which receiver to get.. 400 budget standby passthrough be nice

[randomactsoftech]

I have an ONKYO TX-NR616 that I love. they run $399 right now.

 

[MadScientist]

I saw this in the Deals section over at the AVS forum, Tascam 7.2 PA-R200 Receiver for $350. FS and the 5.2 PA-R100 for $259. from B&H Photo and Pro Audio Star. Decent specs for the price.
http://tascamdj.com/product/pa-r200/overview/

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/911596-REG/tascam_pa_r200_7_2_ch_surround_receiver_network.html
http://www.proaudiostar.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=TAS-PAR100+TAS-PAR200&siteID=TnL5HPStwNw-e6GmjqFJzAhFnkh3km1TAA&Creative=10&CreativeID=1&Publisher=TnL5HPStwNw

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1521710/tascam-pa-r200-receiver-at-b-h-photo-350-00-free-shipping-appx-45-off-list

Built by Onkyo
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474177/tascam-pa-r200

 

[cmdrdredd]

If you value sound quality you should stay away from Sony products.

Here is my experience with Sony receivers:

Opinion on Sony Receiver?



I ended up with an Onkyo and later a Denon, both much better than the Sony.

Say what? Notice all the positive category comments on sound quality being good. You link to a post over 4 years ago and call that indicative of Sony's AVR quality today? Also do you have the proper setup to actually tell what is going on? I sure don't but these pro guys who do. There is also a hefty thread on AVS Forum where a lot of people like their new Sony receiver.
BTW: Onkyo has bad HDMI issues that they still haven't fixed. You can fix it yourself but why should you have to?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-str-dn1040
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sony-str-dn1040-receiver-review
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-dn1040-av-receiver

 

[gus6464]

Denon and Marantz are actually very close if not identical considering they're the same company. Marantz only pulls away in the separates department from Denon. Marantz receivers are way sexier looking than Denon though. The big feature Marantz has over Denon in the midrange territory though is preout for the fronts and some have HT bypass for those preouts which is a big deal if you want to do both solid state and tube amplification on your fronts for music listening.

 

[MongGrel]

If you value sound quality you should stay away from Sony products.

Here is my experience with Sony receivers:

Opinion on Sony Receiver?



I ended up with an Onkyo and later a Denon, both much better than the Sony.

Yep it's your opinion I guess.

 

[MongGrel]

Say what? Notice all the positive category comments on sound quality being good. You link to a post over 4 years ago and call that indicative of Sony's AVR quality today? Also do you have the proper setup to actually tell what is going on? I sure don't but these pro guys who do. There is also a hefty thread on AVS Forum where a lot of people like their new Sony receiver.
BTW: Onkyo has bad HDMI issues that they still haven't fixed. You can fix it yourself but why should you have to?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-str-dn1040
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sony-str-dn1040-receiver-review
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-dn1040-av-receiver

+1

 

[gus6464]

Say what? Notice all the positive category comments on sound quality being good. You link to a post over 4 years ago and call that indicative of Sony's AVR quality today? Also do you have the proper setup to actually tell what is going on? I sure don't but these pro guys who do. There is also a hefty thread on AVS Forum where a lot of people like their new Sony receiver.
BTW: Onkyo has bad HDMI issues that they still haven't fixed. You can fix it yourself but why should you have to?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-str-dn1040
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sony-str-dn1040-receiver-review
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-dn1040-av-receiver

Onkyo has always had HDMI issues dating back to their first HDMI receiver. They also run HOT compared to the rest. My first receiver ever was a Sony and it lasted me 15 years. It could have kept on going but I started to use it in my backyard and let it get wet one day so there it went. It was a superb piece of audio equipment. I have owned Denon, Yamaha, Sony, and Marantz and I would rate my Sony higher than my Yamaha. If you want tons of connectivity and do not have demanding speakers for the price Sony is a great way to go. If I was spending over $500 for a receiver in this day and age it would be Marantz all the way considering you can get refurb units for cheap at accessories4less.

I wouldn't touch Onkyo with a 10ft pole.

 

[queequeg99]

Onkyo has always had HDMI issues dating back to their first HDMI receiver. They also run HOT compared to the rest. My first receiver ever was a Sony and it lasted me 15 years. It could have kept on going but I started to use it in my backyard and let it get wet one day so there it went. It was a superb piece of audio equipment. I have owned Denon, Yamaha, Sony, and Marantz and I would rate my Sony higher than my Yamaha. If you want tons of connectivity and do not have demanding speakers for the price Sony is a great way to go. If I was spending over $500 for a receiver in this day and age it would be Marantz all the way considering you can get refurb units for cheap at accessories4less.

I wouldn't touch Onkyo with a 10ft pole.

I wonder if the Onkyo heat/hdmi issues are still around? I've been reading about them for years. For moderately priced receivers (like this thread), I've tended to go with Denon primarily because (i) I don't need huge numbers of connections and powered second zones, and (ii) I really like the Audyssey MultiEQ XT room correction. I know room correction can be a very personal thing but that system has worked wonders for me in the three rooms I've used it in. I love that it EQs the sub, which I don't believe any other room correction system in this price range (if any) will do.

Clarification: the E300 and E400 both have MultiEQ correction only (not XT). They still EQ the sub but don't have the increased resolution of the XT level.

 

[Anubis]

i have 2 onkyos

no issues at all with either of them

 

[s44]

I wonder if the Onkyo heat/hdmi issues are still around? I've been reading about them for years. For moderately priced receivers (like this thread), I've tended to go with Denon primarily because (i) I don't need huge numbers of connections and powered second zones, and (ii) I really like the Audyssey MultiEQ XT room correction. I know room correction can be a very personal thing but that system has worked wonders for me in the three rooms I've used it in. I love that it EQs the sub, which I don't believe any other room correction system in this price range (if any) will do.

Clarification: the E300 and E400 both have MultiEQ correction only (not XT). They still EQ the sub but don't have the increased resolution of the XT level.

Even regular MultEQ is way better than what you'll find in other AVRs at this price level, which is why I think the Sony/Onkyo pissing contest going on here is pointless. By far the largest difference in sound quality will come from room/output correction algorithms, especially if you have less-than-perfect equipment or space.

The X1000 has MultEQ XT, though, which is why I recommended it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Even regular MultEQ is way better than what you'll find in other AVRs at this price level, which is why I think the Sony/Onkyo pissing contest going on here is pointless. By far the largest difference in sound quality will come from room/output correction algorithms, especially if you have less-than-perfect equipment or space.

The X1000 has MultEQ XT, though, which is why I recommended it.

I don't use room correction anymore. I do it manually. That's just me. I sit where I am going to sit and do all the measurements and set the sound level of each channel to my ears. It isn't that I don't trust the software to do it but I have always gone in and adjusted something to my taste anyway.

Audio is very subjective so I wouldn't say that there is a magic button that makes everything perfect. It helps get close though and sure there are some that get closer than others. Maybe for most people using room correction is all they need. I won't say it doesn't help make it less of a pain to setup. I know from experience that setting the levels and crossovers through the menus even with a UI takes time and patience.

 

[s44]

Audyssey is much more than auto level/distance setting. It's also much more than the auto parametric EQ that other AVRs have. It's a fine-grained per-channel EQ filter that attempts to measure and compensate for reflection sources in the room -- time domain as well as frequency issues -- using multiple measurements to gauge the space.
http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq
It also enables automatic per-volume remixing and some other cool features.

The only other DSP systems that attempt to address this stuff, AFAIK, are Trinnov and Pioneer's *Advanced* (not regular) MCACC, but those are available only on much more expensive equipment. Again, at this price point, the presence of MultEQ and MultEQ XT on the Denons make them a no-brainer.

 

[gus6464]

MultiEQ even non XT is just beyond anything the other manufacturers have. MCACC is at least decent but YPAO just flat out sucks. With the prices of Denon and Marantz at A4L there is no reason to buy another receiver. It was very smart of the Denon group to stick with Audyssey. If you want a zillion HDMI ports I would recommend a Sony but if you don't you shouldn't be looking at anything other than Denon or Marantz. The Denon E-400 is an absolute steal right now for the price ~$250. If you run multiple subs I would then recommend you move up to X series as Audyssey XT can help greatly with that but even then nothing trumps REW (Room EQ Wizard) and a compatible DSP.

 

[gus6464]

Ohh and forgot to mention that the only exception to the Onkyo rule is Integra. That is a whole other class of gear miles ahead of Onkyo with a matching price tag to boot.

 

[killster1]

i like how everyone going on and on in this thread.. i bought a e300 for 200 bux a week ago? .. only thing is i have 2 subs and dont know where to hook them up on it.. i guess the "sub preout" rca looking plug.. but the subs are speaker wire.. so just connected tem to rear channels and barely hear them / shrug.. e300 is ok not really much better than the maudio monitors i had been using connected to rca adapter / pc .. but i am not a audiophile.. ((obviously)))

As far as heat just plug in laptop cooler to any receiever just 20 bux and usb passthrough so doesnt even steal the only port.. mins nice silent 160mm coolermaster sitting on top the denon e300 seems cool as ice and fairly quiet

 

[cmdrdredd]

i like how everyone going on and on in this thread.. i bought a e300 for 200 bux a week ago? .. only thing is i have 2 subs and dont know where to hook them up on it.. i guess the "sub preout" rca looking plug.. but the subs are speaker wire.. so just connected tem to rear channels and barely hear them / shrug.. e300 is ok not really much better than the maudio monitors i had been using connected to rca adapter / pc .. but i am not a audiophile.. ((obviously)))

As far as heat just plug in laptop cooler to any receiever just 20 bux and usb passthrough so doesnt even steal the only port.. mins nice silent 160mm coolermaster sitting on top the denon e300 seems cool as ice and fairly quiet

Do your subs not have a built in amp? Normally there is just one wire coming from the sub and going to the receiver. I have seen some subs that use speaker wire but they need a separate amp that goes to the sub pre-out.

MultiEQ even non XT is just beyond anything the other manufacturers have. MCACC is at least decent but YPAO just flat out sucks. With the prices of Denon and Marantz at A4L there is no reason to buy another receiver. It was very smart of the Denon group to stick with Audyssey. If you want a zillion HDMI ports I would recommend a Sony but if you don't you shouldn't be looking at anything other than Denon or Marantz. The Denon E-400 is an absolute steal right now for the price ~$250. If you run multiple subs I would then recommend you move up to X series as Audyssey XT can help greatly with that but even then nothing trumps REW (Room EQ Wizard) and a compatible DSP.

There is a big thread on AVSforum about this and many people have said just as I that there is no magic button despite what Audyssey fanboys think or say. The general feeling from many posts is that every room correction needs tweaking afterwards anyway because they aren't perfect. A lot of people put too much faith in them and forget that your ears are the true test of whether something sounds good. I agree with many posters there that room correction should never be the selling point of any AVR for a potential buyer.

Refer to this post to see actual frequency charts to see how the Audyssey actually hurts in some areas(upper bass and lower mids) on a specific setup. Of course the naysayers later on in the thread ask about how he actually did the test and accuse him of doing it wrong.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526445/f...ideas-and-suggestions-please/60#post_24594735

Then this chart (from 09 and correction algorithms and software has changed since for sure) where the average magnitude response at listening seat was measured and charted. Note that no correction was better than audyssey xt at the time.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526445/f...ideas-and-suggestions-please/30#post_24593445

So as I said, I don't use room correction because it isn't always the best result.

 

[Number1]

Say what? Notice all the positive category comments on sound quality being good. You link to a post over 4 years ago and call that indicative of Sony's AVR quality today? Also do you have the proper setup to actually tell what is going on? I sure don't but these pro guys who do. There is also a hefty thread on AVS Forum where a lot of people like their new Sony receiver.
BTW: Onkyo has bad HDMI issues that they still haven't fixed. You can fix it yourself but why should you have to?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-str-dn1040
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sony-str-dn1040-receiver-review
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-dn1040-av-receiver

Calm down. I got rid of the onkyo and got a Denon because it had multEQXT.
Today's Sony don't have anything that evenly come close to Audyssey

 

[Number1]

Yep it's your opinion I guess.

If you read the thread you will notice that I was initially a Sony fan and trough actually buying both a new sony and then an onkyo receiver I noticed significant sound improvement with the Onkyo

I now sport a Denon with Audyssey multEQXT and it sounds even better now that I can equalize my subs.

The new Sonya come with many features now but if you value sound quality, you should buy something else.

 

[queequeg99]

i like how everyone going on and on in this thread.. i bought a e300 for 200 bux a week ago? .. only thing is i have 2 subs and dont know where to hook them up on it.. i guess the "sub preout" rca looking plug.. but the subs are speaker wire.. so just connected tem to rear channels and barely hear them / shrug.. e300 is ok not really much better than the maudio monitors i had been using connected to rca adapter / pc .. but i am not a audiophile.. ((obviously)))

What kind of subs do you have (make and model #)? As Dredd said, most powered subs will have a single RCA input, although many will also support speaker wire connections (primarily to support older receiver equipment that might not have a subwoofer RCA output).

Also, it sounds like you might have connected them incorrectly to the Denon. Here's an avsforum thread on the issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1418480/h...ly-has-speaker-output-input-jacks-to-receiver

Basically, it looks like you should be connecting them to your front main terminals. You then run speaker wire from the sub to the mains (basically the sub is placed in between the Denon and the mains). There should be a crossover dial on the sub that you will use to make the sub sound nicely with the mains.

Finally, if your subs are not powered, you might want to seriously consider saving up for an acceptable powered sub. If you listen at decent volumes, you'll be putting a lot of strain on the Denon with two unpowered subs. There are a number of decent entry level powered subs (here's one that is frequently mentioned, although I must admit I've never heard it: http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1.../dp/B0015A8Y5M).

 

[Anubis]

for subs with out a LFE (RCA in) they should have 2 sets of binding posts

1 set for "IN" and 1 set for "Out"

you simply run your speaker wire for the Left and Riight channels from the AVR to the "IN" on the sub, and then run the "OUT" to the speakers

the sub should have a crossover dial on it to set the crossover point

 

[gus6464]

i like how everyone going on and on in this thread.. i bought a e300 for 200 bux a week ago? .. only thing is i have 2 subs and dont know where to hook them up on it.. i guess the "sub preout" rca looking plug.. but the subs are speaker wire.. so just connected tem to rear channels and barely hear them / shrug.. e300 is ok not really much better than the maudio monitors i had been using connected to rca adapter / pc .. but i am not a audiophile.. ((obviously)))

As far as heat just plug in laptop cooler to any receiever just 20 bux and usb passthrough so doesnt even steal the only port.. mins nice silent 160mm coolermaster sitting on top the denon e300 seems cool as ice and fairly quiet

First you need to find out if your subs are passive or active. If they are passive connecting them to the receiver is not going to do anything as the receiver does not have enough juice to power that.

If they are active then you need to find the high level inputs on the sub. The speakers go on the high level input and the output goes to L and R fronts on the AVR but the sub has to be active even for this to work.

Now if the subs are active and you have two you want to set them up in mono config which means that left speaker goes to high level L input on sub and L output goes to L front on AVR. Do this on the other sub but for the right speaker. One sub should not have both L and R connected.

 

[MadScientist]

OP,
From your first post you state you have 2x 12" sub cheap fosgate. What model Fosgates??
As already posted, if the Fosgates are passive you should definitely use an active sub with the Denon E-300.

For low cost subs, the BiC America F12 that queequeg99 linked to at Amazon gets good reviews.

Also the Polk PS121:http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-PSW-121-Subwoofer/dp/B00CPP6UO8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Or the Dayton Audio SUB-1500. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1500-15-150-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-634

And the sub I'm currently using with the Denon E-300, the Dayton Audio SUB-1200. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629

 

[alkemyst]

Most of the flames against accessories4less are those buying products that they are not authorized resellers for. Any returns must go back to the manufacturer for those and that is stated in their TOS.

I haven't have a bad deal from them yet and helped probably nearly a dozen people stretch their budgets there.

 

[killster1]

this thread Keeps going and goign!.. i decided i might try hooking up a amp to the 12's.. maybe a 300w plate amp.. or was also thinking maybe use a car amp and a xbox360 psu for real easy quick cheap setup.. i mean everything else had no budget so maybe i should just get the dayton 15" sub for 179..

But using what i got already does sound good also.. just seems like will run close to the same price ;P

 

[Zaap]

I love my e400. Highly recommended. Future proof too (4k pass through).

I just ordered an e400.

Can't freakin' wait to get it! This will be my first decent audio for my setup. I've been really audio lazy for years. Just been using the cheapest theatre-in-a-box POS that came with my TV.

Recently I just got fed up and decided to go for something a bit better- the e400 seems like the perfect fit for me. It'll be night and day from the junk audio I'm used to, I'm sure.