Whatever happened to "fight or flight"?

[XMan]

One of the things I just can't wrap my head around is the fact that nobody seemed to fight back. According to the news reports, people in one of the classrooms just let themselves be lined up against the wall and be shot . . .

You would think that at least one person would have thought - do nothing, die for certain. Do something, maybe live. Throw a textbook at the guy, or a chair, or something.

I dunno. The whole deal is screwed up. But it's just really depressing that everybody just sat there and let it happen. Somebody I was talking to compared it to the Kitty Genovese incident, and in some ways its similar, but I would think that if it were actually happening to you, you would be more likely to do something.

Bystander syndrome

 

[KarmaPolice]

I said this in another post as well. What would you do. There is that one guy who helped keep the door shut. Its extreamly hard to know what you would do in that kind of situation. I would like to think that I would take action and try to stop the guy when he comes in the room but I have never been put into that situation and I am guessing that most of the people here haven't either. My first reaction no doubt would be to duck take cover and run. But if i was in a class room and had a little time and knew the guy was coming I would think that i would try to close the door or hide behind something with a heavy object and try to hit him when he opened the door. I know in a lot of my classes there are some big guys and i just know they have a knife or two ( I live in the country side).

Hiding in the classroom seems like the worst idea....but again its easy to say that when you are sitting in your room typing on a laptop.

 

[uhohs]

yeah, i've had similar thoughts. if he starts lining you up for execution, you might as well try something/anything.

 

[GTaudiophile]

You never know how you will react until the bullets start flying.

Edit: Then again, I wonder if we have become too soft to such action in this country. We have become perhaps desensitized to violence but also taught that being offensive is wrong...therefore people become defensive.

 

[XMan]

I can understand running when he's coming down the hall or whatever, but when he came into the classroom and made people lineup, that's what blows me away.

None of the girls had pepper spray in their purses?

Shoot, you throw a cell phone at somebody hard enough, it will make them flinch away at the very least. I know hindsight is 20/20, and we weren't there, but I've been shot at before . . . everything kinda slows down, except for your thinking.

Hat tip to the professor who blocked off the door so his kids could away. Text

 

[fallenangel99]

Yeah you can talk all you want, but I guarantee you , if you were in that situation, you would not do anything. Few people are brave to do something in that kind of situation.

 

[JS80]

that israeli professor had the idea. people nowadays don't understand self sacrifice for the betterment of their fellow man. too much to lose.

 

[herm0016]

first thing i would have done is to get a gun from weapons storage in the basement. though, we never know what we are really going to do when something happens. though i go to school where most people have a knife on them and own a gun close by. somehow i feel safer knowing this.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: XMan
I can understand running when he's coming down the hall or whatever, but when he came into the classroom and made people lineup, that's what blows me away.

None of the girls had pepper spray in their purses?

Shoot, you throw a cell phone at somebody hard enough, it will make them flinch away at the very least. I know hindsight is 20/20, and we weren't there, but I've been shot at before . . . everything kinda slows down, except for your thinking.

Yea, your thinking speeds up into a mess of incoherent thought until you get hit, then all you can think about is the burning of the wound. Not everybody is that way, but I know I was the first time I was in a situation where guns were firing at something other than a paper target.
My point being, it is almost impossible for untrained people to think rationally in situations such as these.

 

[Mo0o]

It's too easy to play armchair quarterback in situations like these

 

[Alone]

Gotta say I'd probably run if he was coming down the hall... However, if we're being told to line up so he could let one off one at a time, well, fsck that, I'm at least going to try something.

 

[NFS4]

You can talk all big now, but wait until it happens to you. And they didn't know if maybe he had an partner down the hall or right behind him. They didn't know what to do.

To tell you the truth, I'd probably be frozen in fear and pissing/sh!tting my pants.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Yea, your thinking speeds up into a mess of incoherent thought until you get hit, then all you can think about is the burning of the wound. Not everybody is that way, but I know I was the first time I was in a situation where guns were firing at something other than a paper target.
My point being, it is almost impossible for untrained people to think rationally in situations such as these.

So here's a question: should students receive some sort of basic self-defense training so they can better-handle such a situation? I'm not talking about everyone learning Muay Thai. More like a training video, or convocation, or something to better prepare people for the worst. I know that sort of thing would upset some people for whatever reason, but if it had clicked in just a few of the kids' heads, this tragedy might not have been quite as bad.

I dunno. Maybe something like that isn't reasonable.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: herm0016
first thing i would have done is to get a gun from weapons storage in the basement. though, we never know what we are really going to do when something happens. though i go to school where most people have a knife on them and own a gun close by. somehow i feel safer knowing this.

you go to a school that stores weapons in their basement?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: XMan
I can understand running when he's coming down the hall or whatever, but when he came into the classroom and made people lineup, that's what blows me away.

None of the girls had pepper spray in their purses?

Shoot, you throw a cell phone at somebody hard enough, it will make them flinch away at the very least. I know hindsight is 20/20, and we weren't there, but I've been shot at before . . . everything kinda slows down, except for your thinking.

Yea, your thinking speeds up into a mess of incoherent thought until you get hit, then all you can think about is the burning of the wound. Not everybody is that way, but I know I was the first time I was in a situation where guns were firing at something other than a paper target.
My point being, it is almost impossible for untrained people to think rationally in situations such as these.

Ive been in life threatening situations and i agree your thoughts go crazy. I prob could have handled the situation better but I must say myself I did not lose my head.

 

[Alone]

Originally posted by: NFS4
You can talk all big now, but wait until it happens to you. And they didn't know if maybe he had an partner down the hall or right behind him. They didn't know what to do.

Would you let yourself be executed, due to the fear of dying anyways? I mean, if you think about it at least a little bit logically, it'll look like this:

Option 1
Stand your ground, line up against the wall and be shot.

Option 2
-- Succeed
Fight back and stop the gunman, no accomplice with him.

-- Fail
Fight back and get shot anyways, but at least you died trying.

I mean, not fighting back won't help your case at all. In a situation like this, you've got nothing to lose.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: NFS4
You can talk all big now, but wait until it happens to you. And they didn't know if maybe he had an partner down the hall or right behind him. They didn't know what to do.

To tell you the truth, I'd probably be frozen in fear and pissing/sh!tting my pants.

I KNOW what I would do. I've been robbed at gunpoint before. I ran praying "feet don't fail me now." Anyone saying they would attack a crazy gunman is either crazy themselves or lying out their ass.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

I'd rather die fighting - worst case scenario, I get shot to death struggling for his gun, he's wasted a few precious rounds and a good chunk of time, during which some people might be able to run away, or swarm him and bash his head in with whatever is handy.

My wife never likes to hear it, but she knows that I'd rather die fighting to save a life than passively give up my own.

And who knows. Some day someone might call my bluff, and I won't be here to say "I told you so."

But I'd rather be remembered like that.

- M4H

 

[maddogchen]

i didn't read that part anywhere in the news articles i read. does someone have a link to where they get lined up and shot?

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Yea, your thinking speeds up into a mess of incoherent thought until you get hit, then all you can think about is the burning of the wound. Not everybody is that way, but I know I was the first time I was in a situation where guns were firing at something other than a paper target.
My point being, it is almost impossible for untrained people to think rationally in situations such as these.

So here's a question: should students receive some sort of basic self-defense training so they can better-handle such a situation? I'm not talking about everyone learning Muay Thai. More like a training video, or convocation, or something to better prepare people for the worst. I know that sort of thing would upset some people for whatever reason, but if it had clicked in just a few of the kids' heads, this tragedy might not have been quite as bad.

I dunno. Maybe something like that isn't reasonable.

Military service is the only thing that is going to adequately prepare someone for such a situation, in my opinion. And even then, some people just aren't wired to be able to react rationally in such situations.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: herm0016
first thing i would have done is to get a gun from weapons storage in the basement. though, we never know what we are really going to do when something happens. though i go to school where most people have a knife on them and own a gun close by. somehow i feel safer knowing this.

you go to a school that stores weapons in their basement?

i go to school where most people have a knife on them and own a gun close by

yeah, what school is this? the ghetto?

 

[Alone]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'd rather die fighting - worst case scenario, I get shot to death struggling for his gun, he's wasted a few precious rounds and a good chunk of time, during which some people might be able to run away, or swarm him and bash his head in with whatever is handy.

My wife never likes to hear it, but she knows that I'd rather die fighting to save a life than passively give up my own.

And who knows. Some day someone might call my bluff, and I won't be here to say "I told you so."

But I'd rather be remembered like that.

- M4H

I feel exactly the same way.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: NFS4
You can talk all big now, but wait until it happens to you. And they didn't know if maybe he had an partner down the hall or right behind him. They didn't know what to do.

To tell you the truth, I'd probably be frozen in fear and pissing/sh!tting my pants.

I KNOW what I would do. I've been robbed at gunpoint before. I ran praying "feet don't fail me now." Anyone saying they would attack a crazy gunman is either crazy themselves or lying out their ass.

In a robbery or mugging, the guy is generally looking for "your money or your life" - not both. I'll gladly toss the wallet and run like I stole something at Walmart - I carry minimal cash and I'll have all my ID cancelled before the guy even makes it back to the crackhouse.

- M4H

 

[Linux23]

I'm not the smartest man in the world, but i'm pretty sure a bullet moves a lot faster than a human being.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'd rather die fighting - worst case scenario, I get shot to death struggling for his gun, he's wasted a few precious rounds and a good chunk of time, during which some people might be able to run away, or swarm him and bash his head in with whatever is handy.

My wife never likes to hear it, but she knows that I'd rather die fighting to save a life than passively give up my own.

And who knows. Some day someone might call my bluff, and I won't be here to say "I told you so."

But I'd rather be remembered like that.

- M4H

Yeah, but aren't you talking about if someone invaded your house or jumped your ass on the sidewalk? Not having you trapped in a class room like fish in a barrel.