What's hurting the middle class?

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Oh really,

Autoworkers who used to thrive on overtime now find it tough to keep up their lifestyles.

The United Auto Workers' legal department has handled the bankruptcies of nearly 10,000 of its members, retirees and their families in Michigan since 2002, according to Detroit News research of court records. UAW lawyers estimate that Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 filings in Michigan have been growing at a 10 percent annual clip in recent years.

The bankruptcies show that many Michigan autoworkers are failing to scale back their lifestyles in the face of massive changes slamming the state's bread-and-butter industry.


I know too many people outside the UAW who live on credit in order to one up the Jones's with something bigger and better while living on the edge of financial ruin.

So I ask who's fault is this all? And you say congress and the president they are overspending and overtaxing us, and I ask who elected them the trees or was it the dogs running down the street, no it was us because we love the lies that they tell us since the truth is not what we want to hear, and then you say what truth is that?

Would you vote for someone that tells you are greedy, wretched, miserable always looking out for number one at the expense of your fellow man or do you vote for a politician that tells you the other side is the cause of all this and are taking away your American dream, and by electing me I will tax the rich and make sure you get yours since you are Americans and it is your right to be entitled to all of this.


In this country the foundation is the people and it seems the people have become apathetic, self serving, greedy, self rightous, and the congress and the president is the reflection we hate to see when we look in the mirror because that reflection is us.

I'm not sure that you can pick one group that has the UNION attitude to make the point for the entire article. The stats are there for the reading. Interesting that the average CC debt in the US is over $8,000 while the MEDIAN CC debt is $1,900. Those that run up the debt kick it's ass...the rest live within means (or so it seems).

If you go down further into the article

Autoworkers aren't the only ones who live beyond their means. Too many American workers don't save enough money, a host of studies show.

And the group I am picking is the majority of the people who's eye has a greater appetite than their belly and get very jealous if they see their neighbor with something nicer than them. Just look at the other forums.

I remember when credit cards were hard to get and the rest of us did get by back then by prioritizing and not spending on any of our wants until our needs were fully paid for.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Engineer
I'm not sure that you can pick one group that has the UNION attitude to make the point for the entire article. The stats are there for the reading. Interesting that the average CC debt in the US is over $8,000 while the MEDIAN CC debt is $1,900. Those that run up the debt kick it's ass...the rest live within means (or so it seems).

Damn, I'd have a coronary if I found out the credit card was sitting at $1900! I raised a huge fuss about it crossing $1500. The tolerance some people have for their own debt is astonishing.

 

[da loser]

so does anyone want to explain why companies haven't come in and paid the debt in exchange for a lesser percentage?

i've done this with friends on limited amounts 1-5k in exchange for 10% interest.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: Engineer
I'm not sure that you can pick one group that has the UNION attitude to make the point for the entire article. The stats are there for the reading. Interesting that the average CC debt in the US is over $8,000 while the MEDIAN CC debt is $1,900. Those that run up the debt kick it's ass...the rest live within means (or so it seems).

Damn, I'd have a coronary if I found out the credit card was sitting at $1900! I raised a huge fuss about it crossing $1500. The tolerance some people have for their own debt is astonishing.

Are you talking about paying interest on that or paying it off? My CC routinely goes well above that level but I pay it off. I only use it to get the 1%/3%/5% rebates (I get paid about $500 a year to use my card FTW! ). I can only assume that I'm not part of that statistic.

However, $1,900 isn't a deal breaker. If over 50% have amounts below $1,900 and the AVERAGE is $8,000, there are some in the top 50% that have HUGE bills.

55% of people in the US don't carry a balance according to the other article I posted.

Still seems like it's other factors (housing costs, medical costs, etc) that are driving the majority of the middle class Americans into problems. Not simply keeping up with the Jones (exceptions notwithstanding)

 

[6000SUX]

dmcowen is a notorious troll, as you all must know from reading his senseless attacks. Our current household income is unimportant; what is important that we live in the Boston area just fine without being rich. Acquaintances making the same money are in debt, but not us. It's very simple: no matter how much you spend, if you are above the poverty level you can spend less. Nobody NEEDS a new car, NEEDS a nice house, NEEDS any other luxury. Avoiding things you can't afford used to be called "making ends meet", but it seems to be a forgotten idea. Americans are spoiled.

No, I didn't waste my time reading the entire article. My point was disregarded: that a 38% tax increase on a 75% earnings increase does not constitute a crushing tax burden. It's moronic to argue otherwise. Make another argument, whatever-- but not that one.

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX


I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

I've not gone wrong. I'm just fine. It's the other 99% of the people that have screwed up!

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Are you talking about paying interest on that or paying it off? My CC routinely goes well above that level but I pay it off. I only use it to get the 1%/3%/5% rebates (I get paid about $500 a year to use my card FTW! ). I can only assume that I'm not part of that statistic.

However, $1,900 isn't a deal breaker. If over 50% have amounts below $1,900 and the AVERAGE is $8,000, there are some in the top 50% that have HUGE bills.

55% of people in the US don't carry a balance according to the other article I posted.

Still seems like it's other factors (housing costs, medical costs, etc) that are driving the majority of the middle class Americans into problems. Not simply keeping up with the Jones (exceptions notwithstanding)

If 55% have no balance then that really puts the $1900 in perspective. I just have an aversion to debt. In my mind its a sin to carry debt, other than for something expensive - like house, car, main furniture, etc. - for more than a couple months at most. And even in those cases I try to lock in lower rates by swinging the debt against the home rather than a credit card of any sort. You pay a heck of a lot lower rate on a second mortgage/home improvement loan than on a credit card. Plus you get to deduct.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: Engineer
Are you talking about paying interest on that or paying it off? My CC routinely goes well above that level but I pay it off. I only use it to get the 1%/3%/5% rebates (I get paid about $500 a year to use my card FTW! ). I can only assume that I'm not part of that statistic.

However, $1,900 isn't a deal breaker. If over 50% have amounts below $1,900 and the AVERAGE is $8,000, there are some in the top 50% that have HUGE bills.

55% of people in the US don't carry a balance according to the other article I posted.

Still seems like it's other factors (housing costs, medical costs, etc) that are driving the majority of the middle class Americans into problems. Not simply keeping up with the Jones (exceptions notwithstanding)

If 55% have no balance then that really puts the $1900 in perspective. I just have an aversion to debt. In my mind its a sin to carry debt, other than for something expensive - like house, car, main furniture, etc. - for more than a couple months at most. And even in those cases I try to lock in lower rates by swinging the debt against the home rather than a credit card of any sort. You pay a heck of a lot lower rate on a second mortgage/home improvement loan than on a credit card. Plus you get to deduct.

Not always true. I can deposit $12,500 from a new Citibank card into my savings account and pay ZERO interest for 15 months. Pay it back before 15 months FTW (and nice interest from savings to boot). Between cash back and zero %, you can actually do OK. However, screw up one time and you're a had lad!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
dmcowen is a notorious troll, as you all must know from reading his senseless attacks.

Our current household income is unimportant; what is important that we live in the Boston area just fine without being rich.

Acquaintances making the same money are in debt, but not us.

It's very simple: no matter how much you spend, if you are above the poverty level you can spend less. Nobody NEEDS a new car, NEEDS a nice house, NEEDS any other luxury. Avoiding things you can't afford used to be called "making ends meet", but it seems to be a forgotten idea. Americans are spoiled.

No, I didn't waste my time reading the entire article. My point was disregarded: that a 38% tax increase on a 75% earnings increase does not constitute a crushing tax burden. It's moronic to argue otherwise. Make another argument, whatever-- but not that one.

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

I attack???

You're so repugnant and smug it's disgusting. Unbecoming of a true American.

I feel sorry for your so called "acquaintances".

I notice they are only "acquaintances" and not friends.

With your attitude towards fellow Americans it's no wonder you don't have any friends.

At least the Mayor of Boston realizes the desperate situation he is facing with his constituents.

5-10-2006 City to offer plan to help stem spate of foreclosures

Alarmed by a sharp spike in Boston mortgage foreclosures, Mayor Thomas M. Menino will unveil a four-point plan today to help financially strapped homeowners keep their properties.

Menino aims to cut Boston foreclosures through a range of efforts, including increased consumer-credit classes and lobbying for better state lending laws.

But most significantly, the city has persuaded Bank of America, Citizens Bank and other lenders to create a $25 million consortium to offer financially strapped homeowners refinancing.

Experts say Boston foreclosures are rising for a number of reasons.

For openers, this winter?s high-energy prices forced some people to skip mortgage payments just to cover the heating bill.
===========================================
Let's see, freeze to death or pay mortgage.

You hate your fellow struggling Americans so much why don't you leave?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: techs

Your post has already been proved false.
Why continue?
p*wned.

[/quote]

is your aim to make as little sense as possible or is that just the result of poor comprehension and or composition skills...

I fail to see how high medical costs and their corelation to bankruptcy filings negate the article in question, if anything this data would solidify its premise and dismiss the points which are directed at people being foolhearty with their money....the article clearly states that medical expenses and lack of insurance due to high costs seriously impacts families incomes/savings in a negative manner.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

I remember when credit cards were hard to get and the rest of us did get by back then by prioritizing and not spending on any of our wants until our needs were fully paid for.

So then shouldn't credit companies share some of the blame for making their service so readily available.....if they were hard to get in the past when personal savings were at an all time high why on earth are they easy to get now?

Also why do credit companies seemingly target the college campuses and prey on those least likely to be able to repay debt??

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Wheezer


The probelm is people put thier WANTS before the NEEDS. Pay your bills first THEN if there is anything left put a littel aside until you can afford it. What good is a new TV if you have no house to put it in? Petty spending on one item is one thing, but many people let it snowball out of control and then when they get in trouble they are looking someone else to bail them out.

A perfect example of someone who responds without having read the content of the article presented...

If you had bothered to actually read the piece you would see they addressed all of your unfounded conclusions point for point and disproved exactly what you are saying.

A perfect example of someone who knows nothing or never bothers to question a politically motivated article (possible nominee to the Supreme Court?)
OVER HALF OF AMERICAN BANKRUPTCIES ARE THE RESULT OF MEDICAL BILLS.
That completely shoots down the WHOLE article and its conclusions.
I claim p*wnage.

You need to read the article.

One in every three families with an income above $35,000 reports owing medical bills they cannot pay.

The rising cost of health care has also taken a bite out of the family budget, even for healthy families. In one generation, the average out-of-pocket cost of employer-subsidized health insurance has jumped by about 90 percent. And a growing number of families are offered no employer-subsidized health insurance at all; they must either buy health insurance on the open market or forgo it altogether. In recent years, the number of middle-class families with no health insurance has grown precipitously.

Health and disability insurance. Decent health insurance is rapidly becoming a luxury that median-earning families cannot afford. Faux insurance and no insurance are leaving millions of families one diagnosis away from financial meltdown. It is time to get serious about making health insurance affordable. And health insurance alone is not enough. National short-term disability insurance?to cover illnesses and accidents?needs to be on the agenda as well.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
dmcowen is a notorious troll, as you all must know from reading his senseless attacks. Our current household income is unimportant; what is important that we live in the Boston area just fine without being rich. Acquaintances making the same money are in debt, but not us. It's very simple: no matter how much you spend, if you are above the poverty level you can spend less. Nobody NEEDS a new car, NEEDS a nice house, NEEDS any other luxury. Avoiding things you can't afford used to be called "making ends meet", but it seems to be a forgotten idea. Americans are spoiled.

No, I didn't waste my time reading the entire article. My point was disregarded: that a 38% tax increase on a 75% earnings increase does not constitute a crushing tax burden. It's moronic to argue otherwise. Make another argument, whatever-- but not that one.

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

This I find interesting and also funny as I live in a town just north of Boston, not the most affluent area but certainly not the worst, and my wife and I do what I would consider better than middle class, however to discount the findings of this article and or put it back on individuals to me seems foolhearty to say the least.

Also to cite a seriously dated book like TMND seems laughable, I would ask if you truly follow every practice in that book or just skimmed it once and refer to it as gospel...personally I thought the book was a joke and wonder if the author truly practices what he preached.

I would be curious again if you do live near boston as you say you do, do you have kids? if so did you consider where you have to live in order to get a decent public education for them or are you considering the high costs of private schools? how far is your commute? what is your town like...

We did alot of house shopping in the area and even rundown ranches in not so great neighborhoods cost upwards of 390 in many areas, 1100 sq foot townhouses in waltham were going for almost 400K, something you couldn't even have a child in without feeling cramped...

Also have you even been out of the country like ever...other nations are just as spoiled as we are the difference is they have a social structure that will assist them in areas of health and or child care whereas we do not...sure mass is making moves in the right direction but it will still cost more than a few money especially with the mandated health care bill.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
dmcowen is a notorious troll, as you all must know from reading his senseless attacks.

Our current household income is unimportant; what is important that we live in the Boston area just fine without being rich.

Acquaintances making the same money are in debt, but not us.

It's very simple: no matter how much you spend, if you are above the poverty level you can spend less. Nobody NEEDS a new car, NEEDS a nice house, NEEDS any other luxury. Avoiding things you can't afford used to be called "making ends meet", but it seems to be a forgotten idea. Americans are spoiled.

No, I didn't waste my time reading the entire article. My point was disregarded: that a 38% tax increase on a 75% earnings increase does not constitute a crushing tax burden. It's moronic to argue otherwise. Make another argument, whatever-- but not that one.

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

I attack???

You're so repugnant and smug it's disgusting. Unbecoming of a true American.

I feel sorry for your so called "acquaintances".

I notice they are only "acquaintances" and not friends.

With your attitude towards fellow Americans it's no wonder you don't have any friends.

At least the Mayor of Boston realizes the desperate situation he is facing with his constituents.

5-10-2006 City to offer plan to help stem spate of foreclosures

Alarmed by a sharp spike in Boston mortgage foreclosures, Mayor Thomas M. Menino will unveil a four-point plan today to help financially strapped homeowners keep their properties.

Menino aims to cut Boston foreclosures through a range of efforts, including increased consumer-credit classes and lobbying for better state lending laws.

But most significantly, the city has persuaded Bank of America, Citizens Bank and other lenders to create a $25 million consortium to offer financially strapped homeowners refinancing.

Experts say Boston foreclosures are rising for a number of reasons.

For openers, this winter?s high-energy prices forced some people to skip mortgage payments just to cover the heating bill.
===========================================
Let's see, freeze to death or pay mortgage.

You hate your fellow struggling Americans so much why don't you leave?

Your usual load of tripe. I don't know which is stupider, the unfounded ad hominem attacks or the lack of attention to detail. The fact that some Boston homeowners live so close to the edge that they are in danger of foreclosure due to a heating bill underscores exactly what I've been saying.

If you hate your fellow Americans as much as you obviously do, why don't you leave the country?

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: bozack
This I find interesting and also funny as I live in a town just north of Boston, not the most affluent area but certainly not the worst, and my wife and I do what I would consider better than middle class, however to discount the findings of this article and or put it back on individuals to me seems foolhearty to say the least.

It's not foolhardy, as I'm not risking anything. I'm just stating what I and plenty of others see; most people do not live within their means. We live in Malden, also not the best area and not the worst.

Originally posted by: bozack
Also to cite a seriously dated book like TMND seems laughable, I would ask if you truly follow every practice in that book or just skimmed it once and refer to it as gospel...personally I thought the book was a joke and wonder if the author truly practices what he preached.

The book is only nine years old-- I looked it up. That's not seriously dated. It has received rave reviews from many economists. Of course, that means nothing on an anonymous Internet discussion board. According to a previous poster, I should have a Harvard degree to even consider posting here.

Originally posted by: bozack
I would be curious again if you do live near boston as you say you do, do you have kids? if so did you consider where you have to live in order to get a decent public education for them or are you considering the high costs of private schools? how far is your commute? what is your town like...

My town is decent. It's not important. I have one child, 10 months old. We haven't thought much about school yet, as that's a few years off. We may home-school, or put him in a decent private school, or send him to public school.

Originally posted by: bozack
We did alot of house shopping in the area and even rundown ranches in not so great neighborhoods cost upwards of 390 in many areas, 1100 sq foot townhouses in waltham were going for almost 400K, something you couldn't even have a child in without feeling cramped...

That's why people should live within their means. If they are in one of the areas where a rundown ranch costs more than they can afford, they should live somewhere else, buy a cheaper condo, rent, whatever. I've made decisions like this, and wound up without crushing debt and with a pretty good life.

Quoting sky-high prices in one area doesn't mean people can't find somewhere cheaper to live.

Originally posted by: bozack
Also have you even been out of the country like ever...other nations are just as spoiled as we are the difference is they have a social structure that will assist them in areas of health and or child care whereas we do not...sure mass is making moves in the right direction but it will still cost more than a few money especially with the mandated health care bill.

I agree with you; our society is very poor in the way it approaches the welfare of its citizens. My only point is that a great many people live above their means, which is one reason that they cannot accrue wealth.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Wheezer


The probelm is people put thier WANTS before the NEEDS. Pay your bills first THEN if there is anything left put a littel aside until you can afford it. What good is a new TV if you have no house to put it in? Petty spending on one item is one thing, but many people let it snowball out of control and then when they get in trouble they are looking someone else to bail them out.

A perfect example of someone who responds without having read the content of the article presented...

If you had bothered to actually read the piece you would see they addressed all of your unfounded conclusions point for point and disproved exactly what you are saying.

Sorry no.

The article proves EXACTLY what I am saying.

Credit. Each year millions of families are trapped by credit-card issuers and mortgage lenders that market deceptive products and use unscrupulous billing practices. America needs to develop product-safety standards for credit cards and mortgages, just as we have for all other consumer products. No one can sell a toaster in the United States that has a one in 11 chance of burning down someone?s home; likewise, a mortgage that has a one in 11 chance of putting someone in foreclosure should be banned. Credit products should be clear, honest, and not loaded with tricks and traps.

if you are not over spending then why the need for so much credit?

Schools. A failing public-school system affects more than the poor children who are trapped in it. It also puts enormous pressure on middle-class families to buy property in the right school districts, thus pushing up housing prices. Improving the quality of public education would diminish the financial pressure on middle-class families.

So now it's the poor kids who are driving up the cost for the middle class. Because of all the poor kids who ruin a school district the middle class are forced to move. So see the middle class is getting screwed on both ends.

Savings. Creditors have spent billions of dollars to advertise the attractiveness of debt. *America needs a few rules that promote family savings: checkoffs so that tax refunds can go straight into retirement accounts, easier payroll deductions, and tax incentives for all savings. It would also help if the chairman of the Federal Reserve promoted saving rather than pumping up home-equity borrowing, putting the interests of families?not the profits of banks?first.

1-Which furthers my point that you so intelligently tried to disprove. Creating a savings acount even if it drew 0% interest is putting your NEEDS before your WANTS. Everyone should have a a LITTLE money set aside for emergencies.

2-*That statement is basically saying, that Amercans have proved they cannot be fiscally responsible for themselves and the goverment needs to step in and help them save. WTF?? many of you have pointed out the fiscal irresponsibility of the goverment to save money and yet you agree with this article that says the goverment should do your saving for you?

Retirement. People must not be abandoned when they can no longer work. When a company promises an employee a pension, the government has a responsibility to make sure the company is setting enough aside to meet this obligation. Social security must remain secure, but programs to encourage saving and to buttress employer-sponsored pensions are also necessary to ensure the long-term security of the middle class.

Pensions virtually do not exist in this day and age. But no matter what programs are put into place for employees by thier employer it is only beneficial of the employee contributes.

I have seen first hand many of my former co-workers, family members and friends get themselves in WAY over thier heads in debt over new toys. Cars, TV's, computers and gaming systems just to name a few. People treat thier employers like a bank. Every week or two they make a withdraw (thier paycheck) and then go out pay a few bills then spend it foolishly but that is ok because in another week or two they can make another withdraw.

Even if you *think* have steady employment you should plan as if one day it won't be there.

I did, and since I lost my job of 17 years because of a takeover that I thought would never happen, I can go the next 2-3 years until my school is done without the pressure to find a job. I invested in my 401k, never lived beyond my means, made that extra house payment every year but was still able to get the things I wanted, and save money for a rainy day.

Do I drive a super new car? no
Have a new plasma TV? no
Have the latest in stereo equipment? no
Go out to eat often? no
Go to the movies? no
Live in an expensive home? nope



Is everyone me? Nope.
Could they be? Maybe not, but they could at the very least learn to live a lifestyle without the threat of losing thier house or getting thier utilities turned off.

That article has one major theme through it, people cannot be responsible for thier own money, it is the fault of the goverment, the banks , the credit card companies, the school system (yes even the poor) as to why people are losing thier homes, thier cars and thier kids can't go to college. It's always someone elses fault for fiscal irresponsibility.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Yup... Does this mean that the real estate "bubble" is finally going to burst? With all these foreclosures do you think there is "enough" rich people to keep snapping up houses? Can we let the last remaining best investment slide down into the crapper?

I think if bush had a few braincells left he would lower the interest rates since........ That WAS keeping the market afloat for some time. I just sold a few lots I had for investments. I feel that the high prices of real estate is coming to an end. I think if the market does collapse it won't be just middle class but a bunch of rich calls will be getting burned with this one. Next Year will be really interesting!

Bush doesn't control interest rates. The fed controls short term rates, but traditional mortgages are tied to long term rates, which are determined by financial markets, not any one entity.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: techs

Your post has already been proved false.
Why continue?
p*wned.

is your aim to make as little sense as possible or is that just the result of poor comprehension and or composition skills...

I fail to see how high medical costs and their corelation to bankruptcy filings negate the article in question, if anything this data would solidify its premise and dismiss the points which are directed at people being foolhearty with their money....the article clearly states that medical expenses and lack of insurance due to high costs seriously impacts families incomes/savings in a negative manner.[/quote]
The article is basically about how Americans live above their means and therefore they use bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Since more than half the bankruptcy filings are as the result of unexpected medical cost the basic premise is flawed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
dmcowen is a notorious troll, as you all must know from reading his senseless attacks.

Our current household income is unimportant; what is important that we live in the Boston area just fine without being rich.

Acquaintances making the same money are in debt, but not us.

It's very simple: no matter how much you spend, if you are above the poverty level you can spend less. Nobody NEEDS a new car, NEEDS a nice house, NEEDS any other luxury. Avoiding things you can't afford used to be called "making ends meet", but it seems to be a forgotten idea. Americans are spoiled.

No, I didn't waste my time reading the entire article. My point was disregarded: that a 38% tax increase on a 75% earnings increase does not constitute a crushing tax burden. It's moronic to argue otherwise. Make another argument, whatever-- but not that one.

I recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" for anyone feeling bearish about their long-term financial prospects. It will show you where you've gone wrong.

I attack???

You're so repugnant and smug it's disgusting. Unbecoming of a true American.

I feel sorry for your so called "acquaintances".

I notice they are only "acquaintances" and not friends.

With your attitude towards fellow Americans it's no wonder you don't have any friends.

At least the Mayor of Boston realizes the desperate situation he is facing with his constituents.

5-10-2006 City to offer plan to help stem spate of foreclosures

Alarmed by a sharp spike in Boston mortgage foreclosures, Mayor Thomas M. Menino will unveil a four-point plan today to help financially strapped homeowners keep their properties.

Menino aims to cut Boston foreclosures through a range of efforts, including increased consumer-credit classes and lobbying for better state lending laws.

But most significantly, the city has persuaded Bank of America, Citizens Bank and other lenders to create a $25 million consortium to offer financially strapped homeowners refinancing.

Experts say Boston foreclosures are rising for a number of reasons.

For openers, this winter?s high-energy prices forced some people to skip mortgage payments just to cover the heating bill.
===========================================
Let's see, freeze to death or pay mortgage.

You hate your fellow struggling Americans so much why don't you leave?

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: bozack
This I find interesting and also funny as I live in a town just north of Boston, not the most affluent area but certainly not the worst, and my wife and I do what I would consider better than middle class, however to discount the findings of this article and or put it back on individuals to me seems foolhearty to say the least.

It's not foolhardy, as I'm not risking anything. I'm just stating what I and plenty of others see; most people do not live within their means. We live in Malden, also not the best area and not the worst.

Originally posted by: bozack
Also to cite a seriously dated book like TMND seems laughable, I would ask if you truly follow every practice in that book or just skimmed it once and refer to it as gospel...personally I thought the book was a joke and wonder if the author truly practices what he preached.

The book is only nine years old-- I looked it up. That's not seriously dated. It has received rave reviews from many economists. Of course, that means nothing on an anonymous Internet discussion board. According to a previous poster, I should have a Harvard degree to even consider posting here.

Originally posted by: bozack
I would be curious again if you do live near boston as you say you do, do you have kids? if so did you consider where you have to live in order to get a decent public education for them or are you considering the high costs of private schools? how far is your commute? what is your town like...

My town is decent. It's not important. I have one child, 10 months old. We haven't thought much about school yet, as that's a few years off. We may home-school, or put him in a decent private school, or send him to public school.

Originally posted by: bozack
We did alot of house shopping in the area and even rundown ranches in not so great neighborhoods cost upwards of 390 in many areas, 1100 sq foot townhouses in waltham were going for almost 400K, something you couldn't even have a child in without feeling cramped...

That's why people should live within their means. If they are in one of the areas where a rundown ranch costs more than they can afford, they should live somewhere else, buy a cheaper condo, rent, whatever. I've made decisions like this, and wound up without crushing debt and with a pretty good life.

Quoting sky-high prices in one area doesn't mean people can't find somewhere cheaper to live.

Originally posted by: bozack
Also have you even been out of the country like ever...other nations are just as spoiled as we are the difference is they have a social structure that will assist them in areas of health and or child care whereas we do not...sure mass is making moves in the right direction but it will still cost more than a few money especially with the mandated health care bill.

I agree with you; our society is very poor in the way it approaches the welfare of its citizens. My only point is that a great many people live above their means, which is one reason that they cannot accrue wealth.

Your usual load of tripe. I don't know which is stupider, the unfounded ad hominem attacks or the lack of attention to detail. The fact that some Boston homeowners live so close to the edge that they are in danger of foreclosure due to a heating bill underscores exactly what I've been saying.

If you hate your fellow Americans as much as you obviously do, why don't you leave the country?

Attention Bostonians, the rich folks around you say live on the street and die.

They are proud rich American haters.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Attention Bostonians, the rich folks around you say live on the street and die.

They are proud rich American haters.

It's amazing you're not locked away in the booby hatch.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

That article has one major theme through it, people cannot be responsible for thier own money, it is the fault of the goverment, the banks ,he credit card companies, the school system as to why people are losing thier homes, thier cars and thier kids can't go to college. It's always someone elses fault for fiscal irresponsibility.

We're talking about the middle-class here. Yeah, i'm sure with their middle-class income, that if they lived like the lower class, that they wouldn't have as many financial problems. That they could live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools, that they don't bother sending their kids to preschool or college, that they don't bother getting medical help unless it was life-threatening... yeah, if only middle-class people didn't see those things as important, they would be so much happier financially.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: techs

Your post has already been proved false.
Why continue?
p*wned.

is your aim to make as little sense as possible or is that just the result of poor comprehension and or composition skills...

I fail to see how high medical costs and their corelation to bankruptcy filings negate the article in question, if anything this data would solidify its premise and dismiss the points which are directed at people being foolhearty with their money....the article clearly states that medical expenses and lack of insurance due to high costs seriously impacts families incomes/savings in a negative manner.

The article is basically about how Americans live above their means and therefore they use bankruptcy as a get out of debt free card.
Since more than half the bankruptcy filings are as the result of unexpected medical cost the basic premise is flawed.


[/quote]

So you're so sure that half of all the bankruptcy filings are due to ONLY unexpected medical cost?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Wheezer

That article has one major theme through it, people cannot be responsible for thier own money, it is the fault of the goverment, the banks ,he credit card companies, the school system as to why people are losing thier homes, thier cars and thier kids can't go to college. It's always someone elses fault for fiscal irresponsibility.

We're talking about the middle-class here. Yeah, i'm sure with their middle-class income, that if they lived like the lower class, that they wouldn't have as many financial problems. That they could live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools, that they don't bother sending their kids to preschool or college, that they don't bother getting medical help unless it was life-threatening... yeah, if only middle-class people didn't see those things as important, they would be so much happier financially.

who said anything about the middle class living like the poor? Living within your means does not mean living like the poor...does it?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Wheezer

That article has one major theme through it, people cannot be responsible for thier own money, it is the fault of the goverment, the banks ,he credit card companies, the school system as to why people are losing thier homes, thier cars and thier kids can't go to college. It's always someone elses fault for fiscal irresponsibility.

We're talking about the middle-class here. Yeah, i'm sure with their middle-class income, that if they lived like the lower class, that they wouldn't have as many financial problems. That they could live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools, that they don't bother sending their kids to preschool or college, that they don't bother getting medical help unless it was life-threatening... yeah, if only middle-class people didn't see those things as important, they would be so much happier financially.

who said anything about the middle class living like the poor? Living within your means does not mean living like the poor...does it?

What is living within your means? CC and toys does play a part in this... the article itself even admitted it, but overconsumption is not the sole reason or even largest factor. I'm not going to repeat everything here, because the article does make a good point if you actually read it. It all adds up. If you think overconsumption is the only reason why this is the cause of the problem, then you're not going to see the solutions that are needed. You can sit back and gloat how well you've done for yourself, and just say that people are just screwing themselves. You're going to have more bankruptcies, more people going into actual poverty, and all the problems that come from poverty.

It may be nice to sit infront of the TV and see how all the rich and powerful are living, but this society is largely built on the middle-class. The middle-class is what makes America, America.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Wheezer

That article has one major theme through it, people cannot be responsible for thier own money, it is the fault of the goverment, the banks ,he credit card companies, the school system as to why people are losing thier homes, thier cars and thier kids can't go to college. It's always someone elses fault for fiscal irresponsibility.

We're talking about the middle-class here. Yeah, i'm sure with their middle-class income, that if they lived like the lower class, that they wouldn't have as many financial problems. That they could live in poor neighborhoods with bad schools, that they don't bother sending their kids to preschool or college, that they don't bother getting medical help unless it was life-threatening... yeah, if only middle-class people didn't see those things as important, they would be so much happier financially.

who said anything about the middle class living like the poor? Living within your means does not mean living like the poor...does it?

It does now, just ask sux up above.