zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
What this article really shows is that inflation is underreported. Income is up 75% but basic expenses are now 75% rather than the 58% it used to be? That doesn't add up. The government is underreporting inflation to make the economy look better than it really is and to reduce SS obligations.
One of the biggest problems in the USA is skyrocketing housing costs. If you want to buy a house you just have to spend more. If the interest rate goes up a couple of points you will see even more foreclosures.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
- 534
- 126
Yes, but remember it takes two, the addict and the drug pusher. If you put back the restrictions from the past on the pusher (credit card companies) what kind of withdrawals will the addicts(irresponsible credit card users) go through and will the retailers and merchants cry that the economy is going to go down because of it.
You would need politicians that won't back down from such an austerity plan and constituents that would support them, but today neither has the backbone nor the resolve to do it.
We have been brainwashed that greed is good, competition means every man for himself, buy now pay later, cheaper is better, always low prices.
Along comes a politician promising you can have your cake and eat it too backed by the credit card companies, who do you think most people would vote for?
As for the credit cards targeting the college campuses, don't they have to get permission from the college administration first before they can solicit?
I've been saying this for years now.
We'll find out the truth soon enough with an all out crash that will make 1929 look like a cakewalk.
Yes, in Toontown where you live it may seem that way. In reality a crash like that of 1929 is impossible now. Some outside force would have to cause a collapse of the entire economy.
The New World Order is the thing that is most "hurting the middle class."
This is just the Central Bankers who scam the World into being dominated by their control of credit and the issuance of fiat currency (money they create out of nowhere and loan into circulation).
A middle class can threaten the Central Banker's monopolies. That's why the trend today is towards destroying everyone who can be a threat.
The goal is EVERYONE pushed down and dumbed down to the level of surfs. Like in Mexico where there is no middle class just a few super wealthy and a vast hord of pion slaves.
The entire World forced down onto it's knees into surfdom by a criminal "elite" is the direction the planet is going.
The middle class today is slowly waking up. But the vast majority of the OTHERS are one of two main types.
[1] Those who ignore it.
[2] Those who bootlick. Scum of every major catagory: (reporters, cops, politicians, legal profession, business, etc.)
The spiriral down is a con game. A feeding frenzy of corruption is leading the way down.
Everything else is just a symtom of the total sickness of the criminal elite. Let's just take one great example. The flood of illegal aliens across the USA's southern border with Mexico. A nation of 107 million yet 1/4 of them are in the USA illegally. 25-30 million. If you want to talk about our Middle Class being destroyed, you can't ignore all these invaders who are destroying the USA working man's wages and his family.
A job in a meat packing plant years ago payed over 20$ an hour. Today 8$ and crumby benefits. Why? Because illegal immigrants will work as slaves. Companies like Tyson Foods just love it. So does all the packing and cheap labor industries.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
All the economic factors such as taxes, credit card debt are just Central Banker finacial scams. They can be stopped by us taking back the control of our own Government from a majority of corrupt politians who serve not us but THEM.
Also, "middle-class" is just another label. We are either free men or someone's slave. When we have a corrupt Government destroying the middle class all that really is -- is classic feudalism. The super rich protecting themselves by stomping on the necks of free men. Well they can try anyways. I don't plan on willingly going prostrate before them in worship. Either by playing stupid and letting them do it that way, or by going along with them hoping for a better position on the totem pole as an enforcer of their system on others.
This is just the Central Bankers who scam the World into being dominated by their control of credit and the issuance of fiat currency (money they create out of nowhere and loan into circulation).
A middle class can threaten the Central Banker's monopolies. That's why the trend today is towards destroying everyone who can be a threat.
The goal is EVERYONE pushed down and dumbed down to the level of surfs. Like in Mexico where there is no middle class just a few super wealthy and a vast hord of pion slaves.
The entire World forced down onto it's knees into surfdom by a criminal "elite" is the direction the planet is going.
The middle class today is slowly waking up. But the vast majority of the OTHERS are one of two main types.
[1] Those who ignore it.
[2] Those who bootlick. Scum of every major catagory: (reporters, cops, politicians, legal profession, business, etc.)
The spiriral down is a con game. A feeding frenzy of corruption is leading the way down.
Everything else is just a symtom of the total sickness of the criminal elite. Let's just take one great example. The flood of illegal aliens across the USA's southern border with Mexico. A nation of 107 million yet 1/4 of them are in the USA illegally. 25-30 million. If you want to talk about our Middle Class being destroyed, you can't ignore all these invaders who are destroying the USA working man's wages and his family.
A job in a meat packing plant years ago payed over 20$ an hour. Today 8$ and crumby benefits. Why? Because illegal immigrants will work as slaves. Companies like Tyson Foods just love it. So does all the packing and cheap labor industries.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
All the economic factors such as taxes, credit card debt are just Central Banker finacial scams. They can be stopped by us taking back the control of our own Government from a majority of corrupt politians who serve not us but THEM.
Also, "middle-class" is just another label. We are either free men or someone's slave. When we have a corrupt Government destroying the middle class all that really is -- is classic feudalism. The super rich protecting themselves by stomping on the necks of free men. Well they can try anyways. I don't plan on willingly going prostrate before them in worship. Either by playing stupid and letting them do it that way, or by going along with them hoping for a better position on the totem pole as an enforcer of their system on others.
Sounds like a big bunch of fruitcake to me, maybe because of the conspiracy-talk frothing-at-the-mouth bit. I got bored and didn't finish reading; you should really tone it down.
But hey, being forced into surfdom doesn't sound half bad! I'll be hanging ten!
What SUX is the contributers of this forum who do nothing but flame other poster's original opinions.
What i explained above is basicly exactly what is really happening in our World. He who has ears to hear, let them hear. The rest of you either just STFU or read again the rules of conduct on this forum.
You don't even need to look to Mexico for that. Look back a hundred years, to when America was ruled by families such as the Rockerfellers and Morris (of Phillip Morris), of oil, tobacco, and rail tycoons. There were no middle class back then. It was 1% rich, and 99% poor. Kids didn't go to school, they began work at 6 years old. What can a 6 year old do better than an adult? They can clean chimneys better! They can go under the houses and clean the toilet bowls better. Their fingers were more nimble working some machinery.
The biggest BS i keep hearing is that the Mexicans are doing the jobs that Americans don't want. So how the hell do other industrialized countries get those jobs done? The answer is that those American companies aren't willing to pay wages that Americans would do those jobs for.
no one including myself said it was.
I am not gloating, I am stating that everyone makes choices, choices that if you are not careful will bite you in the ass.
What I am saying, just as the article does is that it is a contributing factor.
A contributing factor that can be controlled by the individual immediately, not like the national debt or the squandering of tax money by the goverment.
Sure sounds like it. That's the only thing you keep focusing on.
You still don't get it. The middle-class is having a hard time being middle-class. That's the point. The middle-class is having home ownership. Middle-class means going to a decent school. Middle-class means a good education. Middle-class means good medical care. All these are a lot more difficult for the middle-class, and the article explains why.
Exactly the BS that the current Administration keeps feeding the mushrooms. Oh you forgot? We are all in the dark being fed BullSh-t. At least that is the elitist mindset responsible for the BS. Free men never buy into being treated like that.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/immigr...y_neocons_responsible_for_protests.htm
Check out what the BS'ers are feeding us.
Remember the recent street protests held in the USA courtesy of our horde of 25+ million illegal aliens? That was all set up courtesy of a Public Relations Firm payed by Bush and Fox. In the beginning it all backfired and those millions of illegal aliens began waving Mexican flags. heeheehe. They were supposed to wave USA flags. Quickly, trucks arrived to hand out to the crowds of these illegal alien criminals American flags to wave.
Oh and if you like your ignorance as mushrooms, sit back and watch YOUR JOB DISSASPPEAR.
http://www.rense.com/general68/slits.htm
The USA Senate is pushing through a Bill to allow USA Corporations the freedom to ship into the USA as many foreign workers as they want to do OUR JOBS!.
What is so wrong is of course is that we who are true USA residents are supposed to be in control of our own Government so that it always looks out for our own best interests. Remember those days? When we used to have self-governance here in America?
Look at the World. Look at other Nations. Most of the super populated one's like China, Mexico, Indonesia and India have no substantial middle-class between the super rich and the poor. Why? Because of the consolidation of power into fewer and fewer hands.
That is exactly the trend all Western Nations are headed towards today. The hordes of poor are being allowed to cross into the rich Nations to destroy the middle-class and drive EVERYONE down to the level of powerless pion.
The solution would be courage. All these pions need to stop running like cowards and revolt. Most of these poorest Nations like Mexico have a vast horde of natural resources. Plenty of wealth for all to share. I'm not talking about communism. I'm talking about creating a Constititional Republic where fair laws create opportunities for everyone willing to work hard and put the effort in to improve their lives. That just cannot be done where a ruling elite class scams, murders and pillages for it's own private gain.
One thing I think Michael Moore has gotten right is his assertion that the reason most people don't mind the rich getting richer, is that they really believe they will be rich themselves one day.
@Straightalker....revolution will come, it all works in cycles. The problem as I see it, is that in the past, the technology was never enough to overcome the masses. Now, or in the future?
@Straightalker....revolution will come, it all works in cycles. The problem as I see it, is that in the past, the technology was never enough to overcome the masses. Now, or in the future?
Revolution does not come in cycles. There is next to zero chance that a revolution can occur in a modern Western society. Unrest, yes-- but not revolution. There are just crazies that occasionally try to blow things up or shoot people.
My reference to being foolhardy was in that you "think" you are not risking anything, however one can never expect the unexpected...who knows what catastrophy is down the road which could seriously impact your financial stability. Also how are you to know who exactly lives within their means? just because you see someone with a car or other item which you deem expensive you have no idea how they prioritize their income. Your town is similar to mine in terms of its socio/economic standing, as I live in Woburn. The problem we both face are less than great public school systems and mediocre standard of living re. the town itself, housing is still astronomical in both areas though when compared to other states/areas.
Not trying to say you require a masters in finance to post on the subject, just wondering if you actually read the whole book and could honestly agree with everything they put fourth and follow it as gospel, also I would be curious to whether or not the writer himself lived like that....I would be willing to bet the chances are no. Fiscal conservatism and living below ones means (which is what the book preaches) is a good idea in theory, but the reality is that many work pretty hard and occasionally want to be extravagent and see some kind of tangible reward...occasionally buying something nice does not equal being irresponsable.
As I mentioned above, malden is ok, but I don't believe its school system is ranked much along the same lines of Winchester, Lexington, Newton, Wayland, Dover, Acton or any of the other areas with really good school systems...private school will cost you dearly, and don't know if you are using daycare at all but for a center expect the low end to run you $1,400 and many are $1,800 and up a month.
Your suggestion makes less sense though when you apply it to the Boston/Massachusetts area which surprises me that you would make it...anything affordable is currently outside of the 495 belt and that is being pushed back and back at a rapid pace, if you live just on the 495 belt you are looking at about an hour at least each way into the city every day, can be worse depending on the frequency of traffic or train delays. Then there is the matter of the mass transit system going up something along the lines of 30% next year which will add to commuter costs, as well as the cost of gas and auto maintence....
The price I quoted was for Woburn, not even a really nice town nor is it that convenient to the city for work....
What you suggest equates to people taking on either uncomfortable and unreasonable living arrangements or monster commutes with high overhead in travel costs that many who make minimum wage won't be reimbursed.
I think that too many feel or rather want to feel that everyone else is to blame especially regarding personal responsability...as someone said below it is easy for us to blame others and envy the rich as we someday hope to be there ourselves...the reality as this article clearly points out is that personal fiscal responsability or lack thereof in terms of needless spending really isn't a major factor in the overextension of peoples budgets...outside factors such as housing, health and child care costs, tax burdens, low wages, and heavy college debt are the primary factors and that comparabily we don't spend much if anything more than previous generations did yet many want us to believe that people are reckless with their spending....it takes the heat off of government and puts it right back onto your neighbor...
College debt from high tuition costs, unexpected medical expenses especially plaguing those who cannot afford the high cost of healthcare insurance, high cost of living eg. rent, travel for work, taxes you name it....people are spending but it isn't so much on ferraris and louis vuitton but rather the essentials manage to put many in the hole...college tuition and the lack of real and honest financial aid hurts many.
So you would rather put the blame on the poor children and poor families for not being able to support their school systems? the problem is that the schools are underfunded because the people in the districts don't make enough money to contribute to them as the affluent areas do...
Nice in theory but the reality is that many don't have the ability to put something even if it is a little aside for savings...
It is nice to think that individuals are to blame all of the time, but the facts speak against that argument heavily in this case...
Not even close. While the article does touch on healthcare costs being a major problem, it goes totally against the common misconception that people who live above their means in frivously wasting money on luxury items generally end up bankrupt...rather it states that what many economists equate to needless spending cost less or the same as what people in past generations spent on every day items due to advances in manufacturing and or distribution which lower costs...
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Yes, but remember it takes two, the addict and the drug pusher. If you put back the restrictions from the past on the pusher (credit card companies) what kind of withdrawals will the addicts(irresponsible credit card users) go through and will the retailers and merchants cry that the economy is going to go down because of it.
You would need politicians that won't back down from such an austerity plan and constituents that would support them, but today neither has the backbone nor the resolve to do it.
We have been brainwashed that greed is good, competition means every man for himself, buy now pay later, cheaper is better, always low prices.
Along comes a politician promising you can have your cake and eat it too backed by the credit card companies, who do you think most people would vote for?
As for the credit cards targeting the college campuses, don't they have to get permission from the college administration first before they can solicit?
So then what to do....it is the double edged sword...economists will deride people for needless wasteful spending and over leveraging credit, but should people either stop spending or using credit then the economy will tank...
I agree on the college campuses, the admin has to give approval which is dispicable, but I am betting many colleges, especially state universities feel underfunded as it is and will use any handout they possibly can to get behind the eight ball...
Oh well, smoking companies personal responsability argument was already negated in Mass one can only hope the same will come about when creditors come under the gun.
techs
Lifer
- Sep 26, 2000
- 28,559
- 4
- 0
So you're so sure that half of all the bankruptcy filings are due to ONLY unexpected medical cost?[/quote]
Yes. When the bankruptcy bill was debated we went all through this. Many studies were done that proved this.
btw since the bankruptcy bill has anyones credit card costs gone down? No. And that was all the right wingers could harp on is that it was costing them money that people were declaring bankruptcy to easy and the new law would lower everyones costs of credit cards. Just more profit for one of the most profitable businesses in America.
Yes. When the bankruptcy bill was debated we went all through this. Many studies were done that proved this.
btw since the bankruptcy bill has anyones credit card costs gone down? No. And that was all the right wingers could harp on is that it was costing them money that people were declaring bankruptcy to easy and the new law would lower everyones costs of credit cards. Just more profit for one of the most profitable businesses in America.
[/quote]
I PM'd Eaglekeeper so hopefully he will chime in shortly.
Would like to know more about the most recent law that went into effect where they were supposed to double the minimum but seeing 10x that.
$15 went to $150.
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,043
- 32,546
- 146
Yes sir. Here in central Florida, housing costs have more than doubled just since the turn of the century. There have been articles in the newspapers about how many EMS workers, teachers, ect. are priced right out of housing market@the wages they earn.
It is obvious that it is a combination of factors both self-induced, and those beyond the individual's control i.e. soaring housing and power costs, difficulty in obtaining, and the expense of health insurance resulting in huge uninsured medical expenses, ect.
I would have to number myself among those who have had the personal experience of knowing many people who live on the bleeding edge of their income, paycheck-to-paycheck, and if they lost their current employment, would face financial disaster. They drive new cars, have nice homes and furnishings, boats, jet skis, Harleys, ect. but often are on a refinanced or 2nd mortgage for debt consolidation, aren't saving much or at all@this point, and often fight with their spouses over money related matters. Some have already ended in divorce, and the loss of all those luxury items.
The article points out the factors that go beyond poor fiscal prudence, but it would certainly improve the aforementioned friends, relatives, &acquaintances situations, if they would exercise some. My point is, that with all the factors that negatively effect us, to execute such a irresponsible financial plan is pouring petro on the fire. It doesn't seem too much to ask IMHO, that Americans plan for the worst, and hope for the best. Too many I know, seem to plan for nothing/little, and screw hoping, just live la vida loca.
Yep, screw the American Dream.
It's now the Mexican dream, twenty people pile into one house, one car etc etc
unless of course you are rich.
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