where to start for a 100% total noob at laying wire...

[purbeast0]

so i have another question...

i'm going to be drilling into my attic, which is going to be putting a hole in my ceiling which will run a fairly significant amount of cables through it, probably close to 4 coax cables and at least 8 network cables.

i'm also possibly going to be drilling into the hardwood floor in one area as well, to get 6 network cables or so and a coax into my utility room.

what size drill bit would someone recommend to do this, and are there items that you can put around the edge of the holes to make a smooth edge? basically like some sort of cap to put around the edges, but still have the cables run through it?

 

[imagoon]

In the interest of less tools, I would likely use a pair of 1 inch holes. For reference I have put 4 cat5 and 2 coax through a 1 inch hole. As for that cap, you only need those for metal studs. I would guess your house is wood.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Is there really a need to drill through the ceiling? If you're going to be running the cabling through the walls, why not do the same in the room where the cabling terminates?

 

[purbeast0]

Is there really a need to drill through the ceiling? If you're going to be running the cabling through the walls, why not do the same in the room where the cabling terminates?

well the plan was to put the switch/patch panel in the closet, and run wires up the wall into the ceiling into the attic, then drop down the walls.

i guess i COULD put a hole in the dry wall instead and put some sort of panel there to run the wires through. i honestly hadn't even thought of that.

 

[frowertr]

i guess i COULD put a hole in the dry wall instead and put some sort of panel there to run the wires through. i honestly hadn't even thought of that.

This is what you should do to make the installation clean. Don't put a hole in your celing. You will regret it.

 

[purbeast0]

This is what you should do to make the installation clean. Don't put a hole in your celing. You will regret it.

yea that is a very good call.

i just went up into my attic and holy shit what a fail it was.

keep in mind this is the first time i've been in my attic since inspection...

first of all there is no light up there at all, and it's dark here, and i don't have a flashlight so that was fail immediately. i used my phone's light to kinda look around.

second there is so much of that loose insulation that i can't even see any beams or anything running along the ground, so i have no clue where to step right now. so i didn't even try to move around really.

third i didn't have any gloves or anything on, so i couldn't go digging through it. and i also had shorts on with shoes and no socks so i couldn't feel around with my foot.

so wow i'm going to have to go get some more shit like a flashlight and goggles because i don't want the insulation getting in my eyes. i already have the things that cover your mouth so you don't breathe it in.

i may give it another go tomorrow, to see if i can at least find where the space between the walls is and stuff, because i really have no clue right now how easy/hard it will be to find the space between the walls, and if i will be able to simply drop stuff from the attic between the walls or if i have to do some drilling.

<----suchanoob

 

[frowertr]

You will just have to find the trusses up there and walk over them. I have kinda cleared out "paths" in my attic where the trusses are. Take a light up there and just proceed carefully. Don't put your full weight on anything other than a 2x4 stud and make sure you "test" your weight and walk carefully.

You won't just be able to walk up to the attic and drop a cable down between the drywall space. Depending on how your house was framed there will be a top plate or a double to plate up there (probably one or two 2x4's stacked on top of each other) that "caps" the two drywall pieces together. You will have to drill through the top of that plate in the space between the studs where you want your outlet box down below.

 

[Carson Dyle]

You asked about finishing a hole drilled into drywall. Just to make sure you know: You'll either need low voltage boxes (usually plastic) or else tin or plastic brackets similar to the one below for mounting new wall plates in drywall. Use a decent drywall saw to cut the openings.

http://www.outletpc.com/bg9850.html...ogleproducts&gclid=CJCkmYuEh7MCFcU-MgodCwwAhw

 

[purbeast0]

You will just have to find the trusses up there and walk over them. I have kinda cleared out "paths" in my attic where the trusses are. Take a light up there and just proceed carefully. Don't put your full weight on anything other than a 2x4 stud and make sure you "test" your weight and walk carefully.

You won't just be able to walk up to the attic and drop a cable down between the drywall space. Depending on how your house was framed there will be a top plate or a double to plate up there (probably one or two 2x4's stacked on top of each other) that "caps" the two drywall pieces together. You will have to drill through the top of that plate in the space between the studs where you want your outlet box down below.

ah okay. yea tonight i'm going up there with a lantern type of flash light that is pretty bright so i can see if i can find the areas between the walls and stuff. i have a drill so cutting through those pieces that cap the drywall pieces together. just drilling a 1" or so hole in those shouldn't do anything to mess with the integrity of the actual structure at all right?

You asked about finishing a hole drilled into drywall. Just to make sure you know: You'll either need low voltage boxes (usually plastic) or else tin or plastic brackets similar to the one below for mounting new wall plates in drywall. Use a decent drywall saw to cut the openings.

http://www.outletpc.com/bg9850.html...ogleproducts&gclid=CJCkmYuEh7MCFcU-MgodCwwAhw

yup thanks, i have a bunch of those already, as well as a drywall saw to cut out holes and mount those.

 

[frowertr]

just drilling a 1" or so hole in those shouldn't do anything to mess with the integrity of the actual structure at all right?

Nope. I typically use a 1 inch spade bit. Make a nice round hole and cuts like butter.

 

[purbeast0]

Nope. I typically use a 1 inch spade bit. Make a nice round hole and cuts like butter.

yea i got a set of spade bits yesterday that range from like .75" - 1.5"

 

[imagoon]

for the structure questions, on a 2x4 don't cut more than 1.5 inch. 2 inch starts to take to much away from the "4" which is actually 3.5ish. Also gap the holes a bit and your fine (IE 1 inch to 1.5 inch of space between the holes, dont cut a long hole etc.

 

[purbeast0]

for the structure questions, on a 2x4 don't cut more than 1.5 inch. 2 inch starts to take to much away from the "4" which is actually 3.5ish. Also gap the holes a bit and your fine (IE 1 inch to 1.5 inch of space between the holes, dont cut a long hole etc.

cool, gotcha. if i have to do this, i will probably just use the 1" drill bit and do a couple a few inches apart.

 

[Carson Dyle]

For lighting in an attic, crawlspace (or cave ), a headlamp can be invaluable. It throws light in whichever direction you look and is less likely to be blocked by your own shadow.

http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-E93-PS-T...0502028&amp;sr=1-2

 

[frowertr]

For lighting in an attic, crawlspace (or cave ), a headlamp can be invaluable. It throws light in whichever direction you look and is less likely to be blocked by your own shadow.

http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-E93-PS-T...0502028&amp;sr=1-2

This! Man I can't tell you how much help having my little LED headlamps make when working in dark small spaces.

 

[purbeast0]

For lighting in an attic, crawlspace (or cave ), a headlamp can be invaluable. It throws light in whichever direction you look and is less likely to be blocked by your own shadow.

http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-E93-PS-T...0502028&amp;sr=1-2

lol i actually was just in my attic and thought to myself wow, one of those head lights would help so much! i have this really bright 'lantern' type of thing, but it doesn't do justice to something that could move with my head. definitely need to get one of those.

so now that i spent some time up in my attic, i have more questions!

i was up in my attic and walked around (which is tight too and kind of tough) to the area where i think is between the walls. the only problem is, all of the ceiling has drywall overtop of it, so i have no clue where 'between walls' actually starts.

i started to do some drawings while up in the attic of the wood beams and noticed they are all 24" apart.

is the only way to really figure out where to cut holes into the drywall ceiling, to get down between walls, by just taking detailed measurements and basically estimating where you can cut the drywall so that you make a hole which will lead between the walls? or is there something else that makes this task easier. it seems that is going to be the toughest part of this whole project.

i stopped for the night because i was starting to do it this way, then realized i had no pencil to mark my walls in the rooms where i find the wood beams (with a stud finder), and i was giong to measure from the wood beams to the edge of the wall, and estimate where i would cut the hole in the ceiling dry wall to get between the walls.

is that basically the correct way to do this, or is there another way to do this?

 

[imagoon]

Typically the main attic is 24" but between the joists will be some additional 2x4s that hold the "cap" of the wall in place. You may have to dig in to the insulation a bit to find them. Since they are 24" apart, measure the room you want to work with and then count off by 2 feet and fine where the wall "should be." Dig a bit and you should find the support wood and 2x4 toppers. Once you find them it will be the same all over the house. The attic braces are normally pretty thick, 2x8 to 2x12 where the supports are normally 2x4's so they are going to be buried pretty deep in the insulation. Once you find it, you should eventually see the house electrical going down in to the wall, use that to gauge where to drill.

 

[purbeast0]

Typically the main attic is 24" but between the joists will be some additional 2x4s that hold the "cap" of the wall in place. You may have to dig in to the insulation a bit to find them. Since they are 24" apart, measure the room you want to work with and then count off by 2 feet and fine where the wall "should be." Dig a bit and you should find the support wood and 2x4 toppers. Once you find them it will be the same all over the house. The attic braces are normally pretty thick, 2x8 to 2x12 where the supports are normally 2x4's so they are going to be buried pretty deep in the insulation. Once you find it, you should eventually see the house electrical going down in to the wall, use that to gauge where to drill.

well the thing is, i dug under all the insulation. there is a bunch of the loose kind that is spread all over, and below that is the pink kind that comes in rolls and is rolled flat.

and ten below that, there is drywall covering everything.

i saw the joists that are 24" apart, and right below that is drywall. and between places that i KNOW there is a wall (because it is literally right next to the attic opening) there is just drywall there and i don't see any other wood beams.

 

[Carson Dyle]

The drywall should not be on top of the top plates of the walls. The top plates should be exposed in the attic, with the joists resting on top of them.

One thing you can do to figure out where to drill is to run a thin metal rod up through the ceiling drywall immediately adjacent to the wall cavity where you want to drop your cabling. Something that would protrude far enough into the attic where you can locate it visually. The small hole can be easily patched later.

 

[purbeast0]

The drywall should not be on top of the top plates of the walls. The top plates should be exposed in the attic, with the joists resting on top of them.

One thing you can do to figure out where to drill is to run a thin metal rod up through the ceiling drywall immediately adjacent to the wall cavity where you want to drop your cabling. Something that would protrude far enough into the attic where you can locate it visually. The small hole can be easily patched later.

ah okay thank you for that. since this was my first time up there and i was running my hand along it, maybe it was just smooth and i thought it was the drywall?

tomorrow i have to get a head lamp, it was really frustrating to not have one up there.

and actually that diagram you just showed me makes me feel a little better. there is a light housing i saw from the attic in my hallway, and then another electrical fixture that my smoke/carbon monoxide detector was wired into, and between that is a wall (well a door that is in the wall).

tomorrow i will go up there and inspect that area under the insulation to try and find the wooden beam.

now let me ask you this too...

i wanted to place my switch/patch panel in a closet, and run the wires between the wall in the closet. is that going to be tougher to find because there won't be a beam there?

thanks for the help, going to go to sleep now but will check in the morning.

EDIT:

and what if the house had been renovated since the original purchase? should the rooms still have the beams between them?

 

[frowertr]

i wanted to place my switch/patch panel in a closet, and run the wires between the wall in the closet. is that going to be tougher to find because there won't be a beam there?

Every wall in your house should (will) have a plate at the top. The drywall you were seeing up in the attic before was probably the top side of your ceiling. I'm willing to bet that where you thought the wall was, was actually several inches away and you didn't move enough insulation around to find it.

It can be confusing in an attic since you are used to looking at everything from the top down. I use known landmarks like electrical outlets, telephone wire, etc... in order to find my way around. If your house has central air/heat than use the airducts to locate the walls you need.

 

[purbeast0]

Every wall in your house should (will) have a plate at the top. The drywall you were seeing up in the attic before was probably the top side of your ceiling. I'm willing to bet that where you thought the wall was, was actually several inches away and you didn't move enough insulation around to find it.

It can be confusing in an attic since you are used to looking at everything from the top down. I use known landmarks like electrical outlets, telephone wire, etc... in order to find my way around. If your house has central air/heat than use the airducts to locate the walls you need.

so just to be clear, every wall, including closet walls and what not, should have the wood plate at the top of it up in the attic?

 

[frowertr]

so just to be clear, every wall, including closet walls and what not, should have the wood plate at the top of it up in the attic?

Over doors and windows there will be a header attached first (closest to the floor) and then a plate attached at the top of the header. The header may be a 2x6 or 2x10.

But yes, every wall in your house goes right up to the ceiling right? If so, then it has to have a header/plate up there. You have to have something to attach the vertical studs to at the top AND bottom. If you were to just attach them at the bottom you wouldn't have a very strong wall.

 

[purbeast0]

Over doors and windows there will be a header attached first (closest to the floor) and then a plate attached at the top of the header. The header may be a 2x6 or 2x10.

But yes, every wall in your house goes right up to the ceiling right? If so, then it has to have a header/plate up there. You have to have something to attach the vertical studs to at the top AND bottom. If you were to just attach them at the bottom you wouldn't have a very strong wall.

haha i have to say, reading that just gave me one of the biggest "DUH" moments i've had in recent times.

i know there are studs around the closet because i've ran the stud finder in there, so yea, they must be attached to something at the top lol.

ok man thanks for the information, going to hopefully find the beam tonight that leads down to the closet, and drill a hole in there, then cut a hole in the wall and see if i can get this started.

also let me ask this...

what is the difference between using fish tape and glow rods to fish wire vertically through a wall?

i ended up getting fish tape (got 50' instead of 25' because it was like $3 more so i figured why not), but most videos show people using glow/fiberglass rods to do this.

 

[frowertr]

what is the difference between using fish tape and glow rods to fish wire vertically through a wall?

i ended up getting fish tape (got 50' instead of 25' because it was like $3 more so i figured why not), but most videos show people using glow/fiberglass rods to do this.

I have never used the glow rods myself. I have an old steel fish tape I have used for years and it has never failed me. The upside of the fiberglass tapes is they are non-conductive so if you were to hit an exposed/non-insulated energized line, you wouldn't be electrocuted.

I'll probably buy a fiberglass tape one day when my steel tape fails me.