apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
i think it is metaphysical
some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them
Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
Metaphysical my buttocks.
If you get bit by a dog one too many times, you will eventually put the dog to sleep.
This happens on both sides of the fence (both companies). At least Genx87 tried another ATI card even after his experience with that 9600Pro AIW. There just might be something wrong with his 4850 is all. It happens.
Now, your last sentence is a bit mysterious. Why should he choose Nvidia from now on?
He was just talking about experiences he has had, and you basically tell him to buy nvidia from now on. Sounding short. Wassup?
:::: Passes Apoppin hedge clippers for his rose overgrowth ::::
it's simple, it's time for a change; why put up with the status quo if you are dissatisfied
i'd make a political reference but i would be censored here
. . . and you only get one rose .. and this one may be loaded with thorns
- be careful or may get stuck by a metaphysical thorn;
. . . you know where! No buts about it
it appears the OP agrees with me
forget ATi ... it IS metaphysical and i don't feel like explaining the obvious to someone who says "dang"
Zstream
Diamond Member
- Oct 24, 2005
- 3,395
- 277
- 136
Or Apoppin is just as incompetent as many others are who try to pass themselves off as computer experts. I must digress, anyone who has major problems like this has other issues. Forget the video card, I am talking about CPU/Mobo/PSU/Memory etc...
I do not think I had one major problem in any game or OS on any platform since win 2000 was introduced.
I do not think I had one major problem in any game or OS on any platform since win 2000 was introduced.
/played puts out 220 days in which duration i had x800, x1800, x1900, x1950, 2900xt, 2900pro, 3870, 3870x2, 4870...also 8800gts, 7950gx2 with intel/amd cpu and motherboards, and i had EXACTLY ZERO problems with wow
so it usualy the guys installing their systems that are doing something wrong, or they have faulty hardware
bingo!
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
i think it is metaphysical
some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them
Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
Metaphysical my buttocks.
If you get bit by a dog one too many times, you will eventually put the dog to sleep.
This happens on both sides of the fence (both companies). At least Genx87 tried another ATI card even after his experience with that 9600Pro AIW. There just might be something wrong with his 4850 is all. It happens.
Now, your last sentence is a bit mysterious. Why should he choose Nvidia from now on?
He was just talking about experiences he has had, and you basically tell him to buy nvidia from now on. Sounding short. Wassup?
:::: Passes Apoppin hedge clippers for his rose overgrowth ::::
it's simple, it's time for a change; why put up with the status quo if you are dissatisfied
i'd make a political reference but i would be censored here
. . . and you only get one rose .. and this one may be loaded with thorns
- be careful or may get stuck by a metaphysical thorn;
. . . you know where! No buts about it
it appears the OP agrees with me
forget ATi ... it IS metaphysical and i don't feel like explaining the obvious to someone who says "dang"
An ATI card or Nvidia card does not CARE if you have good or bad Karma. What you quoted above, bolded, means nothing more than "ATI doesn't work in my system".
There could be an incompatibility somewhere, or he is just installing something incorrectly.
When he gets it working, or rather if, he will feel a whole lot differently about his luck.
I seriously doubt it's a hardware problem.
He just needs to backup his stuff ans start fresh on the OS. Use only the most currently drivers on the internet. Also I recommend staying away from CCC, and using ATI Tray Tools instead.
You should train ATi's employees then, because WoW has shown up on ATi's known issues list more then any other game by a HUGE margin. I have well over 200 days played in also(think I'm closing in on 300 between my toons) and in that game your best bet has always been to find the driver with the least issues and don't touch it. I never saw a driver release from ATi that rendered everything in the game perfectly, sometimes I would have to swap out drivers(the version that rendered most things in the game the best, think it was 7.8 but it's been a while since I ran it now) didn't render Kael'Thas's fight properly(not being able to see the orbs is kind of a bit deal- that would be big boy Kael, not junior).
You clearly don't play WoW. His best bet is to find the best version of drivers for WoW and stick with them if he wants to play, find the driver version that works best with the game. Either that, or for WoW at least- upgrade to Intel graphics.
To quote the OP-
So yeah, he did.
Different strokes for different folks.
I've tried both ATi and Nvidia and to be honest couldn't tell much a difference in-game. Stability was great with both platforms as was IQ and speed.
If you are experiencing BSOD's and hard locks then there is something very wrong with your setup. That's not normal behavior.
I've tried both ATi and Nvidia and to be honest couldn't tell much a difference in-game. Stability was great with both platforms as was IQ and speed.
If you are experiencing BSOD's and hard locks then there is something very wrong with your setup. That's not normal behavior.
This problem could also be caused by ATi powerplay. It could be changing clock speeds in game and causing it to stop responding at some point.
OP could try using ATI Tray Tools to clock the card at a set speed, which should fix the problem if it is a powerplay issue.
OP could try using ATI Tray Tools to clock the card at a set speed, which should fix the problem if it is a powerplay issue.
My ATI 4850 was crashing in games due to the cooler being pegged at 3% fan speed the entire time. I had to use the ATI fan speed trick in Windows to get it stable in games because the stupid BIOS was not scaling the fan past 3% until the card exceeded 80 degrees C.
I got ahold of Winflash and some ATI BIOS modding software, changed the fan speed curve, and voila, all of my problems were solved...
I got ahold of Winflash and some ATI BIOS modding software, changed the fan speed curve, and voila, all of my problems were solved...
...I still have one of those holes in my wallet but it was from Vista 64 Ultimate...
My 4850's on the other hand were great for the most part...
It really does suck when you get a great all around card and it(or it's drivers) just happens to not play nice with your 1 or 2 most played games.
Best of luck to ya...this stuff can really try your patience sometimes.
:beer:
So all this company bashing and nobody answered the original question. I also would like to know when we can expect these newer and better cards.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
i think it is metaphysical
some people just have bad luck with one vendor and naturally gravitate to the other vendor which somehow works well for them
Maybe you do not have enough patience with AMD; perhaps you should choose Nvidia from now on
Metaphysical my buttocks.
If you get bit by a dog one too many times, you will eventually put the dog to sleep.
This happens on both sides of the fence (both companies). At least Genx87 tried another ATI card even after his experience with that 9600Pro AIW. There just might be something wrong with his 4850 is all. It happens.
Now, your last sentence is a bit mysterious. Why should he choose Nvidia from now on?
He was just talking about experiences he has had, and you basically tell him to buy nvidia from now on. Sounding short. Wassup?
:::: Passes Apoppin hedge clippers for his rose overgrowth ::::
it's simple, it's time for a change; why put up with the status quo if you are dissatisfied
i'd make a political reference but i would be censored here
. . . and you only get one rose .. and this one may be loaded with thorns
- be careful or may get stuck by a metaphysical thorn;
. . . you know where! No buts about it
it appears the OP agrees with me
forget ATi ... it IS metaphysical and i don't feel like explaining the obvious to someone who says "dang"
An ATI card or Nvidia card does not CARE if you have good or bad Karma. What you quoted above, bolded, means nothing more than "ATI doesn't work in my system".
There could be an incompatibility somewhere, or he is just installing something incorrectly.
When he gets it working, or rather if, he will feel a whole lot differently about his luck.
sure it cares; who mentioned Karma?
[and my karma has been known to run over your dogma]
for example Rollo cannot get an ATi card to run properly in his system .. i notice other Nvidia fans also have this issue
--it is metaphysical
just because you don't believe doesn't mean a thing
--certainly not to me
i am betting on soon; next month should start it
Why not dump your ATi junk and get a GTX260+ or even a 280?
- the refresh is not expected to bring huge performance increases, just enough to edge the current [ati] line-up [is my guess]; the current Nvidia GPUs are certainly cheap enough
.. and all of us will have peace and your personal HW-harmony will be restored
i just started playing WoW. What are the issues, Ben?
i am playing the 14-day trial of WoW [from NewEgg's ASUS 4870/1GB] on my 4870x2 and and am only a few hours into it [i am reviewing LotRO/AoC and WoW over 56K dialup]. What should i look for? So far, i see no issues with Cat 8-10 and i now have 8-11
- WoW is a hell of a lot more fun than LotRO for me [at Level 14 i am bored with it and the crafting and the 'details'] but the WoW graphics fall short of it; and AoC blows them both away graphically and in gameplay [i liked AoC a lot and got to Level 11 but won't pay $16.50 a month; i also heard AoC gets boring after Level 50]
Anyway, what driver issues? You'd think ATi would cater to the huge WoW crowd; it is not a very demanding game and even plays OK on 56K dialup
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
- 81
I use both Nvidia and ATI over the years(currently have 7800gt card and 4870) and to be honest drivers have been solid more or less on both sides,WoW never gave me any issues on either Nvidia or ATI ( I have stopped playing WoW awhile back).
I normally find when there is a serious gaming issue its normally a faulty card or one thats overclocked too much,ie my 7800GT OC factory card will freeze/lockup after awhile in some games(Oblivion was one),now do I blame Nvidia and say their drivers are crap?..no ,I did some serious troubleshooting and found out its was the factory overclock that was causing the problem(in my case simple 10mhz underclock fixed the random freezing and lockup in those games concerned).
As to my 4870 card well thats running all my games just fine that I have thrown at it so far(quite a few to be honest).
My point is its very easy to blame Nvidia or AMD/ATi without finding the real cause of the problem,end of the day any hardware can go faulty and drivers are updated every so often for a reason ,more often to fix buggy games,throw in buggy games,users hardware/software and overclocking etc..and you have a whole new ball game as they say.
As an old timer gamer wise guess I can say I've had enough experience over the years to stay calm and find the cause of issues when ever they have poped up,however few they may be.
I would recommend both Nvidia and ATI/AMD to anybody,both have a good range of models and drivers.
Not sure with any of the newer drivers, drivers were so bad on my 1800xtx it killed the card(refused to allow the fan to spin up inside of Windows- apparently this is something they fixed now).
Some of the issues you may not end up seeing until probably a couple months of fairly heavy playing(20-30 hours a week)- that's about how long it would probably take a new player to hit Kael in The Eye. May not sound like a big deal, but when you are running a raid and 25 people have worked for several hours to get to him and you cause the raid to wipe...... let's say the board came very close to getting yanked out of the rig and snapped in half
Gave it another shot, after moving myself from MH to OH and it was a no go for me, couldn't see giant balls of energy I needed to avoid- rolled back to another driver that would exhibit flashing textures on a regular basis and it ended up working np. Big issue with bugs like that- you can not check them by yourself- you need to have a large group of people together and if they creep up, it's too late to do anything about it without ruining a run for 24 other people. As of now we have about 200 toons in my guild, several of them run Intel integrated graphics, none with an issue, it isn't a complex game.BTW- I could give you a 14 day free trial anytime, I have tons of them I can hand out.
Hmm, there is nothing to do in WoW until you hit 60, on a realistic basis the real fun won't start now until level 80. WoW is VERY much build around end game, not getting to max level(which you learn to do as quickly as possible). I can get a toon from 1-70 in about 9 days now, have 130 days played at level 70 on my mage and still didn't get everything done(now that all shifts to 80). Also, last I was aware you could only level until 20 in WoW on the trial, that honestly isn't enough to get a taste of it, they are still teaching you the very basic control mechanics).
You can level in WoW over dial up without a huge issue, you can even pull off some 5 mans without too much of a problem- but WoW is built around end game raiding and pvp and there you will find dial up just falls down and dies.
Denithor
Diamond Member
- Apr 11, 2004
- 6,298
- 23
- 81
Well, I tried to go from a 9600GT to a 4850 when I got in on the $150 Best Buy deal at launch week. But even once I got the temps under control I couldn't play WoW smoothly. Lots of jerkiness and occassional hardlocks forced me to return the 4850 and go back to the 9600GT (which played it just fine at max everything).
I have tried ATi cards off and on over the last several years (9800 Pro was great, x1900gt was good while it lasted) but the 4850 just didn't work for me. Went to an 8800GTS 512MB next and now use a GTX 260. Recently I'm buying only nVidia because their cards fold better than ATi.
I have tried ATi cards off and on over the last several years (9800 Pro was great, x1900gt was good while it lasted) but the 4850 just didn't work for me. Went to an 8800GTS 512MB next and now use a GTX 260. Recently I'm buying only nVidia because their cards fold better than ATi.
Mem
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2000
- 21,476
- 13
- 81
Denithor with all due respect that means nothing,it could have been left over Nvidia drivers even after uninstall still in the OS,faulty 4850 card or some other issue,I've had three Nvidia DLL files trying to load when I uninstalled my Nvidia drivers even using DriverSweeper in safe mode(I used regedit to remove those 3 remaining) when I went back to ATI.
You could of got another 4850 card and things probably would of been fine,on the otherhand if you picked up a faulty 9600GT card you would be back at square one,see my point.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Not sure with any of the newer drivers, drivers were so bad on my 1800xtx it killed the card(refused to allow the fan to spin up inside of Windows- apparently this is something they fixed now).
Some of the issues you may not end up seeing until probably a couple months of fairly heavy playing(20-30 hours a week)- that's about how long it would probably take a new player to hit Kael in The Eye. May not sound like a big deal, but when you are running a raid and 25 people have worked for several hours to get to him and you cause the raid to wipe...... let's say the board came very close to getting yanked out of the rig and snapped in half
BTW- I could give you a 14 day free trial anytime, I have tons of them I can hand out.
Hmm, there is nothing to do in WoW until you hit 60, on a realistic basis the real fun won't start now until level 80. WoW is VERY much build around end game, not getting to max level(which you learn to do as quickly as possible). I can get a toon from 1-70 in about 9 days now, have 130 days played at level 70 on my mage and still didn't get everything done(now that all shifts to 80). Also, last I was aware you could only level until 20 in WoW on the trial, that honestly isn't enough to get a taste of it, they are still teaching you the very basic control mechanics).
You can level in WoW over dial up without a huge issue, you can even pull off some 5 mans without too much of a problem- but WoW is built around end game raiding and pvp and there you will find dial up just falls down and dies.
thanks Ben, i really appreciate the comments
i can understand how these driver issues would frustrate the hell out of you. Although Gothic3 was buggy for everyone, it was a disaster on my x850xt and i even upgraded to x1950p/512MB and still put up with buggy drivers .. for 100 hours! .. they finally fixed it after i played all 3 endings .. it is pretty good now ... 2 or 3 years later
i expected the trial to be just that - a trial or a taste of all 3 games. Only with LotRO did i have more than a few days and it bores me to tears as a single player; and i loved the Tolkien World in books. AoC i really liked - it pulls you in quick and provides the right level of frustration and immersion for me. WoW i am just starting and have about a week of the trial left - i realize that it is all about huge raids and maxing your avatar for PvP - all MMORPGS have better MP, i think. Personally, i prefer SP worlds like Oblivion and Gothic [without the bugs]. However, if i have issues with my X2's drivers and WoW, i will switch to my Nvidia partition and try 280GTX as an IQ comparison. I was hoping you found general issues WoW that are current and more easily identifiable.
- Actually, this "56K comparison" was a "pretense"; so i could actually play a frigging game instead of just benchmark it; and i got 2 weeks of *3* games
- i need to do something like this again
Agreed. However, let me preface this by saying that I have only used Matrox, Voodoo and nVidia...the Rage debacle put a bad taste in my mouth that never went away.
Examples:
I got a new dev box early this year, which came with an ATi consumer card (the 2600xt, I believe...). Unfortunately, I was stuck with generic Windows drivers resulting in no dual-monitor capabilities. After digging around, I found out that ATi has never supported NT server for their consumer cards. My option was to either replace it with FireGL, or move on. I opted to go with a 9600GT, and all was good.
Years ago, my wife worked as a trainer and support for an embroidery company. The software cost 18K per seat, and it's essentially CAD, but most customers ran the software on consumer boxes. Far too many support calls were coming in for crashing issues, with no clear answer, and my wife asked me my opinion. I told her to ask a bucket of customers about the video card: all replied ATi. Latest drivers didn't help. Every one of them that switched to nVidia saw their crashes disappear.
Along the same topic, a good friend of mine is a CAD designer. Everyone he works with has choice words for ATi, none of them family-friendly.
I'm sure this sounds like bashing, but really, I'm just helping to point out that ATi won't work for everyone in every configuration. I've personally had a few issues with nVidia in the past as well, but nothing bad enough to get me to try switching to ATi.
apoppin
Lifer
And i notice your entire experiences are "years ago"
. . you talk about Rage .. 1999 .. and NT server .. and 2nd hand
i say it is metaphysical
anecdotal
just as many people switched from Nvidia for similar reasons and never look back .. when they do they get screwed, like the OP, but in reverse
- i say, stick with what you like and what works best for you
you know: .. mercedes or dislexus
:Q
Coke or Pepsi ,, choose wisely
. . . Nvidia or AMD
[forget intel for gaming ..
.. wisely!]
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