what's the solution eliminate freeloaders of welfare?

[nehalem256]

Adjust for inflation please.

And at what point prior to 2001 were housing prices higher than 2001... adjusted for inflation?

 

[Schmide]

And at what point prior to 2001 were housing prices higher than 2001... adjusted for inflation?

I didn't say that. The major problem with the housing crisis was the extremely (artificially) low interest rates that didn't allow for a correction after the dot com bust.

I'm not absolving Clinton from contributions to the issue, but I am blaming Bush for most of it.

Edit: Basically you posted a graph that was very misleading and I showed you why.

 

[child of wonder]

Here's a few ideas.

1. Dial back Social Security Disability benefits. These benefits should be for someone who is physically unable to work, such as a paraplegic or a simultaneously blind and deaf person, not someone whose back hurts.

2. Federally subsidize birth control and condoms and require those receiving government assistance use them.

3. Lifetime cap on benefits, like food stamps. It's not the tax payers' responsibility to feed someone forever. The cap can go up the more someone works and pays in taxes.

4. Reduce food stamp benefits to basic necessities and raw ingredients so those receiving food stamps will need to put some effort into preparing their food rather than spending the benefits at convenience stores and fast food.

5. End the war on drugs and prostitution. Prison is another form of welfare when we're locking up adults that are doing nothing but hurting themselves. We waste far too much money on prisons.

 

[child of wonder]

Ok, Im sorry. I clearly meant that when Bush took office housing prices were the highest UNTIL THAT POINT.

Sure, but they continued to climb for 5 years after that. If we hold today's president responsible for the state of the economy after 4 years we have to do the same with his predecessor after 5 years.

 

[nehalem256]

I didn't say that. The major problem with the housing crisis was the extremely (artificially) low interest rates that didn't allow for a correction after the dot com bust.

I'm not absolving Clinton from contributions to the issue, but I am blaming Bush for most of it.

Edit: Basically you posted a graph that was very misleading and I showed you why.

There was absolutely nothing misleading about the graph. It showed the housing was already a bubble BEFORE bush took office.

And interest rates are set by the federal reserve not the President. And why were interest rates low? Because of Clinton's failure to prevent the dotcom bubble.

Sure, but they continued to climb for 5 years after that. If we hold today's president responsible for the state of the economy after 4 years we have to do the same with his predecessor after 5 years.

And what should Bush have done to pop the housing bubble(preferably something that would not have been suicidal to his re-election)? If the housing bubble was so obviously bad why didn't John Kerry use it to defeat Bush in 2004?

 

[WackyDan]

Baloney. Bush was President during the housing bubble, it was his job to manage the administration and do what was necessary to correct problems before they got out of hand.

President is the leader and chief manager. If he thought Clinton's policies would lead to a housing bubble, why didn't he stop it ?

The truth is, he was clueless and believes in little or no regulation, hence he let the housing bubble develop, let oil companies drill in the Gulf without proper supervision, appointed incompetent friends to run FEMA which made effects of Katrina much worse, let banks and insurance companies run themselves into the ground, started two wars he didn't finish, maybe could have prevented 9/11 if he had kept Clinton's focus on terrorism, unbalanced a working fiscal policy, etc, etc.

And that is what Romney supporters want to go back to.

Baloney is right... Bush tried to regulate and was block by Barney Frank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/b...mac-and-fannie-mae.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

[Schmide]

There was absolutely nothing misleading about the graph. It showed the housing was already a bubble BEFORE bush took office.

That's bullshit. Adjusted for inflation it was exactly on the growth line. The reality is a bump happened and his recipe for fixing it, tax cuts, and the low interest rates of the fed led to a bigger problem.

And interest rates are set by the federal reserve not the President. And why were interest rates low? Because of Clinton's failure to prevent the dotcom bubble.

When the cure is worse than the sickness? Ok.

And what should Bush have done to pop the housing bubble(preferably something that would not have been suicidal to his re-election)? If the housing bubble was so obviously bad why didn't John Kerry use it to defeat Bush in 2004?

Yes. He should of done something. At the very least he should of not said the quote I quoted above. I guess you absolve him of everything? Great president or greatest president?

 

[child of wonder]

And what should Bush have done to pop the housing bubble(preferably something that would not have been suicidal to his re-election)? If the housing bubble was so obviously bad why didn't John Kerry use it to defeat Bush in 2004?

First, what's more important? Getting re-elected or taking action in an attempt to prevent a recession? H.W. took an unpopular stance and raised taxes when it was necessary which cost him his re-election. That took guts. Do we want leaders that are more concerned with getting re-elected than doing what's right?

Second, I don't know. Kerry, like Romney, was one of those "is that the best the Democrats/Republicans have to offer?" candidates.

I'm not saying Bush had some sort of crystal ball that would have allowed him to avoid the recession, I'm only pointing out that we should judge the presidents fairly, no matter what party they belong to. If Bush presided for 5 years over a massive housing bubble that resulted in the largest recession in decades we can't give him a pass on that while condemning Obama for an economy he's almost 4 years into.

Both presidents have been economic failures.

 

[Jhhnn]

Baloney is right... Bush tried to regulate and was block by Barney Frank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/b...mac-and-fannie-mae.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Absolute hogwash. Repubs merely established plausible deniability, and you've fallen for it, because it's what you want to believe.

Barney Frank had zero chance of stopping Repubs from doing anything they wanted in the HOR, because Repubs held a strong majority. They sure as Hell didn't allow Dems to stand in their way over anything else they wanted, that's for sure.

 

[Jhhnn]

There was absolutely nothing misleading about the graph. It showed the housing was already a bubble BEFORE bush took office.

Yes, there was a grease fire on the stove. Bush threw gasoline on it.

And interest rates are set by the federal reserve not the President. And why were interest rates low? Because of Clinton's failure to prevent the dotcom bubble.

The FRB and Treasury act in tandem, hand in glove. There's no way in Hell that the FRB dropped rates through the floor w/o the approval of the Bush Admin, despite their supposed "independence".

And what should Bush have done to pop the housing bubble(preferably something that would not have been suicidal to his re-election)? If the housing bubble was so obviously bad why didn't John Kerry use it to defeat Bush in 2004?

Well, they could have had regulators act as watchdogs rather than cheerleaders. They could have not upped the requirements that the GSE's make more "affordable" loans. They could have not allowed the SEC to rule that investment banks could lever up to 30:1. They could have not invoked a Civil War statute to stymie state regulators. They could have not cut top tier taxes, not created an enormous windfall of hot money. GWB could have refrained from preaching the "Ownership Society" from the bully pulpit. They could have done a lot of things, all of which were contrary to their ideological fervor for free market self regulated banking, and their desire to enable the lootocracy.

All of that would have possibly decreased chances of Bush's re-election, which was obviously the most important thing on the agenda- win at any cost. That hasn't changed a bit, either.

 

[ericlp]

It's really simple. Food stamps and welfare checks are handed out at the end of the workday. Sign up is 6:00am. You show up to the sign up place and if you're over 5 min past 6 you don't eat that day. After sign up orange vests are handed out and welfare and food stamps recipients are transported to the location where they will work that day. Jobs include trash cleanup on the highway, giving dogs baths at the local no kill shelters, etc.. If you are too disabled to work then you will have to be cleared by the govt doctors who are very we'll paid to be thorough in their reports. At the end of the 10 hour workday welfare or food stamp recipients will then be handed their money on a card that only they can use.

I got one better... My neighbor two houses down both of her kids are on disability. They are fat and just play X-box all day ... No motivation ... No desire... The only time I see them is when they walk out to the mail box to collect their fat checks for doing ZILCH! Not only that the dumb fuck mother is trying to get the third kid on welfare but she keeps getting denied.

Anyway... We don't just mail them a check, and food stamps for the rest of their pathetic lives.

1) Every Year they have to be re-evaluated for benefits.
2) Make them work at cleaning tables at Mcdonalds / Pick up trash / Mow older peoples lawns / make license plates .... Etc...etc... Make them work for half way houses and old people serving meals... ANY THING really. Not just sit around all day on an X box.
3) Want housing assistance? No... You don't get to live in a rental house and FUCK NO the government doesn't pay half for section 8 house that you choose where you want to live. You live in a Low income home where you share a bathroom with 10 other people. Want to live in a nice house in a good nighborhood? Go get a fucking job!
4) Food Stamps... You can only buy maybe 50 items. Mac/Cheese, Peanut Butter, milk, bread, oatmeal... etc...etc... Want you steak and lobster? FUCK YOU. Peanut butter has enough protein. Anything that is a day old like bread and vegetables should be consumed first by food stamp holders ... wanna eat high on the hog... go get a job!!!
5) Random piss tests that check for alcohol ... any findings? Denied benefits for life...
6)No Drivers License ... A DL is a privileged if you have enough cash to afford a car then why are you on assistance?


I could probably think of 10 other things if I were pressed but... ya know nothing is going to change.

And for all you fuckers out there that are gonna say look @ Obama and the "D's" they just GIVE AWAY everything!

I say a big fuck you to you because this same BS was going on when Bush was in office ... He didn't do a fucking thing to change any of it. He just kept the mofo's on the system and printed out millions of checks to the lazy assholes.

Something NEEDS to be done. I just hate it when I'm in line at the grocery store watching the fucks holding EBT cards buying t-bones and I'm using my own hard earned cash to buy fucking the left over on sale hamburger.

 

[Jhhnn]

I got one better... My neighbor two houses down both of her kids are on disability. They are fat and just play X-box all day ... No motivation ... No desire... The only time I see them is when they walk out to the mail box to collect their fat checks for doing ZILCH! Not only that the dumb fuck mother is trying to get the third kid on welfare but she keeps getting denied.

Anyway... We don't just mail them a check, and food stamps for the rest of their pathetic lives.

1) Every Year they have to be re-evaluated for benefits.
2) Make them work at cleaning tables at Mcdonalds / Pick up trash / Mow older peoples lawns / make license plates .... Etc...etc... Make them work for half way houses and old people serving meals... ANY THING really. Not just sit around all day on an X box.
3) Want housing assistance? No... You don't get to live in a rental house and FUCK NO the government doesn't pay half for section 8 house that you choose where you want to live. You live in a Low income home where you share a bathroom with 10 other people. Want to live in a nice house in a good nighborhood? Go get a fucking job!
4) Food Stamps... You can only buy maybe 50 items. Mac/Cheese, Peanut Butter, milk, bread, oatmeal... etc...etc... Want you steak and lobster? FUCK YOU. Peanut butter has enough protein. Anything that is a day old like bread and vegetables should be consumed first by food stamp holders ... wanna eat high on the hog... go get a job!!!
5) Random piss tests that check for alcohol ... any findings? Denied benefits for life...
6)No Drivers License ... A DL is a privileged if you have enough cash to afford a car then why are you on assistance?


I could probably think of 10 other things if I were pressed but... ya know nothing is going to change.

And for all you fuckers out there that are gonna say look @ Obama and the "D's" they just GIVE AWAY everything!

I say a big fuck you to you because this same BS was going on when Bush was in office ... He didn't do a fucking thing to change any of it. He just kept the mofo's on the system and printed out millions of checks to the lazy assholes.

Something NEEDS to be done. I just hate it when I'm in line at the grocery store watching the fucks holding EBT cards buying t-bones and I'm using my own hard earned cash to buy fucking the left over on sale hamburger.

Nice rant, hitting all the usual raver's talking points.

So, uhh, how fat are those checks, anyway?

Don't section 8 landlords make money off the deal? The grocery outlets? Food processing companies? Walmart? Medical providers?

"Get a job!" isn't exactly a valid argument, either, in the face of an official 8%+ unemployment rate, with actual un- and under- employment rate much higher.

So much for the fabled Job Creators, huh?

 

[Agent11]

In my opinion:

1. Their should be a job for everyone.
2. Everyone should work for the betterment of society and not them self.
3. All work done must be done to advance society as a whole.
4. Those who cannot work should be supported by society.
5. Those who can work but refuse to should be forced to work.
6. If 5 fails, then those people can be removed from society.


Today to many people think of nothing but them self, people need to realize that what is important isn't you and me, what is important is society as a whole, and our lives should be devoted to advancement of society.

You seem to really, really hate personal freedom. And how do you intend to "remove" people from society?

Stalin sent them to gulags.

 

[nehalem256]

Absolute hogwash. Repubs merely established plausible deniability, and you've fallen for it, because it's what you want to believe.

Barney Frank had zero chance of stopping Repubs from doing anything they wanted in the HOR, because Repubs held a strong majority. They sure as Hell didn't allow Dems to stand in their way over anything else they wanted, that's for sure.

You mean like the Democrats did under Obama

 

[nehalem256]

That's bullshit. Adjusted for inflation it was exactly on the growth line. The reality is a bump happened and his recipe for fixing it, tax cuts, and the low interest rates of the fed led to a bigger problem.

So you cannot read graphs?

Yes. He should of done something. At the very least he should of not said the quote I quoted above. I guess you absolve him of everything? Great president or greatest president?

So one quote by Bush is what sunk the economy

 

[Joepublic2]

Immediately end disability, medicare, medicaid, food stamps and phase out unemployment, WIC and social security. You have to work to eat; if you can't the reasons why are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. It's not my job to feed you or house you.

I agree with the plans for lifetime benefits but let's be honest here, that's not going far enough. When a person hits their benefits cap and still cannot find a job something has to be done or they're just going to go hungry and resort to crime to obtain the necessities of life. Those freeloaders that lack the means to support themselves will be placed into internment camps where they will processed into usable goods/services for the benefit of society, thus keeping crime and unemployment low and maintaining the social order.

 

[Agent11]

So you propose we follow the examples of Stalin and Hitler.

I hope you are being facetious. Otherwise you promote a policy I would gladly go to war and kill and die to see never instituted in my country.

'Those freeloaders that lack the means to support themselves will be placed into internment camps where they will processed into usable goods/services for the benefit of society, thus keeping crime and unemployment low and maintaining the social order.'

Especially heinous bit there.

 

[Jhhnn]

You mean like the Democrats did under Obama

I referenced the HOR. No Republican sponsored bill wrt the GSE's emerged from the Repub controlled body at the time in question, when it was entirely within their power to do so. It was all cover, blowing smoke, establishing some advance street cred for the gullible masses.

It worked, too, at least among the Repub Faithful. They'll buy anything that confirms what they already believe.

 

[sportage]

Freeloaders? Welfare?
Depends on who u mean.
Lots of rich people get huge breaks. Are they freeloaders cause they are entitled?
Or business that get tax breaks or pay none t all?

Freeloading isn't just for the poor, don't u know...?
Plenty of rich Freeloaders as well.
People assume the rich are not part of that group. Wrong!

Plus this.
Would u rather have some guy getting food stamps and rent assistance, or breaking into homes and cars as a thief to get by?
Would u rather pay a little for welfare or replace your big screen 3D surround sound tv and stereo system because some poor guy broke in and took it while you we're at work to resale?

Then add in the extra tax cost to you for providing more police and prisons and tax payer paid legal court support to those criminals.

Which ever way u look at it, you pay. You always have paid. You will always pay, one way or another.
Soooooo.... Which option are u more willing to support.
The guy in your living room snatching your new 65" 3D tv along with your entire 3D blu-ray collection?
Or paying a few dollars in taxes for welfare handouts?

Its one or the other. You only get 2 choices. There isn't a 3 rd choice.

 

[ericlp]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?featur...top_uri=/watch?v=tzxzzms5OxQ&feature=youtu.be

I figured that this would come out sooner than later. sad


Posted from Anandtech.com App for Android

 

[michal1980]

Freeloaders? Welfare?
Depends on who u mean.
Lots of rich people get huge breaks. Are they freeloaders cause they are entitled?
Or business that get tax breaks or pay none t all?

Freeloading isn't just for the poor, don't u know...?
Plenty of rich Freeloaders as well.
People assume the rich are not part of that group. Wrong!

Plus this.
Would u rather have some guy getting food stamps and rent assistance, or breaking into homes and cars as a thief to get by?
Would u rather pay a little for welfare or replace your big screen 3D surround sound tv and stereo system because some poor guy broke in and took it while you we're at work to resale?

Then add in the extra tax cost to you for providing more police and prisons and tax payer paid legal court support to those criminals.

Which ever way u look at it, you pay. You always have paid. You will always pay, one way or another.
Soooooo.... Which option are u more willing to support.
The guy in your living room snatching your new 65" 3D tv along with your entire 3D blu-ray collection?
Or paying a few dollars in taxes for welfare handouts?

Its one or the other. You only get 2 choices. There isn't a 3 rd choice.

Only because your setup doesn't allow for a 4rd choice. Its called a flase choice falacy.

IE.

Would you rather die by being shot, or blown up?

No other choice, pick one.

 

[Jhhnn]

Only because your setup doesn't allow for a 4rd choice. Its called a flase choice falacy.

IE.

Would you rather die by being shot, or blown up?

No other choice, pick one.

Dimness.

Articulate other choices & the consequences thereof.

Welfare is a way to stimulate commerce, with recipients acting as a conduit for liquidity to be maintained in the economy. It's necessary because offshoring & automation have partially replaced employment as a means to produce goods & services & to distribute liquidity.

From the perspective of the financial elite, it serves multiple purposes.

First off, we don't need for everybody to work for them to profit. Quite the contrary. Corporate profits have soared even as employment plummeted. If everybody were allowed to work & to earn, scarcity would give way to oversupply, and profits would disappear. In today's economy, that's a function of enormous productivity.

It also provides a safer & more consistent environment for profit to occur while providing rich propaganda opportunities. Creating the impression that welfare recipients are dragging us down rather than the financial elite pushing us down is a necessary part of the illusion.

If automating production weren't more profitable than just hiring people, it wouldn't happen. If loaning money to the govt to pay welfare weren't more profitable than paying wages, that wouldn't happen either. If money spent on welfare didn't go around in swirls & eddies, ultimately arrive back at the top of the heap, it wouldn't be done.

The truth is that being on welfare doesn't pay worth a damn, and that recipients of partial welfare like food stamps & EITC are there because the jobs they have don't pay worth a damn, that their paychecks are incapable of supporting the economy w/o supplement.

Without social welfare payments, vast areas of delusional Red State America would see severe economic decline.

 

[HeXen]

I got one better... My neighbor two houses down both of her kids are on disability. They are fat and just play X-box all day ... No motivation ... No desire... The only time I see them is when they walk out to the mail box to collect their fat checks for doing ZILCH! Not only that the dumb fuck mother is trying to get the third kid on welfare but she keeps getting denied.

Anyway... We don't just mail them a check, and food stamps for the rest of their pathetic lives.

1) Every Year they have to be re-evaluated for benefits.
2) Make them work at cleaning tables at Mcdonalds / Pick up trash / Mow older peoples lawns / make license plates .... Etc...etc... Make them work for half way houses and old people serving meals... ANY THING really. Not just sit around all day on an X box.
3) Want housing assistance? No... You don't get to live in a rental house and FUCK NO the government doesn't pay half for section 8 house that you choose where you want to live. You live in a Low income home where you share a bathroom with 10 other people. Want to live in a nice house in a good nighborhood? Go get a fucking job!
4) Food Stamps... You can only buy maybe 50 items. Mac/Cheese, Peanut Butter, milk, bread, oatmeal... etc...etc... Want you steak and lobster? FUCK YOU. Peanut butter has enough protein. Anything that is a day old like bread and vegetables should be consumed first by food stamp holders ... wanna eat high on the hog... go get a job!!!
5) Random piss tests that check for alcohol ... any findings? Denied benefits for life...
6)No Drivers License ... A DL is a privileged if you have enough cash to afford a car then why are you on assistance?


I could probably think of 10 other things if I were pressed but... ya know nothing is going to change.

And for all you fuckers out there that are gonna say look @ Obama and the "D's" they just GIVE AWAY everything!

I say a big fuck you to you because this same BS was going on when Bush was in office ... He didn't do a fucking thing to change any of it. He just kept the mofo's on the system and printed out millions of checks to the lazy assholes.

Something NEEDS to be done. I just hate it when I'm in line at the grocery store watching the fucks holding EBT cards buying t-bones and I'm using my own hard earned cash to buy fucking the left over on sale hamburger.

Bolded is the part i hate the most and i witness it fairly regularly. I'd rather see Stamps go to pay for healthier meals only and limits on some items...like no buying 10lbs worth of Tbones and chicken. No soda's, chips..etc. No swanson dinners...but real food only, veggies, flour..etc and make them prepare their meals.

but if we make them do odd jobs, who pays to babysit their kids?

Dimness.

Articulate other choices & the consequences thereof.

Welfare is a way to stimulate commerce, with recipients acting as a conduit for liquidity to be maintained in the economy. It's necessary because offshoring & automation have partially replaced employment as a means to produce goods & services & to distribute liquidity.

From the perspective of the financial elite, it serves multiple purposes.

First off, we don't need for everybody to work for them to profit. Quite the contrary. Corporate profits have soared even as employment plummeted. If everybody were allowed to work & to earn, scarcity would give way to oversupply, and profits would disappear. In today's economy, that's a function of enormous productivity.

It also provides a safer & more consistent environment for profit to occur while providing rich propaganda opportunities. Creating the impression that welfare recipients are dragging us down rather than the financial elite pushing us down is a necessary part of the illusion.

If automating production weren't more profitable than just hiring people, it wouldn't happen. If loaning money to the govt to pay welfare weren't more profitable than paying wages, that wouldn't happen either. If money spent on welfare didn't go around in swirls & eddies, ultimately arrive back at the top of the heap, it wouldn't be done.

The truth is that being on welfare doesn't pay worth a damn, and that recipients of partial welfare like food stamps & EITC are there because the jobs they have don't pay worth a damn, that their paychecks are incapable of supporting the economy w/o supplement.

Without social welfare payments, vast areas of delusional Red State America would see severe economic decline.

i'm pretty sure we are talking about those who abuse the system and finding ways to prevent abuse. not ending welfare entirely. The ones who do not have a job and do not look for a job..ever are not being "supplemented", they are being provided for period.

 

[Svnla]

<snip>

Something NEEDS to be done. I just hate it when I'm in line at the grocery store watching the fucks holding EBT cards buying t-bones and I'm using my own hard earned cash to buy fucking the left over on sale hamburger.

Read this thread = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2272752

and see how I spoke about healthy and cheap meals are possible if I plan and budget ahead when I used my own hard earned money. See how other posters spoke about those on welfare/food stamp could not be expected to do so, $4 per pound chicken, all nature/free range/fancy and expensive meats.

I was shocked to see the link you posted above, 15 kids for that lady, no husband(s) to be found anywhere, and she blamed everyone else (guverment including of course) but herself for her own problems.

<snip>
"Get a job!" isn't exactly a valid argument, either, in the face of an official 8%+ unemployment rate, with actual un- and under- employment rate much higher.

So much for the fabled Job Creators, huh?

And we should re-elect BO for 4 more years of what you just said?

I know, I know..."but..but...but..Buuuuuusssshhhhhh/Congress/The Pope/Mother Theresa/Fill In The Blank Excuses"

 

[Veliko]

Bolded is the part i hate the most and i witness it fairly regularly. I'd rather see Stamps go to pay for healthier meals only and limits on some items...like no buying 10lbs worth of Tbones and chicken. No soda's, chips..etc. No swanson dinners...but real food only, veggies, flour..etc and make them prepare their meals.

but if we make them do odd jobs, who pays to babysit their kids?

Why are so concerned about what food they're buying with their welfare stamps?

Exactly what are you jealous of?

i'm pretty sure we are talking about those who abuse the system and finding ways to prevent abuse. not ending welfare entirely. The ones who do not have a job and do not look for a job..ever are not being "supplemented", they are being provided for period.

You are always going to get people like that, and fighting it gets to the point of vanishing returns.

It's one of those things that so many people get angry about, yet that anger is out of proportion to the size of the problem.