where to start for a 100% total noob at laying wire...

[notposting]

Few thoughts from someone who does this work:

You don't need 1 drop per device, though it is the ideal solution. I have a little Gb switch behind our entertainment center for the Xbox, HTPC, Verizon Network Extender...works fine. I do have QOS set up on our router (WRT54GL running Toastman Tomato) though.

I wouldn't put network equipment in the attic, however one thing to look into while exploring is a main pathway up there...idea being to run all the cabling for the different rooms up there in one spot, then run them over to the various locations and drop down.

You can do all sorts of things for network equipment, neatness, etc. We are in a townhouse for now that I upgraded when we moved in (the next person should be thrilled ), I have 2x2 piece of plywood for the patch panel, 66-block, 8-port Gb switch, and cable splitters. Then a shelf (well, multiple shelves now ), for battery backup, server, router, HDHomerun, monitor... But it looks pretty nice with some decent cable management and is in the basement anyway.

Definitely run a coax along with ethernet if you think it is a possibility you will want that. Or tie a pull string when pulling the cable and then leave that in place for future additions.

I use Cat-5e...it's definitely easier to work with. Most of the professionals (including myself) who deal with this stuff day in and day out will advocate the use of a patch panel on one end, and keystone jacks on the other (and then using patch cables on either end). Anyone who suggests just crimping on connectors and plugging straight into devices should be burned at the stake

As far as the wireless vs wired argument...I think wired will be around for a long time...and for stationary devices, I think it is an obvious solution. Anyways, good luck with the project!

 

[purbeast0]

Few thoughts from someone who does this work:

You don't need 1 drop per device, though it is the ideal solution. I have a little Gb switch behind our entertainment center for the Xbox, HTPC, Verizon Network Extender...works fine. I do have QOS set up on our router (WRT54GL running Toastman Tomato) though.

I wouldn't put network equipment in the attic, however one thing to look into while exploring is a main pathway up there...idea being to run all the cabling for the different rooms up there in one spot, then run them over to the various locations and drop down.

You can do all sorts of things for network equipment, neatness, etc. We are in a townhouse for now that I upgraded when we moved in (the next person should be thrilled ), I have 2x2 piece of plywood for the patch panel, 66-block, 8-port Gb switch, and cable splitters. Then a shelf (well, multiple shelves now ), for battery backup, server, router, HDHomerun, monitor... But it looks pretty nice with some decent cable management and is in the basement anyway.

Definitely run a coax along with ethernet if you think it is a possibility you will want that. Or tie a pull string when pulling the cable and then leave that in place for future additions.

I use Cat-5e...it's definitely easier to work with. Most of the professionals (including myself) who deal with this stuff day in and day out will advocate the use of a patch panel on one end, and keystone jacks on the other (and then using patch cables on either end). Anyone who suggests just crimping on connectors and plugging straight into devices should be burned at the stake

As far as the wireless vs wired argument...I think wired will be around for a long time...and for stationary devices, I think it is an obvious solution. Anyways, good luck with the project!

what is wrong with running the wire to the keystone jack on the wall, and crimping on an end piece to the other end and plugging that directly into the switch?

i'm also still a little confused about the point of a patch panel.

 

[imagoon]

what is wrong with running the wire to the keystone jack on the wall, and crimping on an end piece to the other end and plugging that directly into the switch?

i'm also still a little confused about the point of a patch panel.

Mod ends are not designed to be crimped to in wall solid core. It is also by far the most common point of failure. Add on to that the buying the ends and the tool often costs more than popping a proper patch panel in there in the first place and buying the patch cords. Especially since you can get these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

Cheap (sub $5) and use a couple of screws and a baggie of $2 nylon stand offs to bolt them to a plywood panel. It makes it dirt simple even for beginners to "get it right." Most people can buy 2-3 of those and have a nice little set up that is really easy to install.

edit:

If you want to get fancy you can also buy the metal bracket that holds 3 of them and bolt that to the wall.

The point of a patch panel is in wall cables is not supposed to move. The patch panel provides rarely moved point that the cables can end at. Think of it this way: Power in the house ends at an outlet where a plug is used. You don't just drag the raw 14/12 gauge cable out a hole in the wall and wire nut it to the power supply of your computer do you? That plug and D shaped cord is the same thing. It is stranded and designed to be moved. The raw solid core copper in the wall is not.

 

[purbeast0]

Mod ends are not designed to be crimped to in wall solid core. It is also by far the most common point of failure. Add on to that the buying the ends and the tool often costs more than popping a proper patch panel in there in the first place and buying the patch cords. Especially since you can get these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

Cheap (sub $5) and use a couple of screws and a baggie of $2 nylon stand offs to bolt them to a plywood panel. It makes it dirt simple even for beginners to "get it right." Most people can buy 2-3 of those and have a nice little set up that is really easy to install.

edit:

If you want to get fancy you can also buy the metal bracket that holds 3 of them and bolt that to the wall.

The point of a patch panel is in wall cables is not supposed to move. The patch panel provides rarely moved point that the cables can end at. Think of it this way: Power in the house ends at an outlet where a plug is used. You don't just drag the raw 14/12 gauge cable out a hole in the wall and wire nut it to the power supply of your computer do you? That plug and D shaped cord is the same thing. It is stranded and designed to be moved. The raw solid core copper in the wall is not.

i'm not to sure what you mean by that first paragraph. i thought any cable can be crimped to an end plug piece or pushed into the keystone jacks?

additionally i already have the end plug things that you crimp the wire to (not sure the real name of them) as well as a crimper/stripper tool that my friend gave to me. so i didn't have to really shell out any $$ for those things.

 

[imagoon]

i'm not to sure what you mean by that first paragraph. i thought any cable can be crimped to an end plug piece or pushed into the keystone jacks?

additionally i already have the end plug things that you crimp the wire to (not sure the real name of them) as well as a crimper/stripper tool that my friend gave to me. so i didn't have to really shell out any $$ for those things.

The cable is designed to be punched in to keystones and patch panels. It is not designed to have mod ends (the plastic end with the clip) crimped on to it. While it may work, it is not proper and is by far the most common point of failure in every residential install I have seen using that method.

Personally I have never understood why people keep doing it that way and fight so hard to just install a proper patch panel. It is like they don't want to spend that final $20 after spending hundreds to get all the parts together. It is the same as not bothering to use an outlet on the wall because "wire nuts on the in wall solid copper works fine."

 

[purbeast0]

The cable is designed to be punched in to keystones and patch panels. It is not designed to have mod ends (the plastic end with the clip) crimped on to it. While it may work, it is not proper and is by far the most common point of failure in every residential install I have seen using that method.

Personally I have never understood why people keep doing it that way and fight so hard to just install a proper patch panel. It is like they don't want to spend that final $20 after spending hundreds to get all the parts together. It is the same as not bothering to use an outlet on the wall because "wire nuts on the in wall solid copper works fine."

so if that is true, then what cables are designed to have the mod ends crimped onto them?

also you keep mentioning that the mod ends crimped onto the end of cables is one of the major areas of failure - what actually fails here? is it just people not knowing how to crimp them properly?

 

[imagoon]

so if that is true, then what cables are designed to have the mod ends crimped onto them?

also you keep mentioning that the mod ends crimped onto the end of cables is one of the major areas of failure - what actually fails here? is it just people not knowing how to crimp them properly?

Most times the solid copper of the cable breaks at the crimp blades. This lets the insulation still hold the copper in place but now it is touching rather than one piece of cable. This makes the link lights come up and even stay up when the cable is moved but if you have a managed switch in there, you would see thousands of error frames which gives you "slow internet" or what ever.

Those ends are designed to attached to stranded cable to make patch cords. They also are used to connect "RJ48" from carrier cards to 110 Patch panels. This works because those cables are connected and rarely touched after that, often behind panel doors.

---edit

Don't get me wrong, it may work fine for years. I have just considered it like those people that fix rust on their car by just rattle canning rustoleum paint of the bad spot. It looks like crap, sorta covers over the problem (ie it works) but isn't done right so the panel may continue to rust under the paint and cause a hole anyway.

 

[purbeast0]

Most times the solid copper of the cable breaks at the crimp blades. This lets the insulation still hold the copper in place but now it is touching rather than one piece of cable. This makes the link lights come up and even stay up when the cable is moved but if you have a managed switch in there, you would see thousands of error frames which gives you "slow internet" or what ever.

Those ends are designed to attached to stranded cable to make patch cords. They also are used to connect "RJ48" from carrier cards to 110 Patch panels. This works because those cables are connected and rarely touched after that, often behind panel doors.

---edit

Don't get me wrong, it may work fine for years. I have just considered it like those people that fix rust on their car by just rattle canning rustoleum paint of the bad spot. It looks like crap, sorta covers over the problem (ie it works) but isn't done right so the panel may continue to rust under the paint and cause a hole anyway.

ok so what if you have stranded cat5e or cat6 cable, and connect the mod ends to that?

i was actually wondering wtf the difference actually was between solid and stranded cable when looking at spools of it.

sorry if these questions seem very trivial, i really just have no clue about this stuff heh.

 

[imagoon]

ok so what if you have stranded cat5e or cat6 cable, and connect the mod ends to that?

i was actually wondering wtf the difference actually was between solid and stranded cable when looking at spools of it.

sorry if these questions seem very trivial, i really just have no clue about this stuff heh.

Stranded is for patch cables, solid is for in wall installs.

Basically stranded has more loss than solid. To the point where 100 feet of stranded gets pretty iffy if you will get a link light (or a functional link.)

Solid core goes out to 285 feet with out much of an issue.

The "100 meter" spec for Ethernet cable is defined as minimum 85 meters of solid core, 15 meters of stranded (total, counting both ends) with 4 "connections*" for a working connection.

*switch to patch, patch to patch panel [cable], keystone [cable] to patch, patch to device.

Please note there lots of people that will argue that you can crimp ends on the cables and plug it in. No matter how much they argue, it is not to spec and typically less reliable. It also makes the runs less useful if you have have something that uses cat5e but isn't ethernet like phones or HDMI over cat5 etc.

 

[purbeast0]

Stranded is for patch cables, solid is for in wall installs.

Basically stranded has more loss than solid. To the point where 100 feet of stranded gets pretty iffy if you will get a link light (or a functional link.)

Solid core goes out to 285 feet with out much of an issue.

The "100 meter" spec for Ethernet cable is defined as minimum 85 meters of solid core, 15 meters of stranded (total, counting both ends) with 4 "connections*" for a working connection.

*switch to patch, patch to patch panel [cable], keystone [cable] to patch, patch to device.

Please note there lots of people that will argue that you can crimp ends on the cables and plug it in. No matter how much they argue, it is not to spec and typically less reliable. It also makes the runs less useful if you have have something that uses cat5e but isn't ethernet like phones or HDMI over cat5 etc.

ok so if i got this correct, you would recommend that i run my FIOS router to a switch, then a bunch of wires to a patch panel, then those wires go from the patch panel to the the different jacks, all at a keystone panel, and then my devices to the keystone jacks?

and when you say "patch cable" you simply mean a normal cable with mod ends on it?

 

[imagoon]

ok so if i got this correct, you would recommend that i run my FIOS router to a switch, then a bunch of wires to a patch panel, then those wires go from the patch panel to the the different jacks, all at a keystone panel, and then my devices to the keystone jacks?

and when you say "patch cable" you simply mean a normal cable with mod ends on it?

I think you have it. A patch cable is the normal stranded cable you connect devices with. Like nearly everything on this page:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

Also buy patch cables, don't waste your time building them. The machine built ones typically have boots and are backfilled to strengthen the bonds.

 

[purbeast0]

I think you have it. A patch cable is the normal stranded cable you connect devices with. Like nearly everything on this page:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

Also buy patch cables, don't waste your time building them. The machine built ones typically have boots and are backfilled to strengthen the bonds.

ok so I think I got it now.

so this here is a patch panel that you are talking about?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1051402&p_id=7310&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

and you would press the wire into the white things that are in the bottom pics, and then you would connect that to the rear of the patch panel, then plug the network cables into the patch panel?

 

[imagoon]

ok so I think I got it now.

so this here is a patch panel that you are talking about?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1051402&p_id=7310&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

and you would press the wire into the white things that are in the bottom pics, and then you would connect that to the rear of the patch panel, then plug the network cables into the patch panel?

Exactly. I would also consider my link above to amazon. You could pick up 3 of those leviton panels also. They are a bit easier to start on since you just bolt them to the plywood with wood screws and a couple of nylon spacers you can get at the hardware store. The connectors and the 110's are all on the front which is easier for some people to deal with.

 

[purbeast0]

okay cool well thanks for the help. i was unaware of what exactly a patch panel was even for but now it makes sense.

as far as the link i showed on monoprice, what exactly would you mount something like that to? would you need a rack to properly mount that?

is putting a patch panel in an attic a bad idea, or would you just recommend putting a patch panel right near the switch?

 

[Carson Dyle]

ok so I think I got it now.

so this here is a patch panel that you are talking about?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=1051402&p_id=7310&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

Yes. If you buy a rack mount panel, like the one pictured, you'll also need a mounting bracket. The mounting bracket is generally about 6 to 8 inches deep and is hinged to let the patch panel swing out so that you have easy access to the rear for punching down the cables.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10516&cs_id=1051602&p_id=8623&seq=1&format=2

The above photo (lower) shows a patch panel mounted in a bracket. The bracket is taller than it needs to be, but it could accommodate additional equipment if wanted. The upper part of the photo shows a second bracket with a shelf (handy for placing equipment like small routers, cable modems, etc.) plus some other rackmount pieces. The two pieces with metal loops are for patch cable management and can often be helpful for keeping things tidy.

 

[imagoon]

Something like this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10516&cs_id=1051602&p_id=8623&seq=1&format=2

You would mount the patch panels near the switch... or more correctly "mount the switch near the patch panel." Typically the patch cables from switch to patch panel are pretty short. All of mine are 6 inch cables for example. My switch is mounted below the patch panel.

 

[Carson Dyle]

A couple of other things to consider:

Make sure you buy a patch panel with enough ports/jacks for all of the planned cabling runs. Having some extras may be a good idea in case you decide to run more cable in the future.

Then you have to consider how large of a switch to buy. Let's say you go a little crazy and do 18 runs of network cable in your house. A 24 port patch panel will be needed. But how many ports will you need on a switch? If you want all 18 network wall jacks to be hot and always available for plugging in a computer or piece of networked equipment, then you'd need a switch with at least 18 ports.

Or, you can buy a switch with only as many ports as you need active wall jacks, but you'll have to selectively patch the correct port from the patch panel to your smaller switch. And also have to remember that not every jack is operational, so you don't get worried when you plug something in and it doesn't connect.

 

[purbeast0]

ok so i am ready to order i think, and i have put most items in my cart that i think i need. i just wanted the experts here to take a look and let me know if they think there is anything i am missing.

http://i.imgur.com/mep7C.png

i already have quite a few 2 keystone jacks at home, which i plan to put 1 coaxial and 1 ethernet in. i also have the mounting brackets for them. i also have the crimper/stripper tool for the network cable, and a bunch of the mod ends as well.

i plan on purchasing some quad shielded rg6 cable from lowes to run the coaxial cable. one thing i am not sure about are the end pieces that i need for a coaxial cable. do i have to be sure they are shielded? are ones that crimp on better than the ones that just twist or compress on? i don't have any tools for the coaxial stuff either.

but as far as the pic above, does that look about right for the network stuff? anything obvious that i'm missing?

 

[imagoon]

On coax, the compression connectors are better imo. The quad shield ends are different than standard RG6.

I would consider getting the keystone plates with extra spots and buying the blanks for future expansion. IE by a 4 port, throw the 3 devices in with blanks.

I don't see your patch cables, what are the strain relief boots for? #1 rule, don't build your own patch cords. Don't waste your time. Just buy them. You have zero need for a cat5 / "rj45" crimper in this install. Just give it back to your friend.

 

[imagoon]

Yes. If you buy a rack mount panel, like the one pictured, you'll also need a mounting bracket. The mounting bracket is generally about 6 to 8 inches deep and is hinged to let the patch panel swing out so that you have easy access to the rear for punching down the cables.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10516&cs_id=1051602&p_id=8623&seq=1&format=2

The above photo (lower) shows a patch panel mounted in a bracket. The bracket is taller than it needs to be, but it could accommodate additional equipment if wanted. The upper part of the photo shows a second bracket with a shelf (handy for placing equipment like small routers, cable modems, etc.) plus some other rackmount pieces. The two pieces with metal loops are for patch cable management and can often be helpful for keeping things tidy.

Carson,

Can I steal your pic for the cable sticky?

 

[purbeast0]

On coax, the compression connectors are better imo. The quad shield ends are different than standard RG6.

I would consider getting the keystone plates with extra spots and buying the blanks for future expansion. IE by a 4 port, throw the 3 devices in with blanks.

I don't see your patch cables, what are the strain relief boots for? #1 rule, don't build your own patch cords. Don't waste your time. Just buy them. You have zero need for a cat5 / "rj45" crimper in this install. Just give it back to your friend.

well i planned on making my own patch cables because i will have everything available to do so, so it would be a waste to not just build them myself. my friend does professional installations for a living and he set me up w/the crimper and the mod ends and explained to me exactly how to crimp them on.

i'd rather just try it out first, and then if i have an issue, purchase the cables down the road. i'm going to have 1000ft of cable which is going to be MORE than enough, so I am going to give creating my own cables a go.

as far as having an extra slot in the wall that actually does sound like a good idea and i will order some extra 3 hole ones just in case.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Can I steal your pic for the cable sticky?

It's not mine. Just a quick googled pic.

 

[imagoon]

well i planned on making my own patch cables because i will have everything available to do so, so it would be a waste to not just build them myself. my friend does professional installations for a living and he set me up w/the crimper and the mod ends and explained to me exactly how to crimp them on.

i'd rather just try it out first, and then if i have an issue, purchase the cables down the road. i'm going to have 1000ft of cable which is going to be MORE than enough, so I am going to give creating my own cables a go.

as far as having an extra slot in the wall that actually does sound like a good idea and i will order some extra 3 hole ones just in case.

Well if explained to you how to do it, then he had to have told you that solid core is not for patch cables correct? If he is telling you to use solid core then I would question him about it because solid core tends to breaks when moved. I don't see a roll of stranded on your order sheet.

 

[purbeast0]

Well if explained to you how to do it, then he had to have told you that solid core is not for patch cables correct? If he is telling you to use solid core then I would question him about it because solid core tends to breaks when moved. I don't see a roll of stranded on your order sheet.

the very first item in my order is stranded cable.

 

[kevnich2]

I highly recommend just buying some predone patch cables. I am very thankful I haven't made my own cable in several years. It takes too long and wastes too much time considering you can buy patch cables from monoprice for pretty cheap. If nothing else, try making a few cables yourself and you'll figure out in no time - "doing this crap by hand is a waste of time" I just order bulk bags of patch cables from monoprice and having them sitting at the ready but I wire up patch panels all the time so I go through 12-24 at a time.