it would take alot of good reasons for me to switch to another browser.. i think firefox is the future.
In case it wasn't mentioned, Slimbrowser is awesome for tabbed browsing. Very customizable, skinnable, and I love the tab system. Double-click to close a tab, so-so pop-up blocker included. I've tried Firefox and MyIE, stuck with slimbrowser :thumbsup:
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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Well that's all nice for you guys. I suppose I'm just a clean freak and close windows after I'm done with them (like the pics you mention... open --> look --> close --> next pic click). Open in new tab = extra effort. Not to mention alt-tab is faster than point/click and ctrl-tab put together. And If you want to talk about saving RAM, then how is closing when done not the best way to do it ?
Comparison shopping is the best I could come up with... more than 3-5 windows ? You need to learn better ways to get your information so you're not all over the place, IMO.
About RSS, I use Trillian's RSS and there are a ton of other integrated RSS solutions... so that isn't exactly a good reason why tabbed browsing is better than no tabbed browsing. Do the majority of FF users even use RSS ? Do the majority of any users even use RSS ? I'll succumb to why TB is better if a good reason why multiple multiple browsing windows is NECESSARY. Really, I would. It just cries gimmick to me. FF benefits in other ways, but not with TB.
EDIT>>> I've got it... it helps if you're on dial-up. Score for all FF users! If IE does bring on TB, they will serve those users well. Until then, you guys should be proud for all DUN people.
sometimes i like to leave certain browser windows open all day.. and its much more compact when you actually use your desktop for business work to have one "browser window". rather than a bunch of IE windows... more than 1 is a crowd.
its really a matter of preference, its just that the vast majority prefer tabbed browsing, it also happens to be the future of mainstream browsing.. not the past.
ctrl-tab is much faster because you dont have to wade through all your nonbrowser apps.
the simple fact of the matter is, if closing every single browser window immediately the second after they are done using it (what, are we running short on computing power that we need to be frugal in our usage??) is the solution, then FF does that just as efficiently as well as IE.
Opening new tabs is easy.. middle click on your links instead of left clicking. Or ctrl-T, or double click on tab space.
I guess if tabbed browsing is so useless then when every single browser uses it you can save all the RAM you wish to by using DOS and a DOS based browser.. then you save the most memory and have a really easy way of having one browser window open.
Unless those have even gone to tabbed browsing, then after not being able to figure out why ppl would need tabbed browsing.. you can shoot yourself in the mouth from frustration.
its really a matter of preference, its just that the vast majority prefer tabbed browsing, it also happens to be the future of mainstream browsing.. not the past.
ctrl-tab is much faster because you dont have to wade through all your nonbrowser apps.
the simple fact of the matter is, if closing every single browser window immediately the second after they are done using it (what, are we running short on computing power that we need to be frugal in our usage??) is the solution, then FF does that just as efficiently as well as IE.
Opening new tabs is easy.. middle click on your links instead of left clicking. Or ctrl-T, or double click on tab space.
I guess if tabbed browsing is so useless then when every single browser uses it you can save all the RAM you wish to by using DOS and a DOS based browser.. then you save the most memory and have a really easy way of having one browser window open.
Unless those have even gone to tabbed browsing, then after not being able to figure out why ppl would need tabbed browsing.. you can shoot yourself in the mouth from frustration.
Nothinman
Elite Member
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There's no extra effort, you middle-click instead of single-click and instead of looking at them one at a time and switching back and forth between the links page and the pics you click on all the pics you want and then look at them all at once.
I don't use ctrl+tab, I use my mouse. When I close one tab the tabs shift over one so I don't have to move my mouse to click through all of the images. And alt+tab is only faster if the order is known, if you end up doing something else and changing the alt+tab order you end up doing it multiple times or very slowly trying to figure out which window you want.
And who cares about saving memory? Memory is cheap and free memory is wasted memory.
Just because we like having lots of tabs doesn't mean we have related information in them. I currently have 1 window with 14 tabs open with some forums, some news sites, some work related sites, etc.
I don't understand the fanaticism exhibited by IE-haters. I like IE, big deal! I tried MyIE2 once and forgot I had it installed. I tried FF, didn't get excited by anything and stopped using it after a session or two. I'm sure the opposite would be true if I had started with MyIE2 or FF (i.e. (no pun) would stick to what I had in the first place).
I'll be honest, the one thing I like most about IE is Ctrl+Enter, which I suppose is probably not all the important anyway.
<--- downloading Maxathon (née MyIE2), thanks for reminding me of its existence.
I'll be honest, the one thing I like most about IE is Ctrl+Enter, which I suppose is probably not all the important anyway.
<--- downloading Maxathon (née MyIE2), thanks for reminding me of its existence.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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- memory is an argument FF tab users use against IE "because tabs use less memory than more windows". I agree with what you said... I don't care even IF extra IE windows use an extra 50MB of RAM these days.
- How many of those 14 tabs do you actually need now ? This is what I'm trying to understand. I have one set of eyes and concentrate on one thing at a time. When I'm done with it, I close the window. If I need to get back to it for some reason (and 99% of the time I don't see why I would), I use bookmarks because I will close browser windows, just like I close any other app when I'm done with it. Do you not ?
Do you NEED tabbed browsing ?
One other thought - even when doing web-dev... 3 browser windows, max.
I'm just
and need to understand this hype.Originally posted by: rh71
- memory is an argument FF tab users use against IE "because tabs use less memory than more windows". I agree with what you said... I don't care even IF extra IE windows use an extra 50MB of RAM these days.
- How many of those 14 tabs do you actually need now ? This is what I'm trying to understand. I have one set of eyes and concentrate on one thing at a time. When I'm done with it, I close the window. If I need to get back to it for some reason (and 99% of the time I don't see why I would), I use bookmarks because I will close browser windows, just like I close any other app when I'm done with it. Do you not ?
Do you NEED tabbed browsing ?
One other thought - even when doing web-dev... 3 browser windows, max.
I'm just
How many bookmarks do you have? Do you NEED those bookmarks? After all you don't need them their to open and view webpages.
I mean you can always just search for the webpage or memorize the URLs. I just don't understand the hype.
(hint: think of tabs as temporary bookmarks.)
Oh wait, didn't IE steal the idea behind bookmarks?
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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When you close Firefox, you will lose the pages. Hence, you need bookmarks. Do you just never close FF ? 14 tabs ? For when ? Is that why you need all those tabs open there for you ?
And don't be ridiculous, you can't memorize all the URLs - that wasn't a remotely good attempt.
Yes, IE stole "favorites" from "bookmarks" of Netscape... but the difference is - FF is made out to be this "revolutionary" browser when all it does is simply improve upon pre-existing ideas. I don't know anyone that called IE revolutionary or even hyped it to the degree that "technical professionals" are doing. I'm sick of hearing that. Realistically, the 3 advantages I see are: 1) slightly faster page rendering, 2) less known security exploits, 3) plugins that .5% of the 7% of FF users, making up all internet users, use. People are making FF out to be the messiah of all that is technical and hyping every bit and piece of it that is different. Maybe if practical.
Nothinman
Elite Member
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I never close my browser windows, especially now that I've got swsusp (Linux hibernation) working.
Obviously I got by without it for years before it was available and I could get by without it again. I have used IE off and on when I'm on other machines and it's quite frustrating, so as long as I have a choice I will choose a browser with tabs.
You can't steal keyboard shortcuts. If it was, wouldn't it then be feasible to say that IE stole things like Ctrl+N from Netscape?
If you have a proper extension installed you won't lose them. Galeon does it by default, everytime I restart galeon after killing it, it asks if I want to restore my last tab session. And as I said, I really never close galeon anymore because there's no need.
So? Maybe instead of revolutionary it's evolutionary, but either way it's still better.
You must not have been around during the days of IE3, the hype wasn't as big because there were less people but IE3 was definately heralded as the second coming.
Don't forget proper CSS handling, proper PNG support, proper IMAP support in the mail client, cross-platform support, extensible UI that doesn't require a whole new shell like Maxathon to be written and I'm sure other things that I've forgotten.
So who are you to decide that we "NEED" bookmarks, but dont need tabs?
You probably agreed with 3dfx's Scott Sellars when he said how we didnt NEED 32bit color!
Yeah!!! Lets listen to you guys!
You probably agreed with 3dfx's Scott Sellars when he said how we didnt NEED 32bit color!
Yeah!!! Lets listen to you guys!
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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You're right. I shouldn't be deciding that. Like nothingman said, he got by without them. But need is a matter of necessity.
If you must have 14 tabs open in order to browse the web, so be it. My fault for criticizing what is practical and efficient vs. what is just "cool" to have.and btw, actually we DO need tabbed browsing for the general populaces information...
its like anything else, with increases in technology and constantly changing way of life.. things that weren't necessities in the past have become necessary for survival/productivity.
Do you NEED modern healthcare? Nope. Your ancestors got by without it before! But the world has changed, the complete dynamics of life have changed and if you dont live till your 80 or so.. theres a high liklihood that you could be a unexpected financial burden because of the way the system is setup.
Its the age old, chicken/egg argument..
bottom line is you are part of the past.. think of yourself and your thinking as a dinosaur.. becasue that is your equivalent.
its like anything else, with increases in technology and constantly changing way of life.. things that weren't necessities in the past have become necessary for survival/productivity.
Do you NEED modern healthcare? Nope. Your ancestors got by without it before! But the world has changed, the complete dynamics of life have changed and if you dont live till your 80 or so.. theres a high liklihood that you could be a unexpected financial burden because of the way the system is setup.
Its the age old, chicken/egg argument..
bottom line is you are part of the past.. think of yourself and your thinking as a dinosaur.. becasue that is your equivalent.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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wow all this from an arguement over TABBED BROWSING and its practical uses ? Really... ask yourself if this is really that revolutionary to our browsing ways and how has it made your life that much easier. That's all I'm out to discover. FF users are so high on... something.
OMFG FF rules! Tabbed browsing! Saves RAM ! :roll:
See FF is better in a few ways which I've listed and nothingman's gone on about. I have no problems with it "winning" a browser war. It's the drivel that gets to me.
Just download Firefox: www.getfirefox.com
You have your choice of good plugins to add additional functionality, but most importantly FF is nice and clean unlike IE (the pig)
You have your choice of good plugins to add additional functionality, but most importantly FF is nice and clean unlike IE (the pig)
That's why I said temporary bookmarks. They don't REPLACE the need for bookmarks. And only a attempt to explain to you why a person would want 14 tabs open when they can't read them all at the same time.
This is only one of the more positive aspects of tab browsing. I find that using tabs provides and increase in productivity over not using tabs, in fact my browsing habits have changed completely compared to when I didn't have tabs aviable.
It's almost as ridiculous as saying becuase a person doesn't NEED to have 14 tabs open that there is no point to doing it. He does it, and he obviously has a reason to do it, isn't that enough for you?
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
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And the people who use it will say "Yes, it's made my life just that much easier." and "Even if I could get by without it, why would I want to?". It's called progress, even something that seems really small and simple can make a huge difference in productivity and usability and tabbed browsing is one of those things.
Personally I can't fathom closing a browser window all the time, it just seems pointless since chances are good that I will want one again at some point so why not just leave it running and save myself startup time in the future?
The thing is, i'd never hire rh71 because in this fast paced and changing world of technology you must adapt.
Hence my dinosaur comment.. tabbed browsing is the future.. if you have that old mentality like Scott Sellars and rh71 you will be behind everyone and into the past.. and it is as even IE will integrate it someday.
and sadly enough its only becasue they CHOSE to be behind!
but its a very bad sign for a so-called enthusiast to purposely render themselves outdated and less productive when we compete for jobs and positions in our capitalist society.
i promise that this attitude he carries, and many others.. does or will affect their careers because its a mentality.. its not really just about tabbed browsers.
sounds silly i know, but employers look for those "amish" traits.. especially in this field.
you might as well be amish, or be a nature friendly hippy and get by only on, "what you need". -edit: <- or worse, what people TELL you that you need!!
Hence my dinosaur comment.. tabbed browsing is the future.. if you have that old mentality like Scott Sellars and rh71 you will be behind everyone and into the past.. and it is as even IE will integrate it someday.
and sadly enough its only becasue they CHOSE to be behind!
but its a very bad sign for a so-called enthusiast to purposely render themselves outdated and less productive when we compete for jobs and positions in our capitalist society.
i promise that this attitude he carries, and many others.. does or will affect their careers because its a mentality.. its not really just about tabbed browsers.
sounds silly i know, but employers look for those "amish" traits.. especially in this field.
you might as well be amish, or be a nature friendly hippy and get by only on, "what you need". -edit: <- or worse, what people TELL you that you need!!
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
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You can stop right there. I already have my dream job. Started 5 years ago right out of college. You are reading me completely wrong - call me a dinosaur all you like - I will continue to shake my head in astonishment and frustration. The next words you're going to throw at me are "forward thinker" or "outside the box" right ?
Again I ask... tabbed browsing = revolutionary ? Maybe for .5% of us. Gimmick. I'm trying hard to think of where TB will go from there... with all this "progress" talk...
Nothinman
Elite Member
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The words may be cliche, but the ideas are sound. Would you seriously say that the ability to design a solution that is easily extended/adapted in the future and/or can come up with unconventional solutions to problems is a bad thing?
Sure, if you're using the dictionary definition of the word. But if you're trying to imply that it's a useless feature designed just to fill a feature list, you're wrong. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not good. Tabbed browsing has totally changed the way I browse the Internet and it seems to have done the same for many others.
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