What things can Intel, AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft do to make PC desktop better?

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Aug 6, 2014
1,123
0
0
#76
Utter rubbish. 1080p hardware decoding is widespread in mobile SoCs, and 4k decode is starting to appear. The Tegra X1 can handle 4k60 content in hardware decode, others will get the same capabilities.

Media consumption consists of decoding a handful of common codecs- a perfect problem for dedicated hardware. You don't need an 8 core Haswell.
Uh, playing video takes almost no processing power. The original comment was about editing 4k. Beyond that, let me see that mobile junk do some 4k gaming / 3D rendering with some actual textures (you know, something beyond Nintendo 64 textures). Considering that SLI / Crossfire setups with 8 core Haswells struggle to push that level of detail -- all that mobile junk doesn't even get remotely close.
 
Last edited:
Aug 6, 2014
1,123
0
0
#77
Is 4K video editing really your best desktop excuse? :$

Schools and businesses barely buys any desktops here. If they do its rather workstations. All they buy is laptops for the kids/students/workers. The only people left really that buys desktops today is (mainstream/highend) gamers. And retailers often list laptops to desktops in a 5:1 ratio. And those desktops includes iMacs and NUC style PCs.
Which is probably why Europe's economy is doing so well compared to the United States.

Let me give you a hint, it's not: http://money.cnn.com/infographic/news/economy/us-versus-europe-economy/

Yep. Real work is still done on Desktops / Workstations. We don't run our businesses with kiddie toys.
Anyone who has worked in enterprise knows that the failure rate of laptops are usually twice to three times
the level of comparable desktops. Not to mention the fast turnaround of desktop repairs when they do
need servicing (open the ATX case and swap the broken part, fire it back up). Proprietary parts in laptops
make it nearly impossible to repair out in the field.

So yeah -- I guess since you are in Europe = You don't care about downtime. But over here, it matters.
Desktop hardware break down less and are easier to repair -- which is a primary reason why our workers are more
productive than our European counterparts:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/25/eu...ctivity-lag-leadership-managing-mckinsey.html

Desktop's PC may solely be known as Business PC's in the future (it's clear than home users are abandoning
desktops)..... But businesses will continue to buy them simply for durability. Spill coffee on a laptop, and it's
often lights out. Do it to a PC keyboard.... swap the keyboard, desktop is still good to go.
 
Last edited:
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
0
106
#78
Businesses buy laptops because it gives flexibility and the user usually ends up giving more work to the company. Its also used to lower the office cost since people can work from home.

The cost of a laptop is completely insignificant tiny and irrelevant in this relation.

People sitting with desktops today are usually customer service type personel with a high chun rate.

Then you can try change it into some geopolitical nonsense as much as you like. Or keep changing goalposts like you did with 4K video.
 

Denly

Senior member
May 14, 2011
918
22
91
#79
Businesses buy laptops because it gives flexibility and the user usually ends up giving more work to the company. Its also used to lower the office cost since people can work from home.

The cost of a laptop is completely insignificant tiny and irrelevant in this relation.

People sitting with desktops today are usually customer service type personel with a high chun rate.

Then you can try change it into some geopolitical nonsense as much as you like. Or keep changing goalposts like you did with 4K video.
no
 
Aug 6, 2014
1,123
0
0
#80
Businesses buy laptops because it gives flexibility and the user usually ends up giving more work to the company. Its also used to lower the office cost since people can work from home.

The cost of a laptop is completely insignificant tiny and irrelevant in this relation.

People sitting with desktops today are usually customer service type personel with a high chun rate.

Then you can try change it into some geopolitical nonsense as much as you like. Or keep changing goalposts like you did with 4K video.
Quoted for giggles.

Just a massive failure of understanding the big picture.

Virtually every IT manager I've ever worked with avoids laptops as much as they can with their limited budgets because of how many employees drop them. The cost is massively substantial when you start adding up all the downtime for sending them back to repair centers related to broken screens / hinges / keyboards.

Further -- there remains a performance delta between what a high end laptop can do and what a high end desktop can perform (Desktops aren't handicapping performance in consideration of battery life). Lol... Customer service isn't the only home for desktops in the workplace.

And again..... Playing 4k Video and EDITING 4k Video are completely different. Editing takes massively more resources and processing power. No mobile platform can edit 4k yet.
 
Last edited:
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
0
106
#81
You can try give you account manager at your preferred OEM a call and ask him or her what they mostly sell to businesses. Because its not desktops as you think.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
28
106
#82
You can try give you account manager at your preferred OEM a call and ask him or her what they mostly sell to businesses. Because its not desktops as you think.
I think it varies. Most nearby schools I know prefer desktops over laptops because they're more rugged, and schools tend to include large numbers of inquisitive kids who show off in front of their friends, ie, if they bust the keyboard, then all you need to do is plug in a new $5 keyboard sorted in 5mins without having to wait 4 weeks for the notebook repair to come back after a certain OEM that rhymes with "Bell" frantically tries to track down which complete stranger it managed to accidentally return it to...

As for businesses this varies too. Some applications need larger screen sizes (and IPS). Many people complain of glare from glossy screens. Many people who spend all day typing want a proper full size keyboard (and although you can plug a keyboard into a laptop, you often have to push the laptop back further on the desk making a smaller higher dpi screen harder to read at 24-28" vs 18" view distance). Desktops can also adjust the monitor's height without also raising the height of the keyboard. Larger screens further back are better for your eyes than smaller screens closer up for all day typing (reduced eyestrain / migraines, etc, different people have different tolerances). You often look down more on a laptop at 18" with its screen tilted slightly back (greater viewing angle) than a desktop at just below eye level at 2ft, which can increase neck-strain sitting like that all day. It's little things like that you don't think about at purchase time, but learn from experience over the years that ergonomics-aware businesses have figured out can increase or reduce workplace frustration.
 
Last edited:

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,366
359
126
#83
Uh, playing video takes almost no processing power. The original comment was about editing 4k. Beyond that, let me see that mobile junk do some 4k gaming / 3D rendering with some actual textures (you know, something beyond Nintendo 64 textures). Considering that SLI / Crossfire setups with 8 core Haswells struggle to push that level of detail -- all that mobile junk doesn't even get remotely close.
Editing it definitely takes a lot of power, agree wholeheartedly. The post I responded to said "You can't play 4K on mobile", which is just flat out wrong.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,516
8
91
#84
I don't think you really understand the relation of Open Source and Intel here. Perhaps you are too young but Intel was behind the Carrier Grade Linux, a way to introduce Xeon into the datacenter.

Also Intel is the very good citizen in the Open Source, it was the top kernel contributor last year. Here is a list of projects where Intel is involved:

https://01.org/community?qt-projects_aggregated_links=2
Oh, forgot that! So I retire the Linux part. However Apple could be not safe after all.

However we might consider if MS has the whole Intel tech on their side, they can exploit the full potential of Windows and not wasting time on minor x86 competition.

It can be interesting seeing the full power of Windows against the comunity of Linux and Unix
 
Apr 12, 2015
107
0
36
#85
Let's see if I can get us back on track.

In order to make a desktop viable, it has to do more than a mobile device for the masses.

Considering the extreme potential of a desktop, it would need to make 100% of it's advantage useful.

I would see a central unit managing everything in the home.

Automation (more than just lights and aircon)
Entertainment/DVR (every tv, every device can play games or watch high Def video)
NAS (Already exists)
NVR/control for home security/cctv
Cloud storage and virtual workspace over ip.
VR (multi user-multi purpose)

Basically, a smart home with every electronic device centrally controlled by a single tower. My gaming pc has the umph to do this now, and yet it would take months more to configure and tens of thousands more to install vs wireless zwave android cloud bullshit.

Until we find a way to make all that power usable most of the time for most of the people, we are going to see sales drop to SERVICES that are 20x more expensive (over 5 years) and much much harder to customize/ secure.
 
Apr 12, 2015
107
0
36
#87
Don't forget that in many places the power goes out. What do you propose for that?
Not much for it to control in that situation. We can already set a computer to boot when power comes back on.

I can see your point in cases where you need NAS access, but dropbox takes a shit every other week anyway. I suppose mirrored repositories of commonly used files would be better. What serious user has less than 32GB sd storage on their phones?

The mobile devices will still be capable of what they do now, but you're not playing bf4 on your surface without a desktop regardless.
 
Last edited:

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,516
8
91
#88
You can try give you account manager at your preferred OEM a call and ask him or her what they mostly sell to businesses. Because its not desktops as you think.
Neither laptops.
The new trend is using a Xeon with nComputing machines.
 

_kapone

Junior Member
May 11, 2014
2
0
0
#89
In my opinion, THE killer innovation in Desktops will be....a new laptop architecture ... :) Hear me out.

You have Desktops. You have Laptops. Two different things. How to combine them into one? Here's how.

Come up with an architecture where:

- the "desktop" has a second/third/n processor, additional RAM, more powerful video card etc etc, with a "universal dock slot" for a laptop.
- The laptop is outwardly the same, but the internals are different.

When the laptop is on its own, it's well... a laptop. You plug it into this "desktop" and it switches over to "desktop" mode. Seamlessly. No installing separate OSes on these two machines, they share at least one disk, so your data goes with you, and when docked, the laptop display becomes an additional monitor (or the only monitor, if there's no other display).

The point is... convergence and convenience. I want a desktop because it's more powerful. I want a laptop that's mobile. Why can't I have both in a "single" piece of equipment? Why do I need two OSes and transfer files back and forth, can't use the laptop display for desktop use, and if the laptop is too powerful, it's unwieldy (think Dell M6600/6700s). When you need mobility, you simply undock the laptop and walk away. When you need a workhorse, you plug the laptop into that "desktop". Completely seamless.
 
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
36
106
#90
I often wish desktops and laptops would share the same socket:



(PGA lidless laptop chip)

The only difference being the TDP the chip is configured for. This could be done in the BIOS though depending on the device.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,577
317
126
#91
I often wish desktops and laptops would share the same socket:
I think there will be a convergence, but it will be the desktop simply using laptop models as is... except of course without any screen. BTW, Broadwell mobile is only BGA, and I'm assuming it will stay that way in the future.
 
Apr 22, 2012
20,395
0
106
#92
I often wish desktops and laptops would share the same socket.
Laptop and socket doesnt really mix in the long run. They keep wanting thinner and lighter.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,395
0
76
#93
Improve the performance by a disruptive 10-100x. The SW guys will invent stuff to do with it, trust me.
 
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
36
106
#94
Laptop and socket doesnt really mix in the long run. They keep wanting thinner and lighter.
For atom and 4W to 15W Core, BGA works for me.

But for 37W and up (and maybe 28W too) I would love to see PGA (or some other kind of lidless socket) replace LGA 11xx. (Nice benefit is that it would take care of issues with TIM, including TIM possibly drying out over many years)

For The E5/E7 servers/workstations and HEDT desktops, these can stay with LGA (with lid soldered on).
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,426
23
91
#95
Improve the performance by a disruptive 10-100x. The SW guys will invent stuff to do with it, trust me.
We're overdue for a solar EMP. That'll bring your current performance to a zero. I'd like to see EMP-resistant hardware.
 
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
36
106
#96
Laptop and socket doesnt really mix in the long run. They keep wanting thinner and lighter.
For atom and 4W to 15W Core, BGA works for me.

But for 37W and up (and maybe 28W too) I would love to see PGA (or some other kind of lidless socket) replace LGA 11xx. (Nice benefit is that it would take care of issues with TIM, including TIM possibly drying out over many years)

For The E5/E7 servers/workstations and HEDT desktops, these can stay with LGA (with lid soldered on).
For the AMD large iGPU APUs, I would like to see something like this also at work. I am hoping this would also have the benefit of streamlining AMD inventory as well as giving us as consumers more freedom in choosing our processors. (Imagine being able to use a desktop APU in a laptop or a laptop APU in a desktop. This possible due to the laptop or desktop being able to configure TDP)

In fact, Maybe AMD could starting combining laptop and desktop processors in a single lidless socket at the level of AM4/FM3 (or whatever it ends up being called) with the 7th generation APUs? (Excavator quad core with 512sp, DDR4)

With that mentioned, one potential problem I see would be Summit Ridge packaging (which also uses AM4/FM3)? Could AMD use the same lidless design that this proposed 7th generation APUs would have with Summit Ridge? I am thinking it could work, but there would have to be restrictions on the heatsink used since the chips are now naked. (This would mean heavy heatsinks are excluded, with only lightweight aircoolers and AIO liquid coolers allowed). Or maybe AMD could equip Summit Ridge with a lid and then have a cooler design that works only with Summit Ridge? This with the 7th generation APUs (now naked at the level of desktop and laptop) using a different heatsink due to now being naked (aka "lidless").
 
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
36
106
#97
Deleted.

I will start a new thread instead since the topic I originally posted here diverges from desktop. (Sorry, my mistake).
 
Last edited:

maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
223
59
101
#98
Which is probably why Europe's economy is doing so well compared to the United States.

Let me give you a hint, it's not: http://money.cnn.com/infographic/news/economy/us-versus-europe-economy/

Yep. Real work is still done on Desktops / Workstations. We don't run our businesses with kiddie toys.
Anyone who has worked in enterprise knows that the failure rate of laptops are usually twice to three times
the level of comparable desktops. Not to mention the fast turnaround of desktop repairs when they do
need servicing (open the ATX case and swap the broken part, fire it back up). Proprietary parts in laptops
make it nearly impossible to repair out in the field.

So yeah -- I guess since you are in Europe = You don't care about downtime. But over here, it matters.
Desktop hardware break down less and are easier to repair -- which is a primary reason why our workers are more
productive than our European counterparts:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/25/eu...ctivity-lag-leadership-managing-mckinsey.html

Desktop's PC may solely be known as Business PC's in the future (it's clear than home users are abandoning
desktops)..... But businesses will continue to buy them simply for durability. Spill coffee on a laptop, and it's
often lights out. Do it to a PC keyboard.... swap the keyboard, desktop is still good to go.
Dude, im not even from a European country and I am offended by that comment. I think ascribing an entire continents economic performance to a tendency to buy laptops is a little bit of a stretch. Especially when you compare it negatively with the economic basket case that is the USA. Countries like Germany are doing way better economically than the USA and many other countries. You didn't even bother to ask what country he was describing, just referred to 'Europe' as if every country is the same and everyone is lazy and inefficient vs America where everyone is hard working and efficient. Kinda like, me lumping everyone in NA together under the same negative stereotype and saying "maybe if those people from the Americas stopped dealing drugs in cartels they might be able to afford laptops"

Fair enough you know more about the cost of laptops vs desktops than many people, but don't try and make a preference sound like its indicative of a certain cultures superiority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt#/media/File:Government_debt_gdp.jpg
 

ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,055
71
106
Don't forget that in many places the power goes out. What do you propose for that?
Leave the house. Go forage for food. Return when the home server boots up and sends you the all clear SMS and the visit grocery store and pick up...everything SMS. ;-)
 


ASK THE COMMUNITY