Question What would you like to have in Raspberry Pi 5?

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scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
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I really wouldn't mind having something based on a previous generation of mobile phone SOC with different firmware tuning. There are SOCs that are still in production for low end phones that serve less developed countries that have compelling specs, are produced in enough volume to be cheap(ish) and provide a decent amount of I/O. Something with at least a pair of A75+ cores and a quad of a53+ LP cores could be put to decent use with sufficiently open driver stacks.

My problem with the ecosystem is that I can get the same or similar performance for similar money in the tiny uSFF form factor celeron and pentium boxes for sale all over the place. Once you pass the $200 mark, you're in i3-1115g4 spec laptops that will run rings around any Pi. The tinyness of the box isn't important to me. Power levels on a laptop running with the lid closed and a low power plan aren't a deal breaker level of different from Pi setups for me.
I wonder if it would be possible to hack Unix on to an Apple TV box. The A-12 is pretty potent, and the device is cheap. I know a team is getting Unix on to the M1 and M2 Macs.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,170
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I wonder if it would be possible to hack Unix on to an Apple TV box. The A-12 is pretty potent, and the device is cheap. I know a team is getting Unix on to the M1 and M2 Macs.
Likewise, much bigger device but the Xbox Series S is $300 and was temporarily on sale for $250. The problem with the Apple TV, iPad and that XBox I just mentioned is they purposefully make it harder to add new software in the firmware for the device is not using a traditional boot loader that MacOS uses, by design.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,113
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As powerful a cpu core as possible. Ideally a dual core of big cores.

Up to 8 GB of ram is fine for me.

Also, a native nvme slot or even SATA m2 would be nice. Hanging a USB 3 external drive off of USB (thankful it’s got good support for this now!) adds a level of clunk to every thing that requires semi-serious storage and external NVME drives don’t really work due to power draw.

More single thread performance and better native storage are pretty much my entire wishlist.
Yeah I full agree. Big.little doesn't make a lot of sense and does A53 cores are anemic like a lot slower than Pi4 A-72. SO yeah big step up in the main CPU for single-threaded would help a lot plus as you say faster storage. Updating the OS can be extremely slow and I'm not sure it's only due to the CPU and not the slowness of the SD-card.

Having said that how big is the market for short 2240 m2 drives? Toshiba made some tiny 30mm drives at one point at least. (checked local shop and I could get such a 30mm card with 256 gb for $70). I think these would be a lot faster than sd-cards.
 

burninatortech4

Senior member
Jan 29, 2014
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Pi needs to be affordable. Start adding expensive I/O and you might as well go low TDP Intel or AMD.

My guess for Rpi5: Quad core ARM v9, [4,8,16 LPDDR5], m.2 with 2 PCI 3.0 lanes, Gigabit Ethernet, WiFi. 14 or 12nm.

ARM v9 to me would mean a Mail GPU but perhaps they go with Broadcom again.

Late 2023
 
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hasu

Senior member
Apr 5, 2001
993
10
81
RPi-4 with 4GB RAM is sufficient

RTC - a must
NVMe SSD - Nice to have
Built-in POE - if possible

No point in making it more power hungry or expensive.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,578
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Isn't the point of Pi being small and very affordable? I don't agree with keep scaling up and blurring the line with more expensive devices. Have the best it can, but at the very affordable price point.

I don't even see $75 as being cheap. It should be $30, at the most. If I want a "faster computer" I'd just wait for eBay deals on a proper one.

-Open source
-Ultra cheap
-Ultra small

If any of the top 3 are compromised then you are seriously losing the point of going to Raspberry Pi.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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There is a market for a "Pro" line of Raspberry Pi. Keep a simple, cheap incremental version tree, but make a higher end one that targets something closer to a $100 SBC.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,170
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Isn't the point of Pi being small and very affordable? I don't agree with keep scaling up and blurring the line with more expensive devices. Have the best it can, but at the very affordable price point.

I don't even see $75 as being cheap. It should be $30, at the most. If I want a "faster computer" I'd just wait for eBay deals on a proper one.

-Open source
-Ultra cheap
-Ultra small

If any of the top 3 are compromised then you are seriously losing the point of going to Raspberry Pi.
Agreed.


There is a market for a "Pro" line of Raspberry Pi. Keep a simple, cheap incremental version tree, but make a higher end one that targets something closer to a $100 SBC.
Even if the same company "makes" it I feel they should give it a different name like cheesecake.

There is a difference between a 25 to 30 dollar device, a 50 dollar one, and a 100 dollar one even if they are all useful and have utility.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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They really need to up the CPU perf and video decoding/encoding capabilities. It also needs a decent native storage solution, a M.2 slot for NVME would be perfect, no need for a SATA controller. Sata would only be good as a NAS controller, and thats something you could add in the M.2 slot.

In short they need at least match, and probably beat the Orange PI 5 / Rock PI 5 and petty much any SBC that are based on the RK3588 that does circles around the old RPI 4.


 
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GunsMadeAmericaFree

Senior member
Jan 23, 2007
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Dang - both of those are $145 or more - about DOUBLE what I usually pay for a decent PC motherboard......

Now granted, I guess it comes with the processor and RAM, though.....
but still, it's a hard sell when you can get complete thin clients & such pretty cheaply.........
 

GunsMadeAmericaFree

Senior member
Jan 23, 2007
989
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Dang - both of those are $145 or more - about DOUBLE what I usually pay for a decent PC motherboard......

Now granted, I guess it comes with the processor and RAM, though.....
but still, it's a hard sell when you can get complete thin clients & such pretty cheaply.........
Wish I could see a "Cpu Marks" comparison between both of these and the AMD GX-415GA. (about 1,395 cpu marks)
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Wish I could see a "Cpu Marks" comparison between both of these and the AMD GX-415GA. (about 1,395 cpu marks)

I cant be sure how acurate is that, but CPU perf at least seems to be a bit below a Ryzen 2200G. But it definately seems to be faster than the Gemini Lakes.

You are aware for what price these sell though, aren't you?
I saw The Orange PI 5 in Amazon at $83 for the 4GB version, $99 the 8GB version and $132 the 16GB version. The RPI4 is petty much unavalible everywere and if you can find one, chances are they are more expensive than that.

Edit: Its a pre-order.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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I saw The Orange PI 5 in Amazon at $83 for the 4GB version, $99 the 8GB version and $132 the 16GB version. The RPI4 is petty much unavalible everywere and if you can find one, chances are they are more expensive than that.
RPi is popular, and it's popular also due to the price. RPi4's MSRP starts at $35. It being sold out (or available only at scalper prices) while others are available is no surprise in that regard.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,657
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RPi is popular, and it's popular also due to the price. RPi4's MSRP starts at $35. It being sold out (or available only at scalper prices) while others are available is no surprise in that regard.
RPI has been unavalible for a long time now, not only the RPI4, petty much all versions of it are MIA. RPI5 is already confirmed as not happening in 2023, so what i can say? Sadly i dont think $35 to be a realistic target anymore. Also the only RPI4 version at $35 was the 1GB version, the 2, 4 and 8GB versions were 45, 55, and 75 respectely.
The original pre-order price for the Orange PI 5 4GB was $60, so launch pricing was petty much equal, and its certanly possible for the Orange PI 5 to cost less than what it costs now.
 
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MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
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I really have almost no desire for a more powerful Pi5. I'd actually want more peripherals, the Pi is plenty powerful enough for most stuff I want to do, but I'd like a couple real HW UARTs, an RTC, maybe a couple proper PWM timers, a couple channels of ADC and a DAC. The Pi ecosystem is great but it's a pain to always have to hat to provide interface to the physical world. Be great to have a Pi embedded, especially something in the (SODIMM) compute module or Zero versions
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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They really need to up the CPU perf and video decoding/encoding capabilities. It also needs a decent native storage solution, a M.2 slot for NVME would be perfect, no need for a SATA controller. Sata would only be good as a NAS controller, and thats something you could add in the M.2 slot.

In short they need at least match, and probably beat the Orange PI 5 / Rock PI 5 and petty much any SBC that are based on the RK3588 that does circles around the old RPI 4.
What do you need that much power for? Gaming? If you want a cheap emulation box, buy an Xbox Series S. If you want a machine to tinker with Linux gaming, buy a Steam Deck. If you want to stream video, then watch the apps built into your TV, or on a tablet, or on a games console you already have, or on one of a dozen other devices.

The original aim for the Pi was to get children learning to code. You need a cheap, ubiquitous platform, with a bunch of really straightforward IO you can use to drive devices for projects. You don't need blazing fast CPU, you don't need NVMe SSDs. Pushing up the price with unnecessary power defeats the purpose of this project.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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I really have almost no desire for a more powerful Pi5. I'd actually want more peripherals, the Pi is plenty powerful enough for most stuff I want to do, but I'd like a couple real HW UARTs, an RTC, maybe a couple proper PWM timers, a couple channels of ADC and a DAC. The Pi ecosystem is great but it's a pain to always have to hat to provide interface to the physical world. Be great to have a Pi embedded, especially something in the (SODIMM) compute module or Zero versions
RPI compute modules already exist and for the other thing, you can connect a RPI Pico to a serial port if you need more of that type of I/O, that seems like the exact kind of stuff that should be relegated to optional expansion. And the Zero 2 W should have enoght power for most task that is not trying to run a full os as a pc, but its MIA.

What do you need that much power for? Gaming? If you want a cheap emulation box, buy an Xbox Series S. If you want a machine to tinker with Linux gaming, buy a Steam Deck. If you want to stream video, then watch the apps built into your TV, or on a tablet, or on a games console you already have, or on one of a dozen other devices.

The original aim for the Pi was to get children learning to code. You need a cheap, ubiquitous platform, with a bunch of really straightforward IO you can use to drive devices for projects. You don't need blazing fast CPU, you don't need NVMe SSDs. Pushing up the price with unnecessary power defeats the purpose of this project.
Yeah, well, gaming in retro boxes is one of the big uses, low power home servers is another, with the extra power multimedia playback will be another, in fact in actually running android 13 on my tvs with a rpi 4. Not to mention the additional compute power would be very usefull for AI assisted tasks.

The RPI is a computer kit after all, and every time i tryied to use the RPI4 as a regular PC i feel it was underpowered for this task, and im not talking about games here. If you want to program on it you need to use it as a PC. It can be done, im not saying it cant, but is not a good experience. Especially if you are talking about the 1GB version at $35, you need to remember those things cant be upgraded.

So yeah, they need to up the CPU, GPU perf, and the multimedia capabilities. And it needs a decent storage option, MicroSD is not suited for the task of running an OS on it and you are kinda forced into a external usb ssd.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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The RPI is a computer kit after all, and every time i tryied to use the RPI4 as a regular PC i feel it was underpowered for this task, and im not talking about games here. If you want to program on it you need to use it as a PC. It can be done, im not saying it cant, but is not a good experience. Especially if you are talking about the 1GB version at $35, you need to remember those things cant be upgraded.

So yeah, they need to up the CPU, GPU perf, and the multimedia capabilities. And it needs a decent storage option, MicroSD is not suited for the task of running an OS on it and you are kinda forced into a external usb ssd.
Kids these days will generally already have access to a "normal" computer. The Pi needs to be a safe space to tinker. If you trash the OS, whoops, just pull the SD card and flash it again. It's not their one and only computer, it's a cheap device that they can screw around with.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,657
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Kids these days will generally already have access to a "normal" computer. The Pi needs to be a safe space to tinker. If you trash the OS, whoops, just pull the SD card and flash it again. It's not their one and only computer, it's a cheap device that they can screw around with.
That probably will be for the new Zero boards, no one expects the RPI5 to provide a $35 version at this point, a cut down "Zero 3" at $35 or below should be the one for that. In fact the Zero 2 W is already petty decent for that for much less. If you could find one at the original price that is.
 

GunsMadeAmericaFree

Senior member
Jan 23, 2007
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I want widespread availability of the Pie Zero 2 - I'd love to use it to build a Linux system, or possibly a tiny MAME emulation system - but you can't find them ANYWHERE, unless you want to pay $100 on Ebay or something for a used one.....
 

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