What's hurting the middle class?

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: techs
.
7) Health care policies that are encouraging huge increases in health care while delivering less care.

Here in MA this will be the biggest bane on the middle class IMHO now that insurance is mandatory for those whom the state deems can afford it..basically everyone that makes more than minimum wage...I know that if this law was in effect when I was contracting I would have had to heavily leverage credit and at the time I didn't live anything even close to an extravagent life.

add that with the astronomical cost of living if you want anything of a reasonable commute, and the skyrocketing cost of child care due to other associated costs (cost of living, commuting costs, state taxes and regulations)...and then the cost of schooling if you want your child to be able to read at a normal time or avoid being stabbed and you are already in debt...not to mention any medical costs as well as home repair and or auto problems...

Funny thing is, Massachusetts has one of the lowest bankruptcy rates in the country.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Yep, screw the American Dream.

I see the American dream as a moving target. Your envisioning may differ from my own for instance. Believe me Dave, I'm not at all happy about the contemporary dynamics of American life. However, I also think people who fail to incorporate a conservative financial plan that allows for bad case senarios, are indeed dreaming, and that can become a nightmare!

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Yep, screw the American Dream.

I see the American dream as a moving target. Your envisioning may differ from my own for instance. Believe me Dave, I'm not at all happy about the contemporary dynamics of American life. However, I also think people who fail to incorporate a RESPONSIBLE financial plan that allows for bad case senarios, are indeed dreaming, and that can become a nightmare!

Fixed for ya. 😉

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That works 🙂 I know how sensitive some of you are to the term conservative 😛

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Funny thing is, Massachusetts has one of the lowest bankruptcy rates in the country.

Don't we also have one of the highest per capita though as well? not sure on the forclosure statistics either but I do know that our exodus numbers grow every day as people don't go banktrupt here instead they just pack up and leave for more affordable living.

The interesting thing is the transformation this state has gone through in the years I have lived here...it used to be primarily a blue collar mecca with a few high end holdouts however now it seems as if the majority of things are luxury this and luxury that leaving the average people to move on out of the city and even further into the burbs if not the sticks.

I am lucky in that my wife and I are debt free but had either she or I made a few slightly wrong moves in the past we might be in it pretty deep now...

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: techs

Your post has already been proved false.
Why continue?
p*wned.

is your aim to make as little sense as possible or is that just the result of poor comprehension and or composition skills...

I fail to see how high medical costs and their corelation to bankruptcy filings negate the article in question, if anything this data would solidify its premise and dismiss the points which are directed at people being foolhearty with their money....the article clearly states that medical expenses and lack of insurance due to high costs seriously impacts families incomes/savings in a negative manner.

The article is basically about how Americans live above their means and therefore they use bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Since more than half the bankruptcy filings are as the result of unexpected medical cost the basic premise is flawed.

So you're so sure that half of all the bankruptcy filings are due to ONLY unexpected medical cost?

Yes. When the bankruptcy bill was debated we went all through this. Many studies were done that proved this.
btw since the bankruptcy bill has anyones credit card costs gone down? No. And that was all the right wingers could harp on is that it was costing them money that people were declaring bankruptcy to easy and the new law would lower everyones costs of credit cards. Just more profit for one of the most profitable businesses in America.

I PM'd Eaglekeeper so hopefully he will chime in shortly.

Would like to know more about the most recent law that went into effect where they were supposed to double the minimum but seeing 10x that.

$15 went to $150.[/quote]

I believe the new law only sets a MINIMUM payment amount. The credit card companies are free to set the amount as high as they want to. And with the new bankruptcy law they now have an incentive to raise it above the minimum.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
That works 🙂 I know how sensitive some of you are to the term conservative 😛

I used to use that term all the time. But conservatives have kinda shown their "financial planning ass" for the last 6 years.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
That works 🙂 I know how sensitive some of you are to the term conservative 😛

I used to use that term all the time. But conservatives have kinda shown their "financial planning ass" for the last 6 years.

Them thar folk ain't no conservatives. They be neocons :light:

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Funny thing is, Massachusetts has one of the lowest bankruptcy rates in the country.

Don't we also have one of the highest per capita though as well? not sure on the forclosure statistics either but I do know that our exodus numbers grow every day as people don't go banktrupt here instead they just pack up and leave for more affordable living.

The interesting thing is the transformation this state has gone through in the years I have lived here...it used to be primarily a blue collar mecca with a few high end holdouts however now it seems as if the majority of things are luxury this and luxury that leaving the average people to move on out of the city and even further into the burbs if not the sticks.

I am lucky in that my wife and I are debt free but had either she or I made a few slightly wrong moves in the past we might be in it pretty deep now...

Massachursetts has the 4 lowest rate, not volume, of bankruptcies in the country with around 280 per 100,000 households. The national average is over 500 per 100,000 households. I think that was what you were referring to in that statement.

As far as foreclosures, I can look it up and see if I can find anything.

And as far as people leaving MA, I couldn't tell ya, so I'll take your word for it. 😉

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
That works 🙂 I know how sensitive some of you are to the term conservative 😛

I used to use that term all the time. But conservatives have kinda shown their "financial planning ass" for the last 6 years.

Them thar folk ain't no conservatives. They be neocons :light:

True dat! Can we have the conservatives of the 70's and 80's again please?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
That works 🙂 I know how sensitive some of you are to the term conservative 😛

I used to use that term all the time. But conservatives have kinda shown their "financial planning ass" for the last 6 years.

Them thar folk ain't no conservatives. They be neocons :light:

True dat! Can we have the conservatives of the 70's and 80's again please?

The closest thing is the.................Democrats.

and it is a BAD thing that high paying jobs in Massachusettes are going to the South were salaries are lower. We want salaries in the South to be as good as Massachusetts.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

Ya, the Heritage foundation.... great, unbiased source there. :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: techs

Your post has already been proved false.
Why continue?
p*wned.

is your aim to make as little sense as possible or is that just the result of poor comprehension and or composition skills...

I fail to see how high medical costs and their corelation to bankruptcy filings negate the article in question, if anything this data would solidify its premise and dismiss the points which are directed at people being foolhearty with their money....the article clearly states that medical expenses and lack of insurance due to high costs seriously impacts families incomes/savings in a negative manner.

The article is basically about how Americans live above their means and therefore they use bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Since more than half the bankruptcy filings are as the result of unexpected medical cost the basic premise is flawed.

So you're so sure that half of all the bankruptcy filings are due to ONLY unexpected medical cost?

Yes. When the bankruptcy bill was debated we went all through this. Many studies were done that proved this.
btw since the bankruptcy bill has anyones credit card costs gone down? No. And that was all the right wingers could harp on is that it was costing them money that people were declaring bankruptcy to easy and the new law would lower everyones costs of credit cards. Just more profit for one of the most profitable businesses in America.

I PM'd Eaglekeeper so hopefully he will chime in shortly.

Would like to know more about the most recent law that went into effect where they were supposed to double the minimum but seeing 10x that.

$15 went to $150.

I believe the new law only sets a MINIMUM payment amount. The credit card companies are free to set the amount as high as they want to. And with the new bankruptcy law they now have an incentive to raise it above the minimum.
[/quote]

True, they now have incentive to purposely put people into bankruptcy.

Eaglekeeper said he will join the thread when he gets home from work later tonight.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

Ya, the Heritage foundation.... great, unbiased source there. :roll:

As opposed to some leftwinger from boston?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

Ya, the Heritage foundation.... great, unbiased source there. :roll:

As opposed to some leftwinger from boston?

Would you prefer a leftwinger from Montgomery, Alabama?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Massachursetts has the 4 lowest rate, not volume, of bankruptcies in the country with around 280 per 100,000 households. The national average is over 500 per 100,000 households. I think that was what you were referring to in that statement.

As far as foreclosures, I can look it up and see if I can find anything.

And as far as people leaving MA, I couldn't tell ya, so I'll take your word for it. 😉

I was referring to income, sorry for the lack of clarification on my part.

 

[piasabird]

It is a lot harder for the average american to file for bankruptcies. It is a lot easier for a large corporation than it is for a private citizen. I have seen companies tell the municipality hey lower our taxes or we will leave. Then they get lower taxes and the citizens paying their taxes en up paying more to make up the difference. The little guy just cant win.

 

[ahurtt]

The government bemoaning the middle-class (or anybody for that matter) for spending irresponsibly. . .?! Oooohh, that is rich.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

Why do righties love to throw around useless stats? You post read like a Fwd:Fwd: e-mail, probably for good reasons.

-Cars are plentiful, people give them away now. So a poor person has some POS that runs and is worth $400, that makes them rich?
-TV, VCRs, microwaves,DVD players, etc. are things that people buy yearly and hand down or donate. Since China makes all this crap it is cheap. The days of $500 VCRs are gone, unless you have been frozen since 1980. Are you saying someone is well off because they have a hand-me down DVD player that was $50 new and is not worth $10?

Our baseline for "poor" is not Africa. We are the richest country in the world and we should be judged on how we treat the worse off among us. Of course talking to a middle classed white boy who has no real world perspective is a futile endeavor.

 

[zendari]

Someone would be $50 less in debt without a $50 DVD player.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: zendari
Someone would be $50 less in debt without a $50 DVD player.

Ah yes, only the rich can watch DVD's, of course, silly me.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: zendari
Someone would be $50 less in debt without a $50 DVD player.

Someone has reading comprehension issues, color me surprised. Maybe you should go out and meet a few poor people and get back to us on how spoiled they are. Just because you were born with privileges that your parents handed you does not make you an expert on real life.

Poor people don't use CCs to buy DVD players, they don't have credit. They have one or more jobs to buy food.

 

[thebigdude]

Originally posted by: zendari
Someone would be $50 less in debt without a $50 DVD player.

Excellent point. You would be shocked at some of the things the idiots around here on welfare sell foodstamps to buy.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.

The so called scope of "basic" has increased:

# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
# Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
# Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher

Text

If people bought cars without the automatic brake systems, the crash-resistant steel frames, or the dual airbags that they lacked in the past cars would be cheaper too.

What does "the poor" have to do with the OP? Do you enjoy bashing the poor even in a thread that is clearly about the middle class? Do you think you're better than they are? To all of your stats above, I say "SO?"

By the way, in today's wacky world of e-tailing, you can get some of those items for FREE if not paid. Maybe visit the hot deals forum instead of thinking of ways to bash the poor or non CEO/corporate worshippers and you'll see. I paid a whopping $31 (that includes tax) for a VCR, a 36" (yes, 36 inch) RCA TV and a movie a few years ago. I have two DVD players that I was paid a total of $55.00 to take home. Not to mention a FREE PC, free digital camera and numerous free items. Don't give the the crap that people who have these things necessarily pay lots of cash for them. Get our of your room and dream world you little snot nosed kid.