When the h*ll is the US government going to rein in oil speculation?

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,181
1,630
126
To me it would be an extremely simple step to reinn in the oil market, perhaps by increasing margin requirements or abolishing margin accounts in that field altogether. This may be able to be accomplished by regulators without any new legislation, I don't know.

While I believe in free markets, it is quite apparent that some more effective regulation is needed here. Commodities futures markets are designed to help suppliers and consumers of commodities insure a more predictable price on their needed supplies. Instead its presently being used by a lot of people for profit motive, and goes bonkers on every little trivial bit of news.

This is doing our country no good-every time oil spikes, the stock market tanks, gas prices shoot up, inflationary pressure rachets up (the Fed is now making noises about attacking inflation), and ultimately more recession and job loss pressure.

Meanwhile, Congress fiddles with a dubious windfall oil profits tax and GWB and the GOP call for drilling in ANWAR. Fixing the oil market now would be a real solution-and effective almost immediately, as opposed to both parties' doctrine-driven "solutions."

If only we had a head of state who was seriously interested in effective solutions. Or at least better advisors.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
You're preaching to the choir.

I've been singing about this for years when it ecame apparent that it no longer had anything to do with supply and demand.

Up until recently I was laughed at.

Well there are still some still laughing, clearly the ones laughing all the way to the bank and even have admitted so.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
94
86
No one complained about speculation in housing or tech stocks, but raise gas prices 5 cents and theres hell to pay.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,376
126
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
No one complained about speculation in housing or tech stocks, but raise gas prices 5 cents and theres hell to pay.
It's hardly 5 cents.

$30/bbl to $136/bbl is somewhat ... abnormal.

EDIT : Housing speculation did drive home prices up, but not by 200-300%.

Speculation on tech stocks had ZERO impact on consumer prices.

Fuel is almost a necessity to live even a moderate lifestyle in most parts of our nation. Increasing the price by such a massive amount does great harm to the country.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,675
487
126
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
No one complained about speculation in housing or tech stocks, but raise gas prices 5 cents and theres hell to pay.
No one complained about speculation in housing? I find that rather hard to believe. Hell, I'm pretty sure I complained about it a few times myself.

As for gas prices...what is it up? 60-70% in 6 months or so?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,690
1,903
126
In the long run, I think higher gas prices will help our society...I am noticing fewer cars on the road...news stories hitting left and right that big SUVs are sitting idle on new car lots...demand increasing for smaller and alternative energy vehicles...spikes in demand on public transportation.

The best way to change the behavior of Americans is through their wallets...of course, I realize that gas prices are hitting many families very hard right now, and that is unfortunate...but I actually do not mind paying higher prices if it changes certain behaviors that I find even more disturbing...I mean, do soccer moms really need a gas guzzling Suburban or Escalade?
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,939
0
76
Where's the millions of Americans protesting in the streets or marching on Washington? Perhaps if half the country wasn't on Prozac or some other zombie-state enducing prescription drugs, people might actually be outraged enough.

 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
In the long run, I think higher gas prices will help our society...I am noticing fewer cars on the road...news stories hitting left and right that big SUVs are sitting idle on new car lots...demand increasing for smaller and alternative energy vehicles...spikes in demand on public transportation.

The best way to change the behavior of Americans is through their wallets...of course, I realize that gas prices are hitting many families very hard right now, and that is unfortunate...but I actually do not mind paying higher prices if it changes certain behaviors that I find even more disturbing...I mean, do soccer moms really need a gas guzzling Suburban or Escalade?
You are truly a fucking idiot if you think what soccer mom drives is relevant to any discussion or will have any effect on society.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
No one complained about speculation in housing or tech stocks, but raise gas prices 5 cents and theres hell to pay.
No one complained about speculation in housing? I find that rather hard to believe. Hell, I'm pretty sure I complained about it a few times myself.

As for gas prices...what is it up? 60-70% in 6 months or so?
I've complained about the housing speculation for a solid 2 years now. There are many out there like me too. In the end, they both suck.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,510
2
81
I've heard that key speculation actually occurs on the Dubai exchange in order to hide from US regulation.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
I'd say we reverse the 2000 Congressional Republican's actions that led to a deregulated commodity futures market. That would be a good first step.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
199
101
Curbing speculation in the US market won't change anything because it's a global market, finances are fluid, the speculation would simply occur another way.

Also, if the price is being driven to a large extent by speculation (which I believe to be the case), then just like tech and housing, there will be a huge bursting bubble at some point, the speculators will lose their shirts on it.

I don't think the government has a whole lot of options on this matter....
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
In the long run, I think higher gas prices will help our society...I am noticing fewer cars on the road...news stories hitting left and right that big SUVs are sitting idle on new car lots...demand increasing for smaller and alternative energy vehicles...spikes in demand on public transportation.

The best way to change the behavior of Americans is through their wallets...of course, I realize that gas prices are hitting many families very hard right now, and that is unfortunate...but I actually do not mind paying higher prices if it changes certain behaviors that I find even more disturbing...I mean, do soccer moms really need a gas guzzling Suburban or Escalade?
:thumbsup: We were (and still are in a way) spoiled by low fuel prices. Check the prices other countries are paying: LINK Our gas taxes are pretty low comparatively. I'd support an increase in gas tax to promote alternative fuel (not ethanol) sources, better roads, efficiency incentives, and more/better public transportation.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,675
487
126
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
In the long run, I think higher gas prices will help our society...I am noticing fewer cars on the road...news stories hitting left and right that big SUVs are sitting idle on new car lots...demand increasing for smaller and alternative energy vehicles...spikes in demand on public transportation.

The best way to change the behavior of Americans is through their wallets...of course, I realize that gas prices are hitting many families very hard right now, and that is unfortunate...but I actually do not mind paying higher prices if it changes certain behaviors that I find even more disturbing...I mean, do soccer moms really need a gas guzzling Suburban or Escalade?
Thousands of families unable to afford to heat their homes, the costs of food and basic services skyrocketing with no viable alternatives available. Yes, we are charging towards utopia.

Everyone knew gas was going to go up, but the breakneck pace it has occured at, and for no particular reason, has left people little time to adapt even if they can afford too.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,215
11
81
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
In the long run, I think higher gas prices will help our society...I am noticing fewer cars on the road...news stories hitting left and right that big SUVs are sitting idle on new car lots...demand increasing for smaller and alternative energy vehicles...spikes in demand on public transportation.

The best way to change the behavior of Americans is through their wallets...of course, I realize that gas prices are hitting many families very hard right now, and that is unfortunate...but I actually do not mind paying higher prices if it changes certain behaviors that I find even more disturbing...I mean, do soccer moms really need a gas guzzling Suburban or Escalade?
I really hate this stance. It's absurd.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: lupi
You are truly a fucking idiot if you think what soccer mom drives is relevant to any discussion or will have any effect on society.
If said soccer moms are complaining about high gas prices while filling up their 3-4 ton SUV used to go to and from school, grocery, etc they're not going to get any sympathy from me.

 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Thousands of families unable to afford to heat their homes, the costs of food and basic services skyrocketing with no viable alternatives available. Yes, we are charging towards utopia.

Everyone knew gas was going to go up, but the breakneck pace it has occured at, and for no particular reason, has left people little time to adapt even if they can afford too.
Do you feel the same about people who purchased homes during the housing bubble and are now being foreclosed on? I've seen threads on this board where there was next to no sympathy for them.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Tired of the price of a product? Stop buying the product. Free market FTW.
Yeah. What are you people thinking. Of course the answer is to let the free market correct the mistakes of...the...free...market?

What a stupid, blindly ideological and impracticable remark.

When the free market is incapable of regulating itself because human greed has run amok, then there needs to be an outside, arbitrary regulator to assist them.

I'm sure that, since the .gov is the one complaining about the price of oil as well, that we should stop buying it as a country or paying for it to accomplish anything that needs to be done to really show those free market types that there is no demand for a vitally necessary commodity?

Maybe those pumps that were used to drain all of the flooding that you experienced in MO will run on pixie dust next time? Or the bull dozers that were used to help clean up the mess made after the tornadoes wreaked havoc on your area will be able to be powered by smiles? Or the senior citizens living on a fixed income can use hope to fill their tanks or power their furnaces next winter?
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Thousands of families unable to afford to heat their homes, the costs of food and basic services skyrocketing with no viable alternatives available. Yes, we are charging towards utopia.

Everyone knew gas was going to go up, but the breakneck pace it has occured at, and for no particular reason, has left people little time to adapt even if they can afford too.
Do you feel the same about people who purchased homes during the housing bubble and are now being foreclosed on? I've seen threads on this board where there was next to no sympathy for them.
People need food. They need electricity. Most need gas to go to work no matter how economic their vehicle might be. People do not need to buy a house which they cannot afford. You are comparing apples and oranges.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Yeah. What are you people thinking. Of course the answer is to let the free market correct the mistakes of...the...free...market?

What a stupid, blindly ideological and impracticable remark.

When the free market is incapable of regulating itself because human greed has run amok, then there needs to be an outside, arbitrary regulator to assist them.
Are you still buying gas? Is someone holding a gun to your head to make you buy said gas? Assuming the answers are yes and no, respectively, then the free market is regulating itself. You are buying gas at the current market value. I can prove this on an abacus.

I'm sick and tired of everyone whining about how greedy oil companies are while they continue to pay the price of gasoline. The goal of oil companies is to make money. You don't like it? Don't buy their product. It couldn't be any simpler. If someone tries to hold a gun to your head to force you to keep pumping gas into your car, then you can ask for government intervention.
Maybe those pumps that were used to drain all of the flooding that you experienced in MO will run on pixie dust next time? Or the bull dozers that were used to help clean up the mess made after the tornadoes wreaked havoc on your area will be able to be powered by smiles? Or the senior citizens living on a fixed income can use hope to fill their tanks or power their furnaces next winter?
I don't live on a flood plain. Therefore, I didn't experience any flooding. I also don't live in a tornado-prone area and haven't even seen one since I've moved here. I chose my living situation in a non-retarded fashion and, therefore, don't need government intervention to help me clean up after myself. As far as the appeal to emotion regarding senior citizens on a fixed income, you again fail to realize that it is the government that created the problem by taxing them while they were employed, thereby disabling them from saving for themselves at a higher rate of return. No, the only one being blindly ideological here is you, since your premise is always that government is the solution without even allowing for the possibility that the government is actually the problem.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Yeah. What are you people thinking. Of course the answer is to let the free market correct the mistakes of...the...free...market?

What a stupid, blindly ideological and impracticable remark.

When the free market is incapable of regulating itself because human greed has run amok, then there needs to be an outside, arbitrary regulator to assist them.
Are you still buying gas? Is someone holding a gun to your head to make you buy said gas? Assuming the answers are yes and no, respectively, then the free market is regulating itself. You are buying gas at the current market value. I can prove this on an abacus.

I'm sick and tired of everyone whining about how greedy oil companies are while they continue to pay the price of gasoline. The goal of oil companies is to make money. You don't like it? Don't buy their product. It couldn't be any simpler. If someone tries to hold a gun to your head to force you to keep pumping gas into your car, then you can ask for government intervention.

Sure...and while were at it let's stop paying our power bills. We don't need electricity. After that let's just stop buying food. We can grow our own in our back yards and live off of that. How about medicine? Nah, what's the point? We have immune systems.

It's not like the vast majority of America depends on this sort of thing to survive right? As long as we can argue amongst ourselves that we shouldn't complain because some asshat says that the prices of all this stuff are at the "current market value" then everything will be hunky dorey. No problems. No worries.
 

idiotekniQues

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2007
2,572
0
71
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
g about how greedy oil companies are while they continue to pay the price of gasoline. The goal of oil companies is to make money. You don't like it? Don't buy their product. It couldn't be any simpler. If someone tries to hold a gun to your head to force you to keep pumping gas into your car, then you can ask for government intervention.
i find the idealistic libertarians post the most asinine comments on a daily basis. today's winner is you. congrats.



 

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