. I will then see if there is anything I disagree with and explain why.

Its a lot more quick than you spending 200 posts about why people use sarcasm.

 

[justoh]

No

 

[dank69]

So far as i can tell, instead of making a statement, you are needlessly dragging out everything so as to make it take so long it wont be worth it to show that you are wrong.

So, just try this. List a linear step by step set of what happened, what you believe that means, and the conclusion you draw from it. I will then see if there is anything I disagree with and explain why.

Its a lot more quick than you spending 200 posts about why people use sarcasm.

Fine, we'll try it the fast way again.

Protesters claim white person can't teach minority studies because they do not have enough experience being a minority.

Spungo wants to extend the logic to show it is false so he needs a comparable example of something he thinks black people do not have enough experience with.

The example Spungo comes up with is black people do not have enough experience with European History.

Spungo thinks the two statements "white people do not have enough experience being a minority" and "black people do not have enough experience with European history" are equal.

Spungo thinks that the lack of experience in both examples does not disqualify either group from teaching either subject.

Waggy agrees with Spungo.

Waggy wants to extend the logic even further, so he needs a comparable example of something he thinks black people do not have enough experience with.

The example Waggy comes up with is all black people do not have enough experience with any history other than Minority studies.

American history is not a subset of Minority studies, therefore the statement "fire every black history teacher (except for African-American, Latino and Southeast Asian studies)" includes firing every black American History teacher.

Waggy and Spungo both believe that white people do not have enough experience as a minority.

Waggy and Spungo both believe that does not disqualify white people from teaching Minority studies.

Waggy and Spungo both believe black people do not have enough experience with European History.

Waggy and Spungo both believe that does not disqualify black people from teaching European History.

Waggy believes black people do not have enough experience with all history except for Minority studies.

Waggy believes black people do not have enough experience with American History.

Waggy believes that does not disqualify black people from teaching American History.

I believe they both made a mistake comparing history with minority studies because they are not comparable.

 

[TerryMathews]

To me, the crux of this issue is do you have to have had previous life experience in a field to be an effective teacher/instructor for that field?

I would submit our education system is built on the assumption that not only is that not required, it is also not encouraged.

There is currently no provision in the US education system to issue teaching certificates based off work experience. If I ran a successful business for 30 years, I still am not qualified to teach business.

I would guess that 95% of teachers have no practical experience with the subjects they teach. Why should minority studies be different?

 

[fskimospy]

To me, the crux of this issue is do you have to have had previous life experience in a field to be an effective teacher/instructor for that field?

I would submit our education system is built on the assumption that not only is that not required, it is also not encouraged.

There is currently no provision in the US education system to issue teaching certificates based off work experience. If I ran a successful business for 30 years, I still am not qualified to teach business.

I would guess that 95% of teachers have no practical experience with the subjects they teach. Why should minority studies be different?

Teaching certifications are primarily based off of experience and training in teaching along with subject content. It's a teaching certification, not a business knowledge certification. They are two very different things.

I have issues with how we credential teachers, but I also take issue with the idea that because you had a successful business that such a thing would mean it would make you good at teaching anyone business, much less small children business. We've all met the guy who is great at his job and totally incapable of teaching anyone else what he does. This is particularly true in urban school districts.

 

[TerryMathews]

Teaching certifications are primarily based off of experience and training in teaching along with subject content. It's a teaching certification, not a business knowledge certification. They are two very different things.

I have issues with how we credential teachers, but I also take issue with the idea that because you had a successful business that such a thing would mean it would make you good at teaching anyone business, much less small children business. We've all met the guy who is great at his job and totally incapable of teaching anyone else what he does. This is particularly true in urban school districts.

So then do you agree that experience as a minority isn't a prerequisite to successfully teach minority studies, just as experience running a business isn't a prerequisite to successfully teach business administration?

As you said, its a teaching certification, not a knowledge certification.

 

[fskimospy]

So then do you agree that experience as a minority isn't a prerequisite to successfully teach minority studies, just as experience running a business isn't a prerequisite to successfully teach business administration?

As you said, its a teaching certification, not a knowledge certification.

I do agree! I said as much earlier in the thread.

 

[dank69]

I do agree! I said as much earlier in the thread.

This thread is about taking what someone says as meaning the opposite of what they said. Duh!

 

[Svnla]

Maybe if blacks and hispanics would concentrate more on how sucky they are in schools instead of worry about the color of the teachers, they would not be that sucky so bad. You know, like Asian students. I never hear them Asian students ever demand Asian teachers or else...and those Asian students are kicking butts in schools. Talk about sold out/Uncle Tom/not keep it real/not down with the people/not chilling/<fill in the blank nasty labels> those Asian studens (sarcastic).

 

[blake0812]

I hate this "white guilt" bullcrap, I mean seriously, why should I feel bad for the color of my skin? I never asked for it but I do the best that I can with what I have. White guilt is the reason we have cases like this, where racists can get away with whatever because of the race cards they play.

It's not a matter of race, it's a matter of the society they live in.

 

[Whiskey16]

Maybe if blacks and hispanics would concentrate more on how sucky they [blacks and Hispanics] are in schools instead of worry about the color of the teachers, they [blacks and Hispanics] would not be that sucky so bad.

'Dem thinking challenged darkies......eh?

Thank you for your stereotypical "Southerner 4ever!!!" view. How little things change.

Yet again, a forum member espousing generalised and race based supremacist and denigrating bigotry, for the win................

 

[werepossum]

AH - but that is a different matter than slavery all together isn't it. One of the problems is, everyone is grouping racism and segregation into the actual concept of slavery... but they are different things. Granted they did run side by side during the ending of slavery in America - but they are still separate things.

Agreed, they are different things, but for black Americans slavery became Jim Crow government discrimination. Government discrimination against, say, Jews or Irish was much more limited and therefore much less damaging.

why not just strive to treat everyone the same now and in the future?

That's an excellent plan just as long as we recognize that there is still a huge inequity in starting position between black and white. If you've been standing on my head my whole life and jump off, we don't have the same chance to win the rat race because I first have to dig myself out of the hole you put me in.

That said, I think smart ways to address this acknowledge that some whites also start buried and some blacks start with great advantages. Therefore smart remediation should be color blind - BUT it still has to address that existing average inequity. Things such as admitting to state university systems the top 10% of every high school work brilliantly. We also need to acknowledge that much of our existing problem today stems from the horrendous damage done by unintended consequences of sixties-era feel-good social programs - especially since ALL races are facing this problem, with blacks only leading because they started poorer on average and because such programs were tailored and sold to blacks in recognition of the effects of slavery and government discrimination.

To me, the crux of this issue is do you have to have had previous life experience in a field to be an effective teacher/instructor for that field?

I would submit our education system is built on the assumption that not only is that not required, it is also not encouraged.

There is currently no provision in the US education system to issue teaching certificates based off work experience. If I ran a successful business for 30 years, I still am not qualified to teach business.

I would guess that 95% of teachers have no practical experience with the subjects they teach. Why should minority studies be different?

I largely agree, but I think the point of these courses is to build self esteem. It's possible that the lesson learned from a white teacher might be "Jeez, we even need white people to tell us what it means to be black/Hispanic", in which case the course would be self-defeating. Problem is one would have to be familiar with the teacher and the students to judge that, but I can see the protesters' point and acknowledge that it might have some validity even if the teacher is great.

 

[blake0812]

'Dem thinking challenged darkies......eh?

Thank you for your stereotypical "Southerner 4ever!!!" view. How little things change.

Yet again, a forum member espousing generalised and race based supremacist and denigrating bigotry, for the win................

Are you saying that minorities aren't racist? We all are, whether we deny it or not, birds of a feather flock together.

 

[werepossum]

Maybe if blacks and hispanics would concentrate more on how sucky they are in schools instead of worry about the color of the teachers, they would not be that sucky so bad. You know, like Asian students. I never hear them Asian students ever demand Asian teachers or else...and those Asian students are kicking butts in schools. Talk about sold out/Uncle Tom/not keep it real/not down with the people/not chilling/<fill in the blank nasty labels> those Asian students (sarcastic).

That's true for whites too. It's not all cut and dried though. In my grandson's last school there were a LOT of Asian students, but they never appeared in sports. They are all kicking butt academically and they all took music lessons on a classical instrument, and while there's a lot to be said for that, I also want kids to experience being kids.

 

[TerryMathews]

I do agree! I said as much earlier in the thread.

Good, I'm glad to see we can agree on a sane issue on this position.

Still makes me feel dirty though.

 

[TerryMathews]

I largely agree, but I think the point of these courses is to build self esteem. It's possible that the lesson learned from a white teacher might be "Jeez, we even need white people to tell us what it means to be black/Hispanic", in which case the course would be self-defeating. Problem is one would have to be familiar with the teacher and the students to judge that, but I can see the protesters' point and acknowledge that it might have some validity even if the teacher is great.

Those supporting the white teacher have at their disposal the best defense to this racism.

"For hundreds of years, your people were told that you weren't good enough for these jobs. That you weren't smart enough to read and write. That you couldn't possibly understand math. Now that you have achieved equality, you want to apply those very same standards to this man? For shame. To assume that he can't understand the history of black people because he isn't black is contrary to the very freedoms that your people fought and died for."

 

[Svnla]

'Dem thinking challenged darkies......eh?

Thank you for your stereotypical "Southerner 4ever!!!" view. How little things change.

Yet again, a forum member espousing generalised and race based supremacist and denigrating bigotry, for the win................

Was I correct that blacks and hispanics were/are not doing well in schools while Asians were/are doing as well as whites or better?

YES or NO? Just one simple answer. Again, I stress Yes or No only.

That's true for whites too. It's not all cut and dried though. In my grandson's last school there were a LOT of Asian students, but they never appeared in sports. They are all kicking butt academically and they all took music lessons on a classical instrument, and while there's a lot to be said for that, I also want kids to experience being kids.

While I think excessive time in school/classes are not very healthy, I refer to have my kids (If I ever have some) to do well in school because the odd is much much better to make it in life via brain (education/knowledge) than brawn (pro sports).

 

[RandomWords]

'Dem thinking challenged darkies......eh? Thank you for your stereotypical "Southerner 4ever!!!" view. How little things change. Yet again, a forum member espousing generalised and race based supremacist and denigrating bigotry, for the win...............

Even you show you are a bit racist here... you do.

hat's an excellent plan just as long as we recognize that there is still a huge inequity in starting position between black and white. If you've been standing on my head my whole life and jump off, we don't have the same chance to win the rat race because I first have to dig myself out of the hole you put me in.

This inequality is much smaller than you portray though and doesn't have to do so much with society anymore as it has to do with the family unit. A lot of it does have to do with motivation and what comes from their parents. The information is there - they have access to the books and to college and to anything they want to achieve today. What they lack is motivation - and with everyone telling them the world they live in doesn't allow "their kind" to succeed - when in fact it does - or that "the white man is holding them down" without giving them accountability for their actions - it just promotes them staying where they are at... that and gangs - which if people united in those neighborhoods - could completely get rid of. I see a community of people that worry more about what "whitey" is doing to their people and looking at ways to get money from lawsuits out of "whitey" that that is where all their focus is put... wasted on changing what other people think over anything productive... because the laws don't prohibit them from succeeding - if a business fails to hire them because there is a racist bastard there - there are 20 more businesses that will - but instead of going to get hired at one of them - they would rather spend their next couple of years pointing out how that business is racist to the news media and staying unemployed so they can go "poor poor pitiful me" until the lawsuit goes through and they make a couple 100K... everyone has the opportunity to succeed if they apply themselves - some have to try harder than others.

You like to say inequality but all I think is all the stories where a poor refugee from another country came to America and worked HARD - harder than most blacks are willing to today - and built his family a life and each generation built upon that life - sacrificing pretty much ALL fun so their kids could have it better. I do not see that in the black community - I see parents who don't want to give everything and sacrifice everything for their kids to have it better, parents teaching their kids it is a disgrace to be associated with white people or being taught by them (because that is what they are doing in this case), parents who would rather beat their kids than to take the time to sit down and teach them/read to them, parents who are telling their kids they can't achieve this same thing (which they can), I see kids being taught things should come easy and that the world owes them success without any work, I see kids thinking it is cool to be in gangs and not work hard to get ahead - but instead take from other people; they see themselves as victims and let that define who they are as a people... It is that mentality that needs to be changed. There are many black people that raised themselves from nothing into very successful people... and yet - they seem to be hated by some black communities as much as whites.

As a society though (including all races), newer generations seem to becoming lazier on average and this contributes to the mindset to fail.

I largely agree, but I think the point of these courses is to build self esteem. It's possible that the lesson learned from a white teacher might be "Jeez, we even need white people to tell us what it means to be black/Hispanic", in which case the course would be self-defeating. Problem is one would have to be familiar with the teacher and the students to judge that, but I can see the protesters' point and acknowledge that it might have some validity even if the teacher is great.

It is also possible that they will further gain the attitude that white people held them down and none of them are trying to help and that they won't listen to a thing a white person said because they are all evil - that's about how you sound with this. Or it might teach them to still have self-esteem if people didn't brainwash them into thinking that white people teaching them is a disgrace and an insult.

"For hundreds of years, your people were told that you weren't good enough for these jobs. That you weren't smart enough to read and write. That you couldn't possibly understand math. Now that you have achieved equality, you want to apply those very same standards to this man? For shame. To assume that he can't understand the history of black people because he isn't black is contrary to the very freedoms that your people fought and died for."

THIS is a very great point as well as many of them made in this forum on how teachers teach from books, they are trained to teach the subject - the color and knowledge of being black has nothing to do with him being able to teach these kids.

 

[Svnla]

Even you show you are a bit racist here... you do.

I think you quote the wrong person, I did not say what you quoted. The other poster said it, not me. I am still waiting for his/her rebuttal or anyone else.