When are the new Nvidia cards coming out?

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I cant handle the half ass drivers from ATI anymore. I tried them twice and both times ended in flaming defeat. This latest round with a 4850.

Bad ATI drivers 2
Me 0

Back to Nvidia but would wait to make a purchase if the refresh cycle is close.
 

lavaheadache

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2005
6,893
14
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
I cant handle the half ass drivers from ATI anymore. I tried them twice and both times ended in flaming defeat. This latest round with a 4850.

Bad ATI drivers 2
Me 0

Back to Nvidia but would wait to make a purchase if the refresh cycle is close.

fwiw, Ati drivers are not bad. They are atleast equal to Nvidia drivers. I'm surprised I even responded to this kind of thread. To answer your question..... Nobody knows. I'm guessing we'll see some refreshes by the new year.
 

RallyMaster

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 2004
5,581
0
0
Uh...well. I think my ATi drivers are greatly better than my NVIDIA drivers honestly.

As soon as my monitor shuts off after 20 minutes...I artifact in every single DirectX application on my 6800GS in Server 2008. When I ran XP, whenever I ran a DirectDraw screensaver, my computer would hard lock.

I haven't tried any of the recent FarCry 2 or Crysis games on my HD4850 (I just don't care for them) but I haven't had an issue with them at all.

Crappy NVIDIA drivers: 2
RM: 0
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I understand many have great success with ATI. I have not. The exact same system that ran with an 8800GTS 640 without a single Blue Screen gets regular BSOD and driver failures with this card. When i got this I reinstalled from the ground up. No conflicts with Nvidia drivers from the old card.

I may have came off as flaming, for that I apologize. I was a bit pissed that I just sat in a 30 min queue for WoW to have the ATI driver BSOD me when I hit #20 in line. But it is typical for this thing and I had enough.

And it really irritates me because when my 8800 died I had a decision to make. Nvidia or ATI. My past experience with a 9600 Pro AIW was a nightmare driverwise. Their control panel software spiked the CPU with an apparent high priority. Which meant if you couldnt kill it before it spiked, you couldnt do a damed thing. So when I went with this 4850 I knew I was taking a gamble and apparently lost.
 

LOUISSSSS

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2005
8,771
58
91
its your OS thats corrupted or hardware as thilan29 has said.

ati makes better drivers than nvidia's half assed, unsupported, once every 4 month betas. they release real official drivers once a blue moon. and even with those, nv4.disp is still one of the top windows errors.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
I've had an ATI 4870 since July and it's been problem-free in XP with Mass Effect, Neverwinter 2, Vampire: Bloodlines, Portal, Quake 4, Half-Life 1, Quake 1.

I get freezes in Fallout 3, but so does everyone else and I got similar crashes in Oblivion with my nv 7900. Bethesda + Gamebryo engine = video driver crashing.

Are you running everything at stock? I do. If you OC your ATI may be more sensitive to it than your nv card was.
 

aatf510

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2004
1,811
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I may have came off as flaming, for that I apologize. I was a bit pissed that I just sat in a 30 min queue for WoW to have the ATI driver BSOD me when I hit #20 in line. But it is typical for this thing and I had enough.

If such a popular card (4850) w/ ATI Catalyst drivers indeed causes BSOD in such a popular game (WoW), the whole WoW/ATI community (guess how large the user base would be?) would be actively rioting all over the Internet.

In this case, it's so obvious that you are the only one with this problem, so this leads me to believe either you have software problem (bad windows/drivers install) or simply defective hardware (bad PSU/video card etc.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
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Originally posted by: toattett
Originally posted by: Genx87
I may have came off as flaming, for that I apologize. I was a bit pissed that I just sat in a 30 min queue for WoW to have the ATI driver BSOD me when I hit #20 in line. But it is typical for this thing and I had enough.

If such a popular card (4850) w/ ATI Catalyst drivers indeed causes BSOD in such a popular game (WoW), the whole WoW/ATI community (guess how large the user base would be?) would be actively rioting all over the Internet.

In this case, it's so obvious that you are the only one with this problem, so this leads me to believe either you have software problem (bad windows/drivers install) or simply defective hardware (bad PSU/video card etc.

ATi problems of various sorts with WoW are fairly well documented on the web, including BSODs

Personally I've never cared because I don't play MMORGs, but there's no denying WoW is likely the largest gaming phenomenon ever, and the OP might be better off with a nV card for this game.

As far as the age old "Company X has the better drivers!" debate, AT's own Derek Wilson put forth the best information on this I've ever seen:

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
There are only so much time and resource availability that any company has to do QA on drivers. No one can do everything, and neither NVIDIA nor AMD do.

I think they both have issues and neither one is really overall "better" than the other (though I do think AMD has the appearance of being better due to their schedule).

...

Here's the thing --

In order to get the gamer what he or she wants, a company would need to test all of their hardware to make sure things simply work and regression test all games from the past couple years with that hardware. This is never going to happen.

Both AMD and NVIDIA cut major corners.

AMD has multiple driver trunks, and a rotating schedule of only about 2 dozen titles for regression testing that do not repeat within something like 6 months to a year. If one driver breaks something, it will be at least two months until it gets "fixed" for real (as the next month might not exhibit the same problem, but it also won't necessarily be based on the same code). If one game is dropped from the regression testing schedule, it could break in one driver and not be caught for a very long time (or until reviewers start to complain about it).

We run into the problem a lot, especially with crossfire scaling, of things that used to work not working and then when we point it out, all of a sudden we've got a beta driver with a fix. It's just because AMD dropped that title from their regression testing. Over time they hit a lot of titles, but this is an optimization that does cause issues.

Because you can't have monthly WHQL drivers with the latest features on the latest hardware all regression tested on everything everyone could want to play. There isn't enough time there to do all the necessary QA. All the driver has to do is pass Microsoft's WHQL testing ... which is easier than actually working in all relevant games.

NVIDIA does something else --

They don't always test all their hardware every cycle. We'll see beta drivers tested completely first on high end hardware or newly released hardware. Older stuff is left out of testing, so we have divergent driver versions necessary for different classes of hardware. Since NVIDIA uses a unified model (at the moment), all drivers should work on all hardware, but if it hasn't been released to support a specific card then that means it hasn't been QA'd on that card.

NVIDIA regression tests with many more titles per WHQL release, but at the same time, there is much more time between WHQL releases. This gives them a longer period to look at more things, but at the same time stuff can stay broken for longer.

If all this stuff is really interesting, I could take some time and talk to AMD and NVIDIA again (we've had this discussion with them before) and I could do a write up about it explaining the pros and cons of both approaches.

Frankly, from my perspective, monthly WHQL is just a marketing tool ... it makes people feel better. But NVIDIA's approach isn't necessarily better -- it's just different.

I believe Ben Skywalker details his issues with WoW and ATi drivers in this thread as well, but I didn't read it all again.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
Yeah it sounds something specific with your setup. And a different card working in the machine without the same problems isn't necessarily indicitave of a driver problem. In my experience, ATI's drivers are much more polished and refined than NVIDIAs. I was a longtime NVIDIA user for years and was one of the people that claimed ATI drivers sucked. . . until I started buying ATI cards and then I realized I was totally wrong. ATI drivers are much better. The monthly updates are nice, too.

I'm sorry you're having problems. It could be the card itself. I'm running a 4850 in my rig and haven't had a single problem. Niether did I with my x1950Pro.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: thilan29
Maybe your card is bad? Does it BSOD when you stress it?

Very possible, I get driver recovered errors in Vista. It usually happens in games. Though one of the biggest ones is Hearts of Iron 2. A game which is basically a 2d map.

its your OS thats corrupted or hardware as thilan29 has said.

I could buy the OS is corrupted if it wasnt just ATI's driver that fails.

Are you running everything at stock? I do. If you OC your ATI may be more sensitive to it than your nv card was.

Everything is at stock. I stopped OC nearly a decade ago.

If such a popular card (4850) w/ ATI Catalyst drivers indeed causes BSOD in such a popular game (WoW), the whole WoW/ATI community (guess how large the user base would be?) would be actively rioting all over the Internet.

In this case, it's so obvious that you are the only one with this problem, so this leads me to believe either you have software problem (bad windows/drivers install) or simply defective hardware (bad PSU/video card etc.

I really dont believe it is an issue with WoW. This is the first time it has happened since I reinstalled it last week. It was just the straw that finally broke the camels back for me.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Genx87
I understand many have great success with ATI. I have not. The exact same system that ran with an 8800GTS 640 without a single Blue Screen gets regular BSOD and driver failures with this card. When i got this I reinstalled from the ground up. No conflicts with Nvidia drivers from the old card.

I may have came off as flaming, for that I apologize. I was a bit pissed that I just sat in a 30 min queue for WoW to have the ATI driver BSOD me when I hit #20 in line. But it is typical for this thing and I had enough.

And it really irritates me because when my 8800 died I had a decision to make. Nvidia or ATI. My past experience with a 9600 Pro AIW was a nightmare driverwise. Their control panel software spiked the CPU with an apparent high priority. Which meant if you couldnt kill it before it spiked, you couldnt do a damed thing. So when I went with this 4850 I knew I was taking a gamble and apparently lost.

i think it is metaphysical

some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them

Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
rose.gif
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Genx87
I understand many have great success with ATI. I have not. The exact same system that ran with an 8800GTS 640 without a single Blue Screen gets regular BSOD and driver failures with this card. When i got this I reinstalled from the ground up. No conflicts with Nvidia drivers from the old card.

I may have came off as flaming, for that I apologize. I was a bit pissed that I just sat in a 30 min queue for WoW to have the ATI driver BSOD me when I hit #20 in line. But it is typical for this thing and I had enough.

And it really irritates me because when my 8800 died I had a decision to make. Nvidia or ATI. My past experience with a 9600 Pro AIW was a nightmare driverwise. Their control panel software spiked the CPU with an apparent high priority. Which meant if you couldnt kill it before it spiked, you couldnt do a damed thing. So when I went with this 4850 I knew I was taking a gamble and apparently lost.

i think it is metaphysical

some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them

Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
rose.gif

Metaphysical my buttocks. :D

If you get bit by a dog one too many times, you will eventually put the dog to sleep.
This happens on both sides of the fence (both companies). At least Genx87 tried another ATI card even after his experience with that 9600Pro AIW. There just might be something wrong with his 4850 is all. It happens.

Now, your last sentence is a bit mysterious. Why should he choose Nvidia from now on?
He was just talking about experiences he has had, and you basically tell him to buy nvidia from now on. Sounding short. Wassup?

:::: Passes Apoppin hedge clippers for his rose overgrowth ::::

:)
 

SSChevy2001

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
774
0
0
So you didn't do any troubleshooting, and decided your just going to bash on the ATi driver team.

1) Check forums for know problems with this combination ( wow / 4850 )
3) Test with other applications for problems.
4) Test the card underclocked to see if that helps. ( RMA might be needed )
5) Try older drivers.
6) Redo windows

It looks like you bought this card with crossed fingers just waiting for something to go wrong. Bad karma

Look here's a GTX260 user having BSOD problems with WOW, maybe he should only buy ATi. What you think?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
So you didn't do any troubleshooting, and decided your just going to bash on the ATi driver team.

1) Check forums for know problems with this combination ( wow / 4850 )
3) Test with other applications for problems.
4) Test the card underclocked to see if that helps. ( RMA might be needed )
5) Try older drivers.
6) Redo windows

It looks like you bought this card with crossed fingers just waiting for something to go wrong. Bad karma

Look here's a GTX260 user having BSOD problems with WOW, maybe he should only buy ATi. What you think?

This doesn't help Chevy.

FIXED:

1) Check forums for know problems with this combination ( wow / 4850 )
3) Test with other applications for problems.
4) Test the card underclocked to see if that helps. ( RMA might be needed )
5) Try older drivers.
6) Redo windows

DONE:
 

SSChevy2001

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
774
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
This doesn't help Chevy.
You can only help someone if they want help. He thinks the grass is greener on the other side, which is not always the case as I pointed out.
 

wrangler

Senior member
Nov 13, 1999
539
0
71
Originally posted by: apoppini think it is metaphysical

some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them

Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
rose.gif

hmm. I actually like this answer but while all of the fanboys are throwing themselves off a cliff for ATI let me relate my story.

I was one of the unlucky who got sucked into buying a 680i platform. Raid didn't work, chipset ran hot and it wouldn't OC a quad worth a damn but it was stable. Ran it with a 7950GX2, then G92 8800GTS then even SLI. But I wanted something different. A while back I built my sons a computer based on P35 and I put in a 3850. His IceQ and it was dirt cheap. The little machine just ran like a dream. I was so impressed that I ditched my 680i system and everything having to do with Nvidia when I heard about the 4800 series coming out and I said to myself that I was going to go Intel and ATI all the way. SO I did. Here I sit with an X48 motherboard wanting with all of my heart to love ATI and ride off into the sunset and it just was not meant to be. IMHO, if you are into playing older games then ATI is great. But if you want to play the latest, well, go ahead and buy the game then wait a couple months for ATI to make a driver that actually works or it. There were just a lot of niggling anomolies. For example, if I touched any games gamma control and moved it from stock I would get scan lines. Some games, Clear Sky especially with Crossfire enabled would hardlock down to 5 fps and if you alt-tabbed it would return to normal fps. Desktop resolution would be messed up coming out of games....games starting in a window when supposed to be full screen. Just a lot of stuff. Much more than I am saying here..... I just put it out of my mind. Why the drivers every month if your never going to fix anything????

I had patience my friends. Lots of patience. I wanted it to work with all of my heart.
(and I know what I'm doing.........heat was monitored....fan profile to make sure everything was cool...OS was re-installed multiple freaking times.......I read every post at every site and googled and waited through 3 driver releases and tried and tried and tried)

So, I sold both 4870's on FS/FT and bought a 9800GT to hold me over and guess what, all problems disappear.

Why one ATI system so smooth and impressive and another plagued with hassles? Why a system built for ATI crossfire works better with an Nvidia card? For some, this is not the case but for me.........I wouldn't touch ATI with a 10 foot pole for a long time now.

Metaphysical maybe the answer.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
So you didn't do any troubleshooting, and decided your just going to bash on the ATi driver team.

1) Check forums for know problems with this combination ( wow / 4850 )
3) Test with other applications for problems.
4) Test the card underclocked to see if that helps. ( RMA might be needed )
5) Try older drivers.
6) Redo windows

It looks like you bought this card with crossed fingers just waiting for something to go wrong. Bad karma

Look here's a GTX260 user having BSOD problems with WOW, maybe he should only buy ATi. What you think?

First off if you read what I was saying. WoW isnt the only game this card took a shit in, just the one that sent me into my rage. ;)

Secondly I did most of the above over the past month and a half and no apparent luck.
Either I have bad luck with ATI, or ATI doesnt work for me. Either way I tried, again, and was disappointed. Back to Nvidia for me. Try to pawn this card off onto somebody or stick it in a server and let it run generic drivers.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
This doesn't help Chevy.
You can only help someone if they want help. He thinks the grass is greener on the other side, which is not always the case as I pointed out.

If he doesn't want help, isn't it ok if he just comes in here and rants? I'm sure the help will come afterward. It's like you got your feelings hurt or something. Don't take it so dang personally. It's just a video card.

P.S. I think that is the first time I have ever used the term, "dang". LOL.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
The "whose drivers are better?" is a very OS, user, and software specific question that really can only be answered by app/machine/OS.

(e.g. Just guessing, but NVIDIA drivers may be better for running Quake 4 on a 790i motherboard, with Linux as the OS. OTOH, ATi's might be better running it in Vista 64 on a CF board for all I know)

If the OP wants to buy a NVIDIA card, or ATi, or Intel, or S3 because he had bad luck with one vendor I don't think anyone is going to convince him to buy another card from that vendor "to give'm another chance because they work great for me".


Last but not least, if NYer Keys is saying "dang" head for chuch because the apocalypse is nigh.
 

SSChevy2001

Senior member
Jul 9, 2008
774
0
0
@Genx87

Sorry for my earlier post. It just I've seen to many people who just don't have any patience to troubleshoot for problems. I've recently had the good experiences with both my 8800GTS and 4870 1GB, so both have some great drivers as far as I'm concerned.

The one thing I will say is ATi's CCC sucks. Personally I don't even install it anymore, and just use ATI Tray Tools just something else you could try.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Thank for the advice. I do have the CCC installed. I will uninstall it tonight and see if it cleans up. I know this thread started bad, I was in a bad mood and probably shouldnt have even created it. But my frustrations grow with each passing driver crash. I was so hoping this would turn out and not be a 170 dollar hole in my wallet.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Has the PSU been ruled out already? Insufficient or unstable power could be the culprit.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001
So you didn't do any troubleshooting, and decided your just going to bash on the ATi driver team.

It looks like you bought this card with crossed fingers just waiting for something to go wrong. Bad karma

Because of course ATI cards could never ever have a problem. :roll:

This is the worst post in this forum for months now.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
Seems like there are lots of driver problems from both companies with Vista when compared to XP. I've been happily on XP for a while now, my Radeon has been rock solid. My previous Nvidia cards had almost zero problems too, I just remember some Alt + Tab issues with my 6800 and 7900. Good luck with what ever you do OP. I think I'm still going to stick with XP just a bit longer and enjoy never crashing. :)