What's hurting the middle class?

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt
Also I totally disagree with your statements on elimating the debt. Debt reduction will allow for less interest payments of course, but there is an opportunity cost associated with all spending. Think of debt as the mortgage on your house. Sure paying it all off is great, but most people need food to eat, pay for education for children, have many other costs associated with everyday life. Government is in the same situation, sure you can starve your spending but long term it will cost you. For example if you cut spending on education grants, or the health of your people you could see people who cannot work and will need to live off the government and you may stop many kids from going to higher education and reduce your nations productivity. It's not as easy as you say. Can you all of a sudden pay of your house's mortgage? Think of all the things you would have to give up to do so...your car? food? heat? electricity? etc. Totally unreasonable idea on your part.

I paid off my mortgage 24 years early and didn't give up anything. Actually save 150k in the 401k while doing so. Do I win a prize?



And I disagree with you to an extent Stunt. Difference between spending and spending wisely. We pay nearly 400 billion in interest each year. If tax cuts can stimulate the economy, how about letting the people spend their own 400 billion instead of the government. Works the same way as a tax cut, eh?

Analogous to saying cutting taxes to zero = infinite revenue or infinite spending = infinite revenue because of the associated growth with each.

The government could spend more wisely and, more than likely, stimulate the economy in the process by having a smaller burden to pay each year.

We all hope for the most efficient use of our limited resources. But it's not as simple as paying off all your debts in a faster time period. I imagine you were able to pay off your mortgage because you are older and didn't have to pay for children, education and other expenditures you have earlier in life. Now imagine you are always having kids, always have to pay for education, and your ability to pay your mortgage payments is cyclical. (economic cycles are natural events)

Is government being wasteful? Yes. Is debt reduction the solution? No.

Waste reduction is debt reduction (at least deficit reduction).

Oh, and I'm 37 and have two kids at home (6 and 12). Nothing to do with age. REAL personal responsibility and fiscal management!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Hell in 2005 manufcaturing jobs make up 10%, much lower than the data above.

Are you stating that the statistics of 14% are wrong or are you stating that manufacturing has added 40% jobs since 2005? Manufacturing has indeed grown in the last few months (first time since 2001) but it's around 100k jobs, not 4 million (4% would have added nearly 4 million jobs).

I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt

Hell in 2005 manufcaturing jobs make up 10%, much lower than the data above.

Are you stating that the statistics of 14% are wrong or are you stating that manufacturing has added 40% jobs since 2005? Manufacturing has indeed grown in the last few months (first time since 2001) but it's around 100k jobs, not 4 million (4% would have added nearly 4 million jobs).

I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

14% was from 2000
10% was from 2005

There was a decline 2000-2005.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

14% was from 2000
10% was from 2005

There was a decline 2000-2005.

Sorry, missed that!

 

[Engineer]

Related: Credit card companies hurting as more and more paying off debt.

In March, U.S. cardholders paid down 20.6 percent of total credit card debt, up from 17.9 percent a year earlier, according to an analysis by Barclays Capital of one portion of the market - $400 billion of credit card debt sold to investors as securities.

That was the highest payoff rate in the five years tracked by Barclays.

According to the Federal Reserve, during the fourth quarter of 2005, consumer debt, which includes credit card debt and auto leases, represented 5.71 percent of total homeowner debt, down from 6.4 percent in the fourth quarter of 2000. That was the lowest level in a decade.

American consumers have not curbed their appetites for borrowing. During the fourth quarter, 13.86 percent of disposable personal income of Americans was consumed by debt payments of all kinds, up from 12.77 percent five years earlier.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Related: Credit card companies hurting as more and more paying off debt.

In March, U.S. cardholders paid down 20.6 percent of total credit card debt, up from 17.9 percent a year earlier, according to an analysis by Barclays Capital of one portion of the market - $400 billion of credit card debt sold to investors as securities.

That was the highest payoff rate in the five years tracked by Barclays.

According to the Federal Reserve, during the fourth quarter of 2005, consumer debt, which includes credit card debt and auto leases, represented 5.71 percent of total homeowner debt, down from 6.4 percent in the fourth quarter of 2000. That was the lowest level in a decade.

American consumers have not curbed their appetites for borrowing. During the fourth quarter, 13.86 percent of disposable personal income of Americans was consumed by debt payments of all kinds, up from 12.77 percent five years earlier.

It's either get rid of the debt or die.

What did they expect?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt
Also I totally disagree with your statements on elimating the debt. Debt reduction will allow for less interest payments of course, but there is an opportunity cost associated with all spending. Think of debt as the mortgage on your house. Sure paying it all off is great, but most people need food to eat, pay for education for children, have many other costs associated with everyday life. Government is in the same situation, sure you can starve your spending but long term it will cost you. For example if you cut spending on education grants, or the health of your people you could see people who cannot work and will need to live off the government and you may stop many kids from going to higher education and reduce your nations productivity. It's not as easy as you say. Can you all of a sudden pay of your house's mortgage? Think of all the things you would have to give up to do so...your car? food? heat? electricity? etc. Totally unreasonable idea on your part.

I paid off my mortgage 24 years early and didn't give up anything. Actually save 150k in the 401k while doing so. Do I win a prize?



And I disagree with you to an extent Stunt. Difference between spending and spending wisely. We pay nearly 400 billion in interest each year. If tax cuts can stimulate the economy, how about letting the people spend their own 400 billion instead of the government. Works the same way as a tax cut, eh?

Analogous to saying cutting taxes to zero = infinite revenue or infinite spending = infinite revenue because of the associated growth with each.

The government could spend more wisely and, more than likely, stimulate the economy in the process by having a smaller burden to pay each year.

We all hope for the most efficient use of our limited resources. But it's not as simple as paying off all your debts in a faster time period. I imagine you were able to pay off your mortgage because you are older and didn't have to pay for children, education and other expenditures you have earlier in life. Now imagine you are always having kids, always have to pay for education, and your ability to pay your mortgage payments is cyclical. (economic cycles are natural events)

Is government being wasteful? Yes. Is debt reduction the solution? No.

Waste reduction is debt reduction (at least deficit reduction).

Oh, and I'm 37 and have two kids at home (6 and 12). Nothing to do with age. REAL personal responsibility and fiscal management!

Cheers to you good sir!

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Chem/Bio/Pharma...

PA is nice. I have a brother who lives in Western Mass (around Amherst) so I know where you were talking about as well. That area seems pretty nice also (and rel affordable, at least it was 3 yrs ago when he bought his house.) Very pretty when we go to visit, but serendipity brought us here. I'm not sure how many jobs are there tho vs the Boston area.

NC, blah. Fundies, heat & humidity and bugs. Give me the West or the NE, I'd never want to live in the South.

There a huge number of companies in the Philly/NJ area so where we are at seems a good compromise between affordability, good schools, access to jobs and nice surroundings. Bucks is close enough to the city to be convient, but rural enough to be an enjoyable place. Old commute took me through Newark. Now I pass cows and horse farms on the way to work and its unbelievably relaxing. (N. NJ drives me crazy, way too crowded.)

Hey Hafen,

Well looks as if we are right as we are in related industries...I have been working for big pharma for the past three years in IS/IT as a systems analyst mainly in the lab computing area....was just in PA visiting a few of our sites...

Western Mass is dead for jobs that pay anything even close to a liveable salary, you really have to be inside the 495 belt to be paid a decent wage and even that is iffy, the city is really where it is at...

With the other poster, one has to remember that many today charge virtually everything, so if you consider buying basic clothing, food, and other necessities on credit as overspending then I don't know what to tell you...