whats going on in London???

[BBond]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

You're still ignoring THE FACT that there were no terrorists in Iraq. No WMD.

So how can the people of Iraq be forced "to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots" when they weren't their fringe idiots?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Tango



Because the Saudis have very deep links in the american politics, control A LOT of the world oil markets and beeing an absolute monarchy are a somewhat stable commercial partner. Plus Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, so it is virtually inattackable without causing a global religion war...

Then why Iraq?

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

You're kidding, right?

:laugh:

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

and for that matter has the US suffered for its fringe idiots who have been responsible for an irresponsible foreign policy for the last 40-50 years?

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Commish

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: matstars


Wow conjur...

So we should just leave the middle east to be a breeding ground for hatred and harboring western terrorists.

wow... just wow...

No, we should make up lies to justify illegal unprovoked aggression that create a breeding ground for hatred.

That breeding ground existed long before the unprovoked war.

Not in Iraq it didn't.

Is that right? According to Andrew McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor who in 1995 successfully led the prosecution against the organization of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, which was responsible for the 1993 WTC bombings (you know, the terrorist attack that occurred long before George Bush entered office):

~Ahmed Hikmat Shakir ? the Iraqi Intelligence operative who facilitated a 9/11 hijacker into Malaysia and was in attendance at the Kuala Lampur meeting with two of the hijackers, and other conspirators, at what is roundly acknowledged to be the initial 9/11 planning session in January 2000? Who was arrested after the 9/11 attacks in possession of contact information for several known terrorists? Who managed to make his way out of Jordanian custody over our objections after the 9/11 attacks because of special pleading by Saddam?s regime?

~Saddam's intelligence agency's efforts to recruit jihadists to bomb Radio Free Europe in Prague in the late 1990's?

~Mohammed Atta's unexplained visits to Prague in 2000, and his alleged visit there in April 2001 which ? notwithstanding the 9/11 Commission's dismissal of it (based on interviewing exactly zero relevant witnesses) ? the Czechs have not retracted?

~The Clinton Justice Department's allegation in a 1998 indictment (two months before the embassy bombings) against bin Laden, to wit: In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.

~Seized Iraq Intelligence Service records indicating that Saddam's henchmen regarded bin Laden as an asset as early as 1992?

~Saddam's hosting of al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri beginning in the early 1990?s, and reports of a large payment of money to Zawahiri in 1998?

~Saddam?s ten years of harboring of 1993 World Trade Center bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin?

~Iraqi Intelligence Service operatives being dispatched to meet with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998 (the year of bin Laden?s fatwa demanding the killing of all Americans, as well as the embassy bombings)?

~Saddam?s official press lionizing bin Laden as ?an Arab and Islamic hero? following the 1998 embassy bombing attacks?

~The continued insistence of high-ranking Clinton administration officials to the 9/11 Commission that the 1998 retaliatory strikes (after the embassy bombings) against a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory were justified because the factory was a chemical weapons hub tied to Iraq and bin Laden?

~Top Clinton administration counterterrorism official Richard Clarke?s assertions, based on intelligence reports in 1999, that Saddam had offered bin Laden asylum after the embassy bombings, and Clarke?s memo to then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, advising him not to fly U-2 missions against bin Laden in Afghanistan because he might be tipped off by Pakistani Intelligence, and ?[a]rmed with that knowledge, old wily Usama will likely boogie to Baghdad?? (See 9/11 Commission Final Report, p. 134 & n.135.)

~Terror master Abu Musab Zarqawi's choice to boogie to Baghdad of all places when he needed surgery after fighting American forces in Afghanistan in 2001?

~Saddam's Intelligence Service running a training camp at Salman Pak, were terrorists were instructed in tactics for assassination, kidnapping and hijacking?

~Former CIA Director George Tenet?s October 7, 2002 letter to Congress, which asserted: Our understanding of the relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda is evolving and is based on sources of varying reliability. Some of the information we have received comes from detainees, including some of high rank.

~We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda going back a decade.

~Credible information indicates that Iraq and Al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression.

~Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of Al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad.

~We have credible reporting that Al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to Al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs.

~Iraq's increasing support to extremist Palestinians coupled with growing indications of relationship with Al Qaeda suggest that Baghdad's links to terrorists will increase, even absent U.S. military action.

 

[BBond]

According the the 9/11 Commission Report there were no ties between Saddam and terrorists.

I'm sure you can find someone to circumvent the facts on the matter. After all, your president did and continues to do so.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Forsythe

I still have doubt whether or not it's muslims.

As stupid as it sounds (and maybe it doesn't), could it be some French terrorist group that's pissed that they "lost" the Olympics?

That's way out there. Sounds like a plot from some indie film.

Maybe Parisians are glad they didn't "win".

 

[Dimkaumd]

stop partisan bickering

any new reports out of London?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

You're kidding, right?

:laugh:

Unfortunately, believe it or not, he's completely serious.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

and for that matter has the US suffered for its fringe idiots who have been responsible for an irresponsible foreign policy for the last 40-50 years?

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[conjur]

The London Blasts: A Firsthand Account
A FORTUNE reports finds himself on a bus right behind the one that was bombed today in the U.K.
By Nelson Schwartz
Thursday, July 7, 2005
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,1080260,00.html

Even before I heard and felt the blast, something seemed not right in London. I was heading back from my office on Waterloo Bridge to my home in Hampstead after pulling an all-nighter. When I walked out on to the bridge to catch a cab at 9:30 am, I saw one emergency vehicle after another go by, lights flashing and sirens wailing. I figured it was a security alert or maybe had something to do with yesterday's Olympic win. There wasn't a single free cab, though, and my usual bus, the 168, wasn't anywhere in sight, even as other buses came and went.

Finally the 168 arrived and I got on. It was more crowded than usual, but it was the normal mix of commuters and the kind of eccentrics who seem to ride the bus in every city. People seemed more talkative than usual for London, though, and I overheard that tube stations were closed and there was a power surge in the Underground. The London Tube is famously unreliable, and I thought, great, another breakdown. Finally a seat opened up, and I sat down next to a young woman with brown hair and glasses. I kept hearing more and more emergency vehicles, though, so I called a reporter friend and asked what was up. She told me the Tube was shut and there were power surges east to west.

A couple of seconds before 10 am, between Euston and Russell Square, I turned the woman next to me, and said is the tube really closed? As she answered, we heard a distinct, deep echoing BOOM. The bus shook ever so slightly. There was silence, followed by muted shouts on the bus, as people asked 'What was that?' Most of the passengers rushed to the exits and the doors opened but it was a typical London rush, fairly orderly and no pushing or shoving. I immediately thought it was a bomb after having lived through 9/11 in Manhattan, and having heard similar booms during the very brief time I was in Iraq. But then I thought, maybe it was a transformer blowing out from the power surges, and post-9/11 urban anxiety was getting the better of me.

I kept calm and stayed on the bus. Where was I going to go, I thought. The bus was moving forward, and even if it were terrorism, they weren't going to attack multiple targets. A Madrid-like attack hadn't yet crossed my mind. My bus crept forward for about three minutes and it was at that point I looked through the windshield and saw what looked like a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square, except the front was crumpled and the top was sheared off. I honestly couldn't process what I was seeing for a moment, and then the familiar images from Israel registered in my brain and I realized it was a blown-up bus. Through trees, I could see splattered blood on the cement walls of the building closest to the front of the bus.

I stayed on my bus, which kept moving, first saying a prayer, and then honestly not knowing what to do. Then as we got closer, I felt as a reporter, I should check it out. I felt ghoulish and voyeuristic but got off the bus. I walked towards the wreckage, getting no closer than 100 yards. There was no noise or smoke coming from the bus, just silence. The only sounds were sirens and the shouts of police telling people to get back, and asking "is anyone a doctor here?" I showed my press card but was told there would be a press conference later by a rather polite emergency services officer, who then went on yelling for people to move back. One man said he was a doctor, and was let through. I started heading back, north towards home, away from the scene. I called my Mom and told her I was ok, but word hadn't yet reached New York.

It reminded me somewhat of Sept. 11th in NY. On that day I was home on the Upper West Side, still in bed, far from downtown Manhattan when the first plane struck the North Tower. But I remember the nervousness, the misplaced laughter, the numb looks of people on the street that day. Then it was people streaming north in Manhattan. It was the same phenomenon in London, but on a much smaller scale. Buses continued to run, taxis were operating, and after a half-hour walk the streets seemed normal, apart from the occasional sirens. It was at that point I felt a real shudder of fear. I thanked God again, and kept walking.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Tango



Because the Saudis have very deep links in the american politics, control A LOT of the world oil markets and beeing an absolute monarchy are a somewhat stable commercial partner. Plus Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, so it is virtually inattackable without causing a global religion war...

Then why Iraq?

Geopolitics. The US wanted a friendly or near-puppet country in the gulf region to be used as a "military safe-island" for years to come. Of course the fact that Iraq had energetic resources did play a role. But it wasn't the main reason for the war. In this administration minds Iraq should be a "foot-in-the-door" in the gulf area, capable of shifting the balance of power of that critical area.

 

[11thHour]

This would be a great opportunity to get a coalition of the willing together to invade north korea.

 

[maluckey]

BBond,
You crack me up!! Keep up the good work. I need a laugh nowand then

MrPabulum sets at least a dozen instances to show you are mistaken, and you pick out one that you disagree with and dismiss all the rest. The 9/11 commission did NOT say that Iraq had no terrorist ties. It stated that there was no direct evidence to link Al-Queda and Iraq to the specific attacks on 9/11.

Iraq has definite terrorist links today, and has had them for thrity years now. Saddam used to offer to pay for Hezbollah suicide bombers that were successful. It's well documented.

 

[conjur]

Police statement:

7 dead at Aldgate
21 at Russell Square/King's Cross (tube)
5 at Edgware Road
unknown number from bus at Tavistock Square

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: TWills

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
Well - so much for Bush's sham 'war on terror'.

It's doing nothing but causing greater amounts of death on innocent civilians.

Well, I suppose you think that those terrorists would have just stayed home if we had not gone over there to kick their &&$ after 9-11.

Bush went to Iraq. There were no terrorists in Iraq. If he went over there to "kick their &&$ after 9-11" WHY THE F*** DID HE "GO TO" IRAQ WHEN THEY WERE AND STILL ARE ALL IN AFGHNAISTAN???

And why not Saudi Arabia where most of them came from?

Because the Saudis have very deep links in the american politics, control A LOT of the world oil markets and beeing an absolute monarchy are a somewhat stable commercial partner. Plus Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, so it is virtually inattackable without causing a global religion war...

So, it is justifiable to allow the apparent, biggest purpetrators of 9/11 free?

We go around raping regimes that have nothing to do with 9/11 or the 'war on terror', spending all our money & lives, and we're not even attacking the tangible, root cause?

How can you hypocrites live with yourselves as you justify this?!!

I've got news for you, the global, religous war is ON, and has been fought for almost 4 years now! In case you haven't noticed!

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: 11thHour
This would be a great opportunity to get a coalition of the willing together to invade north korea.

No, no, no, no... not North Korea... VENEZUELA! They have oil.

 

[rsd]

It's amazing to here the pathetic responses here in this thread from both sides of the political spectrum. It is truly sad that people can fail to show a little humanity but rather mock and politicize for their own agenda this tragedy.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Forsythe
So you're basically just drawing a red lione from the fall of the ottoman empire to, today?
There've been fundies all over the world, and all through the time in every religion.
When you piss of people, you're gonna get burned. I might not agree on it, but for every act, there's a reaction. If you wan't to live with that, be my guest.

The fundies pissed us off numerous times. 9/11 was the final straw. Too bad for them and unfortunate for those in the ME who have to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots.

You're still ignoring THE FACT that there were no terrorists in Iraq. No WMD.

So how can the people of Iraq be forced "to suffer because of the actions of their fringe idiots" when they weren't their fringe idiots?

You still ignore that we are in Iraq to have an impact on the entire ME. Since we can't possibly invade the entire ME all at once we have to start somewhere and Iraq was the best place to start.

And there were terrorists in Iraq prior to the invasion. We've already been over that.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=429987

Where are the WMD? Who knows. Maybe they're stashed in all those mass graves in Kosovo? You know, the mass graves containing a 100,000 that Clinton gave as the reason for going into Kosovo that were subsequently not found?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Tango



Because the Saudis have very deep links in the american politics, control A LOT of the world oil markets and beeing an absolute monarchy are a somewhat stable commercial partner. Plus Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, so it is virtually inattackable without causing a global religion war...

Then why Iraq?

Geopolitics. The US wanted a friendly or near-puppet country in the gulf region to be used as a "military safe-island" for years to come. Of course the fact that Iraq had energetic resources did play a role. But it wasn't the main reason for the war. In this administration minds Iraq should be a "foot-in-the-door" in the gulf area, capable of shifting the balance of power of that critical area.

So all of the charges of WMD and terrorist ties were made up to justify a "military safe-island" for years to come in Iraq. And Americans have no problem with this?

I wonder how all of the dead and mutilated Iraqi civilians feel about it.

 

[conjur]

Here ya go, TLC:




You need one.


Now, can you all get back to discussing news about the events in London?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Dimkaumd, if you wanted a tribute thread, then having the title as "whats going on in London???" is not something that screams out "Tributes for the Victims of the London Bombings".

Now, if you want that type of thread, please start one as such and request the moderator to sticky it.

 

[ShinGouki]

I just hope this whole incident doesn't further alienate the large muslim community in London and across the rest of the UK. They have had to put up with enough flak since 9/11 due to ignorant people overe here who don't bother to take the time to get to know these people. Whatever your thoughts on the Koran, I have many muslim friends; plenty of whom would be considered devout and they are some of the most intelligent pacificistic people I know. I'm aware of the Quaran containing many refrences that can be interpreted in many ways by people looking to place blame. However like any religion it is open to intepretation and you'd be hard pressed to convince any of my muslim friends that killing innocents could ever be excused by the Quaran.

Seriously it really irks me how much muslims have to put up with in my country these days. They've suffered rascism ever since they got here, large numbers of them coming over after the second world war, many of them who fought for our country at that time, many of them invited here to help fill the huge labour shortages caused by the loss of life during that period. Now they are persecuted for their religion as well as the colour of their skin without any provocation, purely due to idiots like these murderes that caused todays incidents.

If people in the UK spent more time trying to make the average muslim feel welcome in our society and supported the moderate community, which from personal experience far outweighs the fundamentalists then maybe we could send a message to these people that you can plant bombs all you like but you won't change our belief systems and you won't change our day to day lives through your cowardly tactics. They would be marginalised by the very people they claim to stand for and would lose any kind of voice.

I'm not advocating some liberal lie down and take it stance, I'm merely pointing out that common responses to these events seem to be targetting a majority of one group based on the actions of an minority. This just gives strength to the fundamentalists cause and sends a message that they can change our way of life through terror.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant i just really want people in my country to stand up and not let this give further strength to those who want to make us a police state and push agendas that seggragate a country that benefits greatly from its multiculturalism.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken


You still ignore that we are in Iraq to have an impact on the entire ME. Since we can't possibly invade the entire ME all at once we have to start somewhere and Iraq was the best place to start.

And there were terrorists in Iraq prior to the invasion. We've already been over that.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=429987

Where are the WMD? Who knows. Maybe they're stashed in all those mass graves in Kosovo? You know, the mass graves containing a 100,000 that Clinton gave as the reason for going into Kosovo that were subsequently not found?

You ignore the fact that neither Bush nor anyone has the right to designate a nation homefield in his "war on terror". Especially in light of the fact that the nation he specified, Iraq, had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 OR TERRORISM.

Your true self shines through when you first refuse to condemn your "leaders'" lies and the carnage of innocent Iraqis that resulted from them then segue into your usual Clinton rant which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the current topic.

You're a true sicko.

 

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: BBond
According the the 9/11 Commission Report there were no ties between Saddam and terrorists.

I'm sure you can find someone to circumvent the facts on the matter. After all, your president did and continues to do so.

Sure, as far as 9/11 goes, Saddam didn't pull the trigger. That's not what we're talking about. Saddam harbored, protected and nourished those interested in launching terrorist attacks against the U.S. mainland and American interests abroad. It comes down to one assumption: is the reaction to 9/11 a law enforcement matter, or a military matter? I'm sure we'll always disagree about this.

But Dimkaumd is right. No point in bickering at this hour.