whats going on in London???

[11thHour]

Officially Code Orange in the US now, for mass transit concerns...atleast until bush popularity poll numbers increase.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: BBond
Here's something a bit more recent, Chicken.

Thanks George for helping al Qaeda on their training mission by attacking the wrong godam country.

You moron.

Terrorists hone skills in Iraq, experts say

PS No credible link between Saddam and terrorists. 9/11 Commission Report.

Keep repeating your ignorance over and over and over, BBond. It's quite a display of fruit loop liberalism.

And you continue to display your delusional conservatism.

Faith based, right?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
Oh for the love of...

Originally posted by: Doboji
DO I really?... You know damn well at the very least Saddam was sending money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel

He offered money to the surviving members of a family who's husband/father killed himself as a suicide bomber. Where's the proof any money was actually sent?

Are you serious or are you just playing the blindered 'where's the proof' game again?

-----

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html?oneclick=true

Saddam stokes war with suicide bomber cash
March 26 2002

The Iraqi leader's payments to the families of dead Palestinian terrorists means more trouble for Yasser Arafat, writes Paul McGeough in the West Bank.

The hall was packed and the intake of breath was audible as a special announcement was made to the war widows of the West Bank - Saddam Hussein would pay $US25,000 ($47,000) to the family of each suicide bomber as an enticement for others to volunteer for martyrdom in the name of the Palestinian people.

The men at the top table then opened Saddam's chequebook and, as the names of 47 martyrs were called, family representatives went up to sign for cheques written in US dollars.

Those of two suicide bombers were the first to be paid the new rate of $US25,000 and those whose relatives had died in other clashes with the Israeli military were given $US10,000 each.

The $US500,000 doled out in this impoverished community yesterday means that the besieged Iraqi leader now has contributed more than $US10 million to grieving Palestinian families since the new intifada began 18 months ago.

But the timing of this clear signal that Saddam is stoking the Middle East conflict with his new $US15,000 bonus to encourage more suicide bombers - and exclusive pictures from the distribution ceremony, which was attended by the Herald - could make it more difficult for the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, to manage his already strained relationship with the United States.

...

Ah, so Saddam was directly involved funding suicide bombers. Yeah, right. Did you even read that? He was paying survivors as their source of income was now gone. He wasn't providing money to would-be bombers nor providing arms.

You specifically asked:

Where's the proof any money was actually sent?

Now you're switching gears when the proof is provided?

Also, you seem to neglect that, as the article noted, Saddam was offering the money as a form of enticement for the bombbers, not merely recompense for the families. The money was used as a carrot to recruit new bombers. But keep up the pretense that it wasn't and keep making your ridicuously apologetic comments about those funds.

there are plenty of other terrorists who have found shelter in Iraq under the Hussein regime

Ok, name ONE!

Omar Abdel Rahman

Hunh? Oh, you mean the guy who was issued a US visa by the CIA for his help in Afghanistan?[/quote]
Well, well. Look at conjur deflecting...AGAIN. Your question was answered. One was named.

BTW, he was arrested and sentenced to life in prison in 1996. How could he be a justification for invading Iraq in 2003?

Who claimed HE was justitification? There are people in here claiming that Saddam didn't support terrorism because there were NO terrorists in Iraq prior to the war. That's pure BS. It's been shown and now you're trying to change the subject to avoid acknowledging that fact. How typical of you.

... was he directly connected to Al Queda or Osama Bin Laden? NO... was he connected to other terrorist organizations, and did he provide support for terrorists... yes he did.

Where's the beef?

You can probably consider the foot in your mouth as such.

My feet are firmly planted on the ground.

You must get a lot of dirt in your teeth in that position.

 

[conjur]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07532815.htm

WASHINGTON, July 7 (Reuters) - The United States is raising the terrorist threat level for rail and mass transit systems, but not for airlines, after the bomb blasts that rocked London, a U.S. government official said on Thursday.

The official said the alert level for trains and subways would be raised to orange, which signifies a high risk of terrorist attack, from yellow, the mid-point on the five-point color-coded system.

Michael Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security, plans to hold a news conference at 11:45 a.m. EDT to discuss the bombings in London and give an update about domestic protective measures.

The terrorism alert level was last raised in August last year to orange for the financial services sector in New York City, northern New Jersey and Washington D.C., based on intelligence that al Qaeda was targeting specific buildings. It was lowered back to yellow on Nov. 10, 2004.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: 11thHour
Officially Code Orange in the US now, for mass transit concerns...atleast until bush popularity poll numbers increase.

:laugh:

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: rchiu
Yeah, what impact we have with this war in Iraq? Did we eliminated Al Qaeda with this war, or did we catch Bin Ladin with this war? Did we stop Al Qaeda's ability to carry out large scale coordinated attacks?

If anything, this war in Iraq wasted our resources, shifted our focus, and make more enemy for us in the ME.

Almost 4 years after 911, we still haven't eliminated Al Qaeda, still haven't capture Bin Ladin, and now they just carried out another large scale coordinated attack in the biggest city of our closest ally. What exactly has Bush achieved after one of the worst attack on America? Japen surrendered less then 4 years after Pearl Harbor, how many years are we going to wait before Bush has something, anything to show for his effort?

We nuked Japan to get them to finally capitulate. Are you suggesting we should do the same to the ME?

ME didn't attack us, Al Qaeda did. Find a way to eliminate Al Qaeda, nuke them or whatever, I don't care. If you can prove Bin Ladin is in Pakistan, and Pakistan still can't do jack about it, I don't care if Bush use a tactical nuke to nuke the place. Just don't go fvck around with someone else that has nothing to do with the whole thing.

Bush's war on Terror is BS, they are not taking on the real enemy. This should have been a precise strike on the terrorist group, not an entire nation or region. The message should be clear, we are fighiting the terrorist group, and not the entire Muslim religion.

This BS war lead to BS result, and people in London have to suffer because of Bush's incompetence.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Now you're switching gears when the proof is provided?

It doesn't prove support of terrorism.

Also, you seem to neglect that, as the article noted, Saddam was offering the money as a form of enticement for the bombbers, not merely recompense for the families. The money was used as a carrot to recruit new bombers. But keep up the pretense that it wasn't and keep making your ridicuously apologetic comments about those funds.

Enticement? That's a subjective conclusion reached by the author.

Hunh? Oh, you mean the guy who was issued a US visa by the CIA for his help in Afghanistan?

Well, well. Look at conjur deflecting...AGAIN. Your question was answered. One was named.

When was he in Iraq? He was in Sudan, Afghanistan, involved in the 1993 WTC bombing. When was he in Iraq and being harbored directly with Saddam's knowledge?

You haven't answered the question.

BTW, he was arrested and sentenced to life in prison in 1996. How could he be a justification for invading Iraq in 2003?

Who claimed HE was justitification? There are people in here claiming that Saddam didn't support terrorism because there were NO terrorists in Iraq prior to the war. That's pure BS. It's been shown and now you're trying to change the subject to avoid acknowledging that fact. How typical of you.

*You* did. Geez! You said he was a terrorist harbored in Iraq by Saddam. You have shown no proof of that.

 

[moshquerade]

wow, go figure, i click on this link and see conjur is in an argument with someone.

how about sticking with the topic at hand? concern for the people in London who have just went through a terrorist attack.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
wow, go figure, i click on this link and see conjur is in an argument with someone.

how about sticking with the topic at hand? concern for the people in London who have just went through a terrorist attack.

Maybe you can focus on Politics and News instead of Conjur? This isn't PN&C.

 

[morkinva]

WASHINGTON, July 7 (Reuters) - The United States is raising the terrorist threat level for rail and mass transit systems, but not for airlines, after the bomb blasts that rocked London, a U.S. government official said on Thursday.

Great, now we'll easily pass something like a national ID card. Thanks to more government sponsored terrorism. Please save us from the 'terrorists'! :disgust:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Tango
And by the way: there ARE mass graves in Kosovo. Take a flight an go see them if you don't believe the thousands of images you can see on the internet.

Yeah, right.

No "mass graves" have ever been verified in Kosovo. None. Those graves that have been found have been determined to have been victims of the war itself and not any sort of ethnic cleansing of 100,000, as was claimed.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: morkinva

WASHINGTON, July 7 (Reuters) - The United States is raising the terrorist threat level for rail and mass transit systems, but not for airlines, after the bomb blasts that rocked London, a U.S. government official said on Thursday.

Great, now we'll easily pass something like a national ID card. Thanks to more government sponsored terrorism. Please save us from the 'terrorists'! :disgust:

We already have passed a national ID card. Sensenbrenner stuffed it into the latest $80 billion appropriation bill.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
wow, go figure, i click on this link and see conjur is in an argument with someone.

how about sticking with the topic at hand? concern for the people in London who have just went through a terrorist attack.

How about reading my posts before making yourself look like an idiot?

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tango
And by the way: there ARE mass graves in Kosovo. Take a flight an go see them if you don't believe the thousands of images you can see on the internet.

Yeah, right.

No "mass graves" have ever been verified in Kosovo. None. Those graves that have been found have been determined to have been victims of the war itself and not any sort of ethnic cleansing of 100,000, as was claimed.

Are you crazy? Let's start deny what happened for 10 years in Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia and eventually Kosovo...

United Nation agency:
"To date, the U.N. has probed 195 mass-grave sites where 4,266 bodies had been reported buried. The investigators dug out 2,108 full corpses, half the number they expected to find. That's about 10 per grave. Partial corpses, and there were many, weren't counted. In all, the Kosovars have reported a total of 11,334 deaths. There are 324 sites left to investigate, and more are being discovered daily. If the U.N. teams continue to locate bodies at roughly the rate they have been, they'll have identified 6,000 or so when their work is done, not counting incomplete bodies."

http://beqiraj.com/kosova/de/war_crimes/index.asp
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/bcr3/bcr3_200506_558_3_eng.txt
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/SKAR-64GDRM?OpenDocument
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/17/kosovo.03/
http://www.kosovo.com/massgraves.html

I was in Serbia two months ago.. just drive north to Bosnia or south to Kosovo and you will find your evidencies by yourself. There are nice pictures in the last edition of SIPA news, a publication of Columbia University...

it's scary how fast people change their minds following the opinion of a couple of journalists even against proven evidencies...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: rchiu
Yeah, what impact we have with this war in Iraq? Did we eliminated Al Qaeda with this war, or did we catch Bin Ladin with this war? Did we stop Al Qaeda's ability to carry out large scale coordinated attacks?

If anything, this war in Iraq wasted our resources, shifted our focus, and make more enemy for us in the ME.

Almost 4 years after 911, we still haven't eliminated Al Qaeda, still haven't capture Bin Ladin, and now they just carried out another large scale coordinated attack in the biggest city of our closest ally. What exactly has Bush achieved after one of the worst attack on America? Japen surrendered less then 4 years after Pearl Harbor, how many years are we going to wait before Bush has something, anything to show for his effort?

We nuked Japan to get them to finally capitulate. Are you suggesting we should do the same to the ME?

ME didn't attack us, Al Qaeda did. Find a way to eliminate Al Qaeda, nuke them or whatever, I don't care. If you can prove Bin Ladin is in Pakistan, and Pakistan still can't do jack about it, I don't care if Bush use a tactical nuke to nuke the place. Just don't go fvck around with someone else that has nothing to do with the whole thing.

Bush's war on Terror is BS, they are not taking on the real enemy. This should have been a precise strike on the terrorist group, not an entire nation or region. The message should be clear, we are fighiting the terrorist group, and not the entire Muslim religion.

This BS war lead to BS result, and people in London have to suffer because of Bush's incompetence.

That'd be real smart. Go drop nukes on a country that has nukes themselves.

The real enemy here are regimes that foment and foster the militant Islamic terrorists in the first place. Saddam's regime was one of those regimes. So was the Taliban. Two down, more to go.

And you draw a conclusion about incompetence. I also assume you fault Clinton for his incompetence that caused the people of New York to suffer?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tango
And by the way: there ARE mass graves in Kosovo. Take a flight an go see them if you don't believe the thousands of images you can see on the internet.

Yeah, right.

No "mass graves" have ever been verified in Kosovo. None. Those graves that have been found have been determined to have been victims of the war itself and not any sort of ethnic cleansing of 100,000, as was claimed.

Are you crazy? Let's start deny what happened for 10 years in Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia and eventually Kosovo...

United Nation agency:
"To date, the U.N. has probed 195 mass-grave sites where 4,266 bodies had been reported buried. The investigators dug out 2,108 full corpses, half the number they expected to find. That's about 10 per grave. Partial corpses, and there were many, weren't counted. In all, the Kosovars have reported a total of 11,334 deaths. There are 324 sites left to investigate, and more are being discovered daily. If the U.N. teams continue to locate bodies at roughly the rate they have been, they'll have identified 6,000 or so when their work is done, not counting incomplete bodies."

http://beqiraj.com/kosova/de/war_crimes/index.asp
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/bcr3/bcr3_200506_558_3_eng.txt
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/SKAR-64GDRM?OpenDocument
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/17/kosovo.03/
http://www.kosovo.com/massgraves.html

I was in Serbia two months ago.. just drive north to Bosnia or south to Kosovo and you will find your evidencies by yourself. There are nice pictures in the last edition of SIPA news, a publication of Columbia University...

it's scary how fast people change their minds following the opinion of a couple of journalists even against proven evidencies...

Has the UN come up with any proof those "mass graves" (Which under the UN definition is any grave with more than two people) are a results of ethnic cleansing, as Clinton claimed? How many of the "mass graves" uncovered so far were victims of the war itself?

Simply finding graves with a bunch of people in them does not substantiate the claims that were made, and nowhere near the amount that were supposed to be there have been located.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Edit: As you can see, the liberal Conjur chooses to see the glass half-empty while I choose to see it half-full. So far, I would say this event today is NO 9/11.

Tell that to the families of the dead in London.

:|

Right. As if there is never supposed to be another attack, anywhere. No matter how many events have been thwarted, when one gets through you put out your fake little red faces and slobber about Bush.

Words cannot describe....

 

[getbush]

Well they have found a lot more mass graves than dubya em dees.

Hey everybody keep voting republican and this won't happen here! [/sarcasm]

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Edit: As you can see, the liberal Conjur chooses to see the glass half-empty while I choose to see it half-full. So far, I would say this event today is NO 9/11.

Tell that to the families of the dead in London.

:|

Right. As if there is never supposed to be another attack, anywhere. No matter how many events have been thwarted, when one gets through you put out your fake little red faces and slobber about Bush.

Words cannot describe....

Seriously, go troll elsewhere.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: matstars

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: matstars


Wow conjur...

So we should just leave the middle east to be a breeding ground for hatred and harboring western terrorists.

wow... just wow...

No, we should make up lies to justify illegal unprovoked aggression that create a breeding ground for hatred.

WHAT!!??

Have you missed these Iraqi's who have BEHEADED American's, and other westerners on their TELEVISION STATIONS ???? THIS is NOT A BREEDING GROUND?

I don't even know what to say.

That wasn't happening before we invaded Iraq, genius. :roll:

You're right Daniel Pearl was beheaded after he was already dead.... so it doesnt count.

Funny, I could have sworn that Pearl wasn't killed in Iraq, but in Pakistan.

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: conjur
Oh for the love of...

Originally posted by: Doboji
DO I really?... You know damn well at the very least Saddam was sending money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel

He offered money to the surviving members of a family who's husband/father killed himself as a suicide bomber. Where's the proof any money was actually sent?

there are plenty of other terrorists who have found shelter in Iraq under the Hussein regime

Ok, name ONE!

... was he directly connected to Al Queda or Osama Bin Laden? NO... was he connected to other terrorist organizations, and did he provide support for terrorists... yes he did.

Where's the beef?

Let's begin with two then:

Al Qaeda No.2 Ayman Zawahiri was provided shelter in the early 90s.

1993 WTC bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin spent practically a decade in Iraq under Saddam's protection.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: irwincur

A few decades ago???

I was referring to the purposeful meetings at the Vatican to discuss and come to grips with the modernists and traditionalists in the Church, and to come to compromise. Their intentions were to advance the Church into the modern world while still maintaining a clear vision of what the Chruch stood for.

Islam could really use something like this. It would help to alleviate some of the internal issues that are causing problems. Like the ability for any Imam, andywhere in the world to start any Jihad that he sees fit. There is no central control.

And there is no NEED for a central control. Remember, unlike something like Catholicism, there is no formal clergy. You see that as a problem, I see that as better. If you want to advocate a central authorirty, you go ahead. But that is a basic tenent of the religion: you don't need anyone between you and god.

As for the Quran ADVOCATING the kiling of "indfidels", maybe you read it, but you didn't use yoiur analytical skills at all. A lot of those advocation of killings were for a specific instance in the history of the prophet where he was threatened by others. I know there is a lot of this stuff in the Bible as well, yet you don't see people running around saying that stuff.


IF it was Muslims responsible for this (I don't know yet, and haven't heard anything beyond speculation) then I feel ever more dissapointed on top of the sorrow for victims because my religion is going to be continued to be blamed as "evil" by others. And if that doesn't occur, then some people will demand that a "sect" of the religion be stamped out and destroyed by them.
I agree some are more extreme the the others and to a degree that is VERY bad, but why don't we advocate the same death and murder to other extremeists of other religions? Look at the Hindu radicals, they beleive that all Muslims are former Hindus that must be reconverted lest they face death. And its a tit-for-tat that has been going on in that region for almost 100 years now! Yet we don't run around talking about the issues that pertain there
Ultimately those who say Islam is an "evil" or "intolerant" or "bla bla bla" religion are the same people who say that those who commit evil acts in the name of Christianity are not Christians, and that the religion itself is peaceful when followers may try to mess it up.

Ultimaately we should rail against the idiots that did this, whoever they are. But to connect those who commited the actions to others and claim guilt by association is stupid.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: moshquerade
wow, go figure, i click on this link and see conjur is in an argument with someone.

how about sticking with the topic at hand? concern for the people in London who have just went through a terrorist attack.

Maybe you can focus on Politics and News instead of Conjur? This isn't PN&C.

it's not my fault he shows up in every thread.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ShinGouki
I just hope this whole incident doesn't further alienate the large muslim community in London and across the rest of the UK. They have had to put up with enough flak since 9/11 due to ignorant people overe here who don't bother to take the time to get to know these people. Whatever your thoughts on the Koran, I have many muslim friends; plenty of whom would be considered devout and they are some of the most intelligent pacificistic people I know. I'm aware of the Quaran containing many refrences that can be interpreted in many ways by people looking to place blame. However like any religion it is open to intepretation and you'd be hard pressed to convince any of my muslim friends that killing innocents could ever be excused by the Quaran. [ ... ]

I watched a live press conference on BBC an hour or two ago. It had representatives of the various British agencies involved: Scotland Yard, emergency services, the underground, the bus service, etc. In the Q&A afterwards, one reporter asked the Scotland Yard rep whether they were conducting the investigation assuming it was "Islamic terrorism". I don't remember his exact words, but he said something roughly to the effect that he didn't believe in Islamic terrorism, that Muslims were fine, peaceful people, but that there were terrorists who claimed Islamic beliefs. In short, he very properly emphasized that terrorists are terrorists regardless of their professed religion, and that these bombings should not be considered connected to Islam or Muslims. I thought he did a great job answering the question; my paraphrase doesn't do it justice. It is a message more of the Islam-bashers need to hear and understand.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Edit: As you can see, the liberal Conjur chooses to see the glass half-empty while I choose to see it half-full. So far, I would say this event today is NO 9/11.

Tell that to the families of the dead in London.

:|

Right. As if there is never supposed to be another attack, anywhere. No matter how many events have been thwarted, when one gets through you put out your fake little red faces and slobber about Bush.

Words cannot describe....

Seriously, go troll elsewhere.

truth is not trolling. are you disputing what he has said?