Question What would you like to have in Raspberry Pi 5?

[Greyguy1948]

Raspberry Pi 5 is not announced yet but what would you like to have?
I guess both ARM32 and ARM64 are demanded so X2 and X3 are not any alternatives.
How much cost and how much RAM?

 

[Nothingness]

Benchmarks by Phoronix:

Raspberry Pi 5 Benchmarks: Significantly Better Performance, Improved I/O Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

A bit slower than Orange Pi 5.

Raspberry Pi 5 Graphics Continue With Open-Source Driver & Crazy Fast Compared To RPi 4 - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Graphics speed is much improved vs Raspberry Pi 4.

 

[SteinFG]

Pi 5 has its own southbridge chip now, for IO (cameras, displays, usb, ethernet, uart, rtc, gpio). Pi foundation can now update cpu and io independently. Now there's a chance for "Pi 5+" in the future (2025-2026), with updated IO or updated CPU

 

[Shivansps]

Makes sense, there is not much point in upgrading the southbridge, but they could release an CPU upgrade rather easily now, and they will need to do it soon as quad A76 at the end of 2023 is not good. Next year this may be behind of the AllWinner SoCs with the 2xA78+6xA55 and maybe even some RISC-V, lets remember the Lichee PI 4A was already faster than the RPI4.

Times have changed and this RPI release does not seems to have the same impact as before, now we have things like the RK3588 and RK3588S that is better than this at comparable price (Orange PI 5A 8GB is at $85 + shipping right now) and the Orange PI 3B (RK3566) that gives you a full M.2 slot with a single pcie lane to play with for just $30 closing the rear (ill try this soon for NAS/Jellyfin/router/wireguard).

The SBC market is a lot more crowded now.

 

[eek2121]

The Raspberry Pi Foundation should consider releasing a socketable/upgradable product in a new form factor. Maybe call it the model S or U. Make it allow for upgradable memory, an NVME port, PCIE, and CPU. I understand why they don’t (these boards are practically designed to be drop in replacements with few modifications), but it would be nice.

That being said, I have a Pi 5 on preorder.

 

[Shivansps]

Benchmarks by Phoronix:

Raspberry Pi 5 Benchmarks: Significantly Better Performance, Improved I/O Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

A bit slower than Orange Pi 5.

Raspberry Pi 5 Graphics Continue With Open-Source Driver & Crazy Fast Compared To RPi 4 - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Graphics speed is much improved vs Raspberry Pi 4.

There is not much point to compare it with the Orange PI 5, the RK3588S is just better, less heat, less power (it is 8nm vs 16nm after all), 4xA76+4xA55 vs 4xA76 and im petty sure the G610 MP4 is a lot faster too.
The main points for the RPI5 vs the Orange PI 5 is price (to a point, both 8GB versions are about the same right now), it has wifi and the pci-e lane can be configured as 3.0.

With the Rk3588 getting mainlined and the G610 getting full mesa support i think software support should be very good as well. So things are looking good moving into 2024, i hope this make some of the vendors asking too much for the RK3588S to start lowering prices (Radxa im looking at you).

 

[blckgrffn]

Interesting points, but I think... not the point.

If you want a faster box, a micro PC is sooooo much faster.

If you want a different ARM micro PC, you lose a ton, and I mean a ton, of community support. So much stuff just works on a Pi. They get used for kiosks and edge devices (the phone system I used used them to aggregate voice streams and as a local relay with a cloud PBX) and projects like Umbrel and PiHole just work so easily on a Pi.

It's like saying a Synology is "too slow" for what you pay. The speed isn't the only feature considered.

Other options won't have the track record, vendor support or community support of the platform.

As for me, I think its great. Pleased to see and NVME hat as that will allow for solid storage without hoping a USB 3 to sata adapter will be good and the Pi 4 was frankly fast enough for many tasks and this will be great.

I've still got a first gen B series Pi as my PiHole and its been working great for... years. Many years. It runs Diet Pi like a champ.

TL;DR - I am only rolling a Pi SBC or I am using a PC, the other options in the middle are distinctly unappealing to me.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Pi 5 has its own southbridge chip now, for IO (cameras, displays, usb, ethernet, uart, rtc, gpio). Pi foundation can now update cpu and io independently. Now there's a chance for "Pi 5+" in the future (2025-2026), with updated IO or updated CPU

It also allows for a backport. Which they take the Pi 5 design and port it back to a heavily DTCO 22nm node. Then, call it "Pi 4+" down the road.

Pi 5(16FFC) -> Pi 4+ (5 @ pi 400 clocks)[22FDX+]

(22FDX vs 14LPP = 30% lower power, 22FDX+ vs 14LPP = 50% lower power)
France Fab(FDSOI), Additional 2 Modules at Dresden(FDSOI), Additional Module at Malta(FDSOI). New Singapore Fab is doing 28nm now "And this latest investment by GF demonstrates that our strategies are working. Fab 7h will be the first wafer fab in Singapore capable of manufacturing specialty chips at 28nm." It is only a matter of time for 22FDX to be there as well, they had integration CVs for 22FDX for awhile now.

Pi 4 = 8W total power
Pi 5 = 12W total power
"Under stress, we hit 86.7°C (7 Watts) and saw the CPU throttle from 2.4 GHz down to 1.5 GHz." - Tom's Hardware

Getting the Pi 5 design from the 12W virus-load down to a 5W virus-load is vital for mass-market potential. The more low the total TDP, the more devices the Pi can be in w/o PaaF (performance as a fee).

Pi 5 Compute Module, will probably follow the RK3588 Compute Module. Get cluster board -> get compute modules -> buy heatsinks to keep stock performance.

 

[burninatortech4]

Pi needs to be affordable. Start adding expensive I/O and you might as well go low TDP Intel or AMD.

My guess for Rpi5: Quad core ARM v9, [4,8,16 LPDDR5], m.2 with 2 PCI 3.0 lanes, Gigabit Ethernet, WiFi. 14 or 12nm.

ARM v9 to me would mean a Mail GPU but perhaps they go with Broadcom again.

Late 2023

I wasn't far off back in December. Turns out it's still ARM v8 and has 1 PCI 2.0 lane all on 16nm.

 

[Shivansps]

Interesting points, but I think... not the point.

If you want a faster box, a micro PC is sooooo much faster.

If you want a different ARM micro PC, you lose a ton, and I mean a ton, of community support. So much stuff just works on a Pi. They get used for kiosks and edge devices (the phone system I used used them to aggregate voice streams and as a local relay with a cloud PBX) and projects like Umbrel and PiHole just work so easily on a Pi.

It's like saying a Synology is "too slow" for what you pay. The speed isn't the only feature considered.

Other options won't have the track record, vendor support or community support of the platform.

As for me, I think its great. Pleased to see and NVME hat as that will allow for solid storage without hoping a USB 3 to sata adapter will be good and the Pi 4 was frankly fast enough for many tasks and this will be great.

I've still got a first gen B series Pi as my PiHole and its been working great for... years. Many years. It runs Diet Pi like a champ.

TL;DR - I am only rolling a Pi SBC or I am using a PC, the other options in the middle are distinctly unappealing to me.

offcourse, it depends on what you want. Altrought ill like to say that a a lot of the stuff done and supported for the RPI4 do work on other boards as well, as those things do not need an specific distro/kernel and can be deployed on other OS/Kernels.
Since they are launching 4 and 8GB first i think it is because they are targeting general use and emulators, and not specific operations like a Pihole, RaspAP, etc

I wasn't far off back in December. Turns out it's still ARM v8 and has 1 PCI 2.0 lane all on 16nm.

It is 3.0, but only certified for 2.0. Can be changed to 3.0 by adding a line in the config.txt

 

[aigomorla]

Introducing: Raspberry Pi 5! - Raspberry Pi

Announcing Raspberry Pi 5, coming in late October: over 2x faster than Raspberry Pi 4, featuring silicon designed in-house at Raspberry Pi.

www.raspberrypi.com

Today, we’re delighted to announce the launch of Raspberry Pi 5, coming at the end of October. Priced at $60 for the 4GB variant, and $80 for its 8GB sibling (plus your local taxes),

They didn't include scalper tax....
So id say $180 for the 4GB and $240 dollars for the 8GB.

I really want one, but i know its gonna be a nightmare fighting against bots and scalpers, since the 4 even was on back order for such a long time.

 

[NTMBK]

The Raspberry Pi Foundation should consider releasing a socketable/upgradable product in a new form factor. Maybe call it the model S or U. Make it allow for upgradable memory, an NVME port, PCIE, and CPU. I understand why they don’t (these boards are practically designed to be drop in replacements with few modifications), but it would be nice.

That being said, I have a Pi 5 on preorder.

Sockets also increase both board size and cost. Doesn't fit their intended purpose.

 

[NostaSeronx]

The Raspberry Pi Foundation should consider releasing a socketable/upgradable product in a new form factor. Maybe call it the model S or U. Make it allow for upgradable memory, an NVME port, PCIE, and CPU. I understand why they don’t (these boards are practically designed to be drop in replacements with few modifications), but it would be nice.

Sockets also increase both board size and cost. Doesn't fit their intended purpose.

If they are going to do anything with upgradability. I hope we get something like Intel's Compute Card + Dock.

Which would just be revision of this:

Buy a Compute Module 4 – Raspberry Pi

The power of Raspberry Pi 4 in a compact form factor for deeply embedded applications. Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 incorporates a quad-core ARM Cortex-A72 processor, dual video output, and a wide selection of other interfaces. Available in 32 variants, with a range of RAM and eMMC Flash...

www.raspberrypi.com

Buy a Compute Module 4 IO Board – Raspberry Pi

Exposing every interface from Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4, the Compute Module 4 IO Board provides a development platform and reference base-board design for our most powerful Compute Module yet.

www.raspberrypi.com

For the "aesthetic" consumer market who wants everything cased at purchase.

Instead of something gross like this:

Raspberry Pi Laptop | Nex Computer

nexdock.com

Get something elegant and clean like this:

The Tale of NexDock and Intel Compute Card | Nex Computer

nexdock.com

Education market is still blaring "Holding Out For A Hero" after Intel left them dry.

 

[eek2121]

Introducing: Raspberry Pi 5! - Raspberry Pi

Announcing Raspberry Pi 5, coming in late October: over 2x faster than Raspberry Pi 4, featuring silicon designed in-house at Raspberry Pi.

www.raspberrypi.com

They didn't include scalper tax....
So id say $180 for the 4GB and $240 dollars for the 8GB.

I really want one, but i know its gonna be a nightmare fighting against bots and scalpers, since the 4 even was on back order for such a long time.

You can get a Pi at MSRP today. I also preordered the Pi 5 at MSRP.

Sockets also increase both board size and cost. Doesn't fit their intended purpose.

Gotta disagree, but I do agree (shockingly enough!) with @NostaSeronx below. (sorry man, just giving you a hard time). One of my SBCs takes this approach and it allows you to reuse the IO portion of the board.

The whole “upgradability” thing has nothing to do with DIY, it is to cut down on ewaste and potentially lower costs to implement.

If they are going to do anything with upgradability. I hope we get something like Intel's Compute Card + Dock.

Which would just be revision of this:

Buy a Compute Module 4 – Raspberry Pi

The power of Raspberry Pi 4 in a compact form factor for deeply embedded applications. Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 incorporates a quad-core ARM Cortex-A72 processor, dual video output, and a wide selection of other interfaces. Available in 32 variants, with a range of RAM and eMMC Flash...

www.raspberrypi.com

Buy a Compute Module 4 IO Board – Raspberry Pi

Exposing every interface from Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4, the Compute Module 4 IO Board provides a development platform and reference base-board design for our most powerful Compute Module yet.

www.raspberrypi.com

For the "aesthetic" consumer market who wants everything cased at purchase.

Instead of something gross like this:

Raspberry Pi Laptop | Nex Computer

nexdock.com

Get something elegant and clean like this:

The Tale of NexDock and Intel Compute Card | Nex Computer

nexdock.com

Education market is still blaring "Holding Out For A Hero" after Intel left them dry.

Yep. The Lichee Pi 4a has a daughtercard that contains the non-IO bits. In theory, they could release newer, faster versions. They are currently using it to release different form factors. They also use it to offer clustering of multiple SoCs.

 

[beginner99]

Better video deconde would have been nice. With what's listed I'm hesitant to even try it as a video-player as I fear even basic non 100% standard mkv stuff will not play correctly. And then what about HDR, DV and the likes?

 

[soresu]

as I fear even basic non 100% standard mkv stuff will not play correctly

Video HW ASICs follow codec standards, which has nothing to do with container formats like Matroska/MKV or MP4.

If the video file is outside the actual codec standard it is b0rked and not worth keeping beyond comparing early encoder output for standards compliance.

 

[soresu]

And then what about HDR, DV and the likes?

HDR viability is linked to Linux HDR handling code, which at this point should be viable for the basic formats at least.

It was definitely still a problem when RPi4 launched, but I believe at this point in time it is a solved issue.

Plus RPi hardware doesn't have the lossless HDMI audio passthrough problems that many SBCs have with codecs like DTS, DTS HD MA, Dolby Atmos etc.

What is DV exactly?

Is it MPEG-2 TS?

If so even without an MP2 ASIC the 4x A76 cores should manage it fine even at 1080p without overheating.

 

[qmech]

What is DV exactly?

Is it MPEG-2 TS?

If so even without an MP2 ASIC the 4x A76 cores should manage it fine even at 1080p without overheating.

DV could be either a reference to Dolby Vision or the DV / miniDV / HDV family of standards that dominated the mid-90s to early 2000s tape-based video recording. The latter uses intraframe compression only (somewhat similar to a simplified jpeg) and not any mpeg scheme. Providing you can find a codec for them (ffmpeg supports it just fine), it's not very taxing to decode in software and should never really be an issue.

Dolby Vision is the more likely candidate. It's a proprietary format based on HVEC (h265) with a bunch of extra meta-data, so on linux typically handled by libx265. Support on Raspberry Pi is likely going to follow general Linux support.

 

[soresu]

DV could be either a reference to Dolby Vision or the DV / miniDV / HDV family of standards that dominated the mid-90s to early 2000s tape-based video recording. The latter uses intraframe compression only (somewhat similar to a simplified jpeg) and not any mpeg scheme. Providing you can find a codec for them (ffmpeg supports it just fine), it's not very taxing to decode in software and should never really be an issue.

Dolby Vision is the more likely candidate. It's a proprietary format based on HVEC (h265) with a bunch of extra meta-data, so on linux typically handled by libx265. Support on Raspberry Pi is likely going to follow general Linux support.

I think a recent change to ffmpeg now supports Dolby Vision -> HDR10+ conversion, so as long as Linux supports that they should be golden.