Question When will AM4 be cheapest?

Leeea

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It seems as AM4 is replaced with AM5, AM4 cpus will hit a low point, and then the price will begin to climb again.

When will that low point be?



Will rumors of additional am4 CPUs effect this?:
https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-allegedly-preparing-new-zen3d-and-low-end-am4-processors



Is AMD going to continue production of AM4 even after AM5 is on the market?
AMD will have N6 and N7 production at TSMC in Q1 2023. With N6 being used for Ryzen 6000 series, is it safe to speculate N7 is still producing AM4 parts?
 
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Kaluan

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Possibly around Q2 2023, I say that mostly because DDR5 is speculated to reach price parity with DDR4 (and technically after that become more and more cheaper per GB). After that point AM5 may start looking like the better option overall.

As for further price cuts for the SKUs themselves I'm not sure, but 5800X3D and the Ryzen 9 5000s may get some official price cuts in the coming months.

Either way, I think first half of 2023 will be when AM4 will peak in value.

New SKUs are also a big possibility. Be them more Zen3 SKUs, Zen3+, N6 refreshes of Zen3 or even Zen4 "backports". AMD was pretty clear that AM4 is not leaving anytime soon.
 
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SteinFG

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About new chips:
4600G is already released. I expect 4300G to be released soon. Maybe athlon 4100GE.
When it comes to CPUs, maybe we'll see 5100 with 4C 8T / 8MB L3, in the same price tier as 4100 - $100.
AMD can't do much more while using monolithic chips, which are most budget ones.

About prices:
10400 costs 112 right now, so I assume R5 5500 will go down to this price, maybe 110.
12400 and 5600 are in price parity, so probably not dropping below 160.
5800X3D will soon end production I assume, to free up the fab lines for 7000X3D, plus it's a halo product, so I don't expect lower than 380 price.

That's all just my gut feeling.
 
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NostaSeronx

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Okay full speculation/rumor/ugh:

On 22FDX: Geode One and Sempron One => Only SoC(BGA) specification as far as I can tell.
On 12FDX: FX and Sempron => 12FDX CPU/APU(FX unlocked cTDP(25W+) and Sempron locked cTDP(<25W)) appears to have Socket specification.

New architecture: (Geode/Sempron aka 22FDX variant)
Two CPU processors:
1 MB L2 private(2 x 512 KB)
2 MB L3 shared(2 x 1 MB(2x 512 KB?))
Two CU GPU(same as Bhavani/Beema/Mullins/Carrizo-L/Mendocino/Raphael)

12FDX variant hasn't been revealed yet but is mentioned in Personal Computing Return Plan by GlobalFoundries.
- I don't know the exact processor count or GPU count for 12FDX (final track height selection by GF hasn't been leaked so I can't even guess)

FX will replace Ryzen stuff, also brings in a cheaper AM4 socket. I want to iterate that it is more closely related to 25W AM1 rather than 220W AM3+. Sempron replaces prior Athlon 200G/300G/3000G/stuff at lower TDPs.

AMD is moving 14nm products to Samsung to fit in NTO products at Malta (22FDX/12FDX).

*Architecture should be Zen3/Zen4 FPU but with Integer/General Purpose-added:
1. Retire
2. Mapper/NSQ (Load/Store into PRF occurs here)
3. Two Schedulers: Grid-capable (load two superscalar instructions as one 128-bit SIMD)
4. Two Execution Clusters: 128-bit depth (2x64-bit/1x128-bit :: not sure if 4x32-bit got in first gen(22FDX) or improved gen(12FDX))
Port0Port2Port4
FPMUL​
FPADD​
FPMISC​
VALU0 (iCluster ports 0,1)​
VALU1 (iCluster ports 2,3)​
VAGU0(iAGU0+iAGU1: iCluster ports 4,5)​
Branch​
VIMUL​
Store Data​
ISA and ISE executes on the same datapaths rather than seperate ones.

A single-thread can use both clusters:
VALU0/1 in P0/P1/P2/P3 => 8x ALUs for a single thread. <== only possible in loops (via micro-op cache)
Same units available in 2x Puma FPU configured into a SMT-style processor. Just another way of doing Zen architecture for GlobalFoundries.
Computational side:
Zen1 => 4x ISA 64-bit &&(and) => 3x ISE 64-bit
XV/JG => 2x ISA 64-bit &&(and) => 2x ISE 64-bit
Whereas this architecture => 8x ISA 64-bit ||(or) => 8x ISE 64-bit

22FDX is not AM4 standard but could pop-up if AM4e (stoney ridge's socket) makes an appearance. However, it is better to expect AM4b with reduction of VRM capacity and removal of Chipset I/O Hub. With that using a shrinked and more capable version(loops-limitation removed?) of the 22FDX design.

- Cheaper node(FDX)/processor(area-shaved)
- Cheaper AM4 variants(reduced BOM w/ AM4+ boards; AM4b: reduced VRM/no chipset, AM4e: reduced 128-bit DDR to 64-bit DDR, only a single PCIe x4 slot)

Also, 22FDX might launch after 12FDX parts. So, sorry for putting it first, but it was the actual origin node for the new stuff. However, the node hasn't hit its highest performance node variant. For example: AMD didn't do 28HP in 2012 or 28HPP in 2013... they did GF28SHP(for High-end) then did GF28A(for Low-end). 12FDX unlike 22FDX is launching in its highest performance state from the get-go. Only minor refreshes are needed in 12FDX like GF28A in Bhavani(v1) -> Carrizo(v2) -> Bristol(v2.1) -> Stoney(v2.2) -> Stoney Refresh(v3) -> Stoney Refresh2(v4: unreleased A9-9435/A6-9235). Of which, Geode for 12FDX is launching at the end of 12FDX where transistor optimization is best.

12FDX Demo/Launch/Release => July 2023+
22FDX Release => January 2024+

FX should follow suit of Raphael having an integrated GPU, but should be "monolithic." The internal codec isn't based on VCE/VCN(Custom Cadence Xtensa) but rather Xillinx's Media Accelerator:
AVC, HEVC, VVC (<== customer might need to pay for license to use these)
VP8, VP9, AV1 (<== free for customer use)
 
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gdansk

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Given component difficulties still exist, how long do you expect consumer AM4 motherboards to continue in mass production? AM5 boards will have better margin and in such constraints that would be the priority.

Usual CPU rules will apply. They usually outlast boards. So replacers will choose the best-in-class chips (5950X, 5800X3D). Those will retain their value better after production ends.
 
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moinmoin

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is it safe to speculate N7 is still producing AM4 parts?
N7 will mainly be for server chips as long as those are offered (as far as I can recall AMD is guaranteeing availability of Epyc chips for 5 years from launch?) and demanded, Epyc Rome and Milan. I'd expect at least some quantity of those CCDs making it to the consumer AM4 market as well.
 
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SteinFG

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Given component difficulties still exist, how long do you expect consumer AM4 motherboards to continue in mass production? AM5 boards will have better margin and in such constraints that would be the priority.

Usual CPU rules will apply. They usually outlast boards. So replacers will choose the best-in-class chips (5950X, 5800X3D). Those will retain their value better after production ends.

I can still buy cheap B560 intel boards for 10100/10400, so I'd say very long time
 

Shmee

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If you are looking for an upgrade for an AM4 board, I think now is a fine time. 5900X seems to be the sweet spot IMO, especially if you can get a discounted used one. Should be under $300 easy.
 

DAPUNISHER

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On Newegg 8 of the top 10 CPUs are AMD right now. On Amazon it is 7, with the $246 5800x number 1. A testament to the importance of platform longevity in retail CPU sales. 12th gen has great performance, but still fails to replace more of the older AMD CPUs in the top 10. The 3600 for instance, is back in the top 10 at $124.41. Intels' "2 CPUs and no more for you" policy, is costing them.

At the lower end, some models seem to be seeing the traditional price creep proceeding the holiday 'hot deals" every year. For example: the 5600 and 5600g were $145 in late July.

Now seems a good time for the higher end Ryzens, but if looking at the sub $200 market, I think I'd wait.
 

jpiniero

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On Newegg 8 of the top 10 CPUs are AMD right now. On Amazon it is 7, with the $246 5800x number 1. A testament to the importance of platform longevity in retail CPU sales. 12th gen has great performance, but still fails to replace more of the older AMD CPUs in the top 10. The 3600 for instance, is back in the top 10 at $124.41. Intels' "2 CPUs and no more for you" policy, is costing them.

It's the platform costs... boards, cooling... AM5 will be interesting since it also looks like it will pricey like LGA 1700.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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It's the platform costs... boards, cooling... AM5 will be interesting since it also looks like it will pricey like LGA 1700.
That is the other part of it, yes. But being able to drop a new CPU in your old 3 or 4 series board is the other. Example: you can build a nice 12100f setup for very similar money to the Ryzen 3600 or 5500. 12100f is an overall better CPU, especially for gaming, and doesn't use much power. So why are both 12100s sitting at 27 and 28th place well below both those Ryzens? It isn't build cost or performance, and it shouldn't be futureproofing either. 12100 wins all of those v. the other 2. It is mostly because of drop in goodness. Some of course are buying on core count, DIY community sentiment, whatev.

If AMD sticks to their guns, longevity will still make AM5 a better investment than 1700 despite initial higher cost compared to AM4. It has been what? a little over a year and we are already talking about a dead socket from Intel again. lulz. In a few months builders will ask which platform to build on, and in just that amount of time, we will go from get 1700 because AM4 is EOL, to get AM5 because 1700 is EOL. Weak. With the usual caveat of builders that might actually want to swap CPUs later, and not the normal use it for 5yrs+. Advice for them is always buy best bang for buck when you build. And buy as much CPU and GPU as you can afford to hedge your bets as much as possible. I won't talk used, that is another world, and some DIYers don't like preowned merch. Weirdos. :p

On topic for AM4 pricing - 3600 shot back up to $140 again.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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If you look at Newegg, there's even AM4 boards under $50. There are some sub-$100 LGA 1700 boards but not that many and probably those would only work with the 65 W parts. AMD I believe said AM5 is going to start at $125.
Right. That more expensive board may take 2 or 3 more gens of Ryzen though, making it well worth it. My X370 board can take a 3D, that's pretty sweet. That is the precedent AMD has set. They fail on that this time, it will get ugly for them.

But Myself? I won't be jumping in early on AM5. Let everyone else shake out the bugs and flaws. There will be plenty of boards and CPUs in the price range I am interested in by that time. Besides my 5800X is plenty for what I do and the GPUs I have.
 

Leeea

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Example: you can build a nice 12100f setup for very similar money to the Ryzen 3600 or 5500. 12100f is an overall better CPU, especially for gaming, and doesn't use much power. So why are both 12100s sitting at 27 and 28th place well below both those Ryzens?
Interesting.


One of the systems I am looking to build before the end of October has a 5600g slotted for it. Intending to use the iGPU on it. Naturally, the 12100f is not being considered.



Does Intel's line up have anything that compares to a 5600g?



This is a gift for a person who is currently using a Haswell era iGPU to open up Solidworks files and generate parts lists. They also like to watch non-youtube video content that is likely not capable of being hardware accelerated. Planning to gift them a small 4k TV at the same time as a monitor upgrade.
 

Insert_Nickname

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If AMD sticks to their guns, longevity will still make AM5 a better investment than 1700 despite initial higher cost compared to AM4. It has been what? a little over a year and we are already talking about a dead socket from Intel again. lulz. In a few months builders will ask which platform to build on, and in just that amount of time, we will go from get 1700 because AM4 is EOL, to get AM5 because 1700 is EOL. Weak. With the usual caveat of builders that might actually want to swap CPUs later, and not the normal use it for 5yrs+. Advice for them is always buy best bang for buck when you build. And buy as much CPU and GPU as you can afford to hedge your bets as much as possible. I won't talk used, that is another world, and some DIYers don't like preowned merch. Weirdos. :p

Wasn't it hinted AMD would keep AM4 around a bit longer as the budget option? That'd make sense since AM5 is DDR5 only, so keep it until DDR5 reaches price parity?
 
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DAPUNISHER

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Does Intel's line up have anything that compares to a 5600g?
Sounds like the UHD 730 on the 12100 is plenty for what they do. But as @jpiniero pointed out, a worthwhile board is more expensive than AM4 offerings. I was impressed with my 5600G, so I can give it a big thumbs up. Especially at around the $155 price it goes for here in the U.S.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Wasn't it hinted AMD would keep AM4 around a bit longer as the budget option? That'd make sense since AM5 is DDR5 only, so keep it until DDR5 reaches price parity?
Yeah, I have seen that quote about AM4 staying around a few places now. And it makes sense imo. People willing to spend will have the new hotness, The rest of us will get even more options for our trusty old AM4 builds. Which is kind of crazy in a good way, with how many CPUs you can already put in one.

I am wondering if the basic iGPU in the G series of Ryzen 7000 is going to be able to hang with UHD for HTPC use. That would be a big step forward in winning those OEM and S.I. contracts. Office and media are all you really need there. Gaming APUs won't be nearly as popular with the glut of dGPUs.
 

In2Photos

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Wasn't it hinted AMD would keep AM4 around a bit longer as the budget option? That'd make sense since AM5 is DDR5 only, so keep it until DDR5 reaches price parity?
It did sound like AM4 would stick around for a while. But DDR5 is rumored to reach DDR4 pricing later this year so hopefully that's not a deciding factor.
 
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Asterox

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In response to the OP question... over here in Australia Ryzen 3 4100 can be had for under AUD $149!
Low end cpu but its still AM4
. :)
Been that way for the last few months already...

Well, that is not so cheep even with AU dolars. :innocent:

For example, here in my country(EU, Croatia) you can buy this.

- R5 4650G, Tray version+CPU cooler as bonus 133euro

- R5 5500, Tray or Box version for 140euro


Vega 7 iGPU for only 7 euro higher price, pay and drive i don't care about Zen 3.:mask:

AM4 motherboard, cheep Gigabyte model(50euro) with support for any Ryzen CPU and APU.



If you need HDMI 2.0/2.1, or 4K/60hz resolution over HDMI for PC monitor or 4K TV, you must pay a little bit more euros. Asrock A520M-HSV for 64 euro, in combination with any Ryzen APU and no problem you have 4K/60hz over HDMI.
 

Insert_Nickname

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I am wondering if the basic iGPU in the G series of Ryzen 7000 is going to be able to hang with UHD for HTPC use. That would be a big step forward in winning those OEM and S.I. contracts. Office and media are all you really need there. Gaming APUs won't be nearly as popular with the glut of dGPUs.

I don't see why not. It should use the same media block as Rembrandt, so has full AV1 decoding too. So AMD and Intel should be pretty equal in that department.
 

Hotrod2go

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Well, that is not so cheep even with AU dolars. :innocent:

For example, here in my country(EU, Croatia) you can buy this.

- R5 4650G, Tray version+CPU cooler as bonus 133euro

- R5 5500, Tray or Box version for 140euro


Vega 7 iGPU for only 7 euro higher price, pay and drive i don't care about Zen 3.:mask:

AM4 motherboard, cheep Gigabyte model(50euro) with support for any Ryzen CPU and APU.



If you need HDMI 2.0/2.1, or 4K/60hz resolution over HDMI for PC monitor or 4K TV, you must pay a little bit more euros. Asrock A520M-HSV for 64 euro, in combination with any Ryzen APU and no problem you have 4K/60hz over HDMI.
Those prices are relevant to your local area & even if an Aussie over here wanted to buy one from over there, shipping costs would make that a less attractive proposition. Then you've got the challenge of daily exchange rates predictably changing all the time.
 
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Asterox

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Those prices are relevant to your local area & even if an Aussie over here wanted to buy one from over there, shipping costs would make that a less attractive proposition. Then you've got the challenge of daily exchange rates predictably changing all the time.

As expected, or it is just example of affordable prices for CPU-s and AM4 motherboards localy in my home country.

Red, huh why would anyone from Australia even think of such nonsense. :grinning: It is actually unfeasible, but it can be like this if i am drunk. I buy R5 4650G and send it to you in Australia, but i pay $-100-150 for shipping that's roughly the figure.:mask:
 

scineram

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Well, that is not so cheep even with AU dolars. :innocent:

For example, here in my country(EU, Croatia) you can buy this.

- R5 4650G, Tray version+CPU cooler as bonus 133euro

- R5 5500, Tray or Box version for 140euro


Vega 7 iGPU for only 7 euro higher price, pay and drive i don't care about Zen 3.:mask:

AM4 motherboard, cheep Gigabyte model(50euro) with support for any Ryzen CPU and APU.



If you need HDMI 2.0/2.1, or 4K/60hz resolution over HDMI for PC monitor or 4K TV, you must pay a little bit more euros. Asrock A520M-HSV for 64 euro, in combination with any Ryzen APU and no problem you have 4K/60hz over HDMI.
Careful, my Assrock B450 barely supports HDMI 2. Only 4:2:0 colors.
 
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