What things can Intel, AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft do to make PC desktop better?

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May 11, 2008
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What's the financial motivation to get people to buy desktops?

The desktop PC is dead. Get used to it.
I sure hope the manufacturers will refrain from that thought for a few more years. I really prefer a desktop over a laptop. Only advantage a laptop has over a pc besides being portable is that it is a pc with a built in ups.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
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I have a similar problem on my Venue 11 tablet, the Haswell SoC starts throttling like hell when you load up a game. Best solution I found was actually to use the hard plastic case:



Seems to act as a heatsink and help reduce throttling, bizarrely. Makes it chunkier to hold, but helps with heat problems.
That's interesting. I wouldn't mind having some kind of metal case on my Yoga that would help with drawing some of the heat away. And my lap desk has VERY low speed fans, so I bet it barely helps.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
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I think that as time goes by, the outdated ATX form factor is becoming a bigger and bigger albatross in the PC market. Many power users would like something that offers modularity and upgradeability, but doesn't result in the tremendous waste of space that ATX does. Even Mini-ITX just scales things down without fixing some of the underlying issues (such as poor thermal management and a ginormous PSU).

In my opinion, the 2013 Mac Pro offers a lot of innovative ideas that PC manufacturers would do well to adapt. The unified thermal core is great - imagine something like this in a modular PC form factor, maybe four-sided instead of three. You could have the motherboard/CPU on one face, GPUs on one or two of the others, and the fourth used for hard drives/SSDs or for future expansion. Motherboards could be redesigned to put the RAM slots on the back side (presumably in an angled low-profile form factor) as well as the M.2 slot. With a unified thermal core, GPUs wouldn't need their own heatsinks any more, they would just rely on the one that comes with the case. The entire thing could be cooled with one large fan (something like Silverstone's excellent 180mm offerings) on the bottom, blowing upward through the central heatsink.

The Mac Pro uses components that aren't particularly known for low TDP (LGA 2011 CPUs and two mid-range AMD GCN GPUs) and it can still handle the heat. So a design like this wouldn't need to involve compromises in power or modularity, while it could mean a far smaller physical footprint and less noise.
The new Mac Pro is certainly a very interesting take on super-powerful desktops, but ultimately like most Apple products, it lacks the kind of user upgradeability desktop Windows power-users would want. Such a thermal core design also means alot of fumbling with other components just to change anything. Ultimately, everything has to be compatible with the thermal core as well.

My take on the thermal core would be "detached" and independent heatsinks, but a centralized area of air flow, in a rectangular box like case, with both suction and exhaust fans to maintain high airflow. You could still use PCI-E graphics cards, but with a modified heat management system to take advantage of the high centralized flow.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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Someone doesn't understand what a server OS is.
Writing "multi-user" plus "Server" together is indeed redundant.

Regarding this Home Server idea, What I would like MS to do extend the functionality of the Home based OS, so more users can log on simultaneously in a way that doesn't require a lot of technical know-how. (re: we are at the point where a humble Core i5 (or possibly even something slower) could handle the workload)

How MS does this I don't know? However, With Virtual desktops in Windows 10 I figure they are at least on the way to doing this in some form eventually. Maybe Microsoft could make the multi-user experience something more like their multi-point OS rather than using traditional Virtualization?
 

Be1n

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May 13, 2013
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Scrolling is buttery smooth on a $200 phone, but choppy on an overclocked, high-end PC. Even with a SSD, I feel like I spend more time waiting for my PC than my phone.
I'm not knowledgeable about this, can someone explain why PCs are plagued by jittery interfaces?
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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NV or intel aren't doing anything interesting for the desktop. What they are doing is just the plain old ordinary things.

AMD is doing something though. They have designed innovative form factors like this that are interesting and appealing to consumers:

Wonder what's under the hood as far as CPU?

AMD Announces Project Quantum
by btarunr Tuesday, June 16th 2015 12:51
AMD announced Project Quantum, what it claims to be the most powerful small form-factor gaming PC. About the size of a gaming console, and designed entirely by AMD, using AMD components, this machine packs two AMD "Fiji" graphics processors, with 8 GB of graphics memory, set in CrossFire, and an AMD 64-bit x86 machine. All hot components are liquid-cooled. The desktop will be marketed by AMD AIB partners, and will offer 60 FPS on any game at 4K resolution. Leveraging Windows 10 and DirectX 12, the machine will ship out a little later this year. More details soon.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RdISWkIUmM
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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To Microsoft: Do something big to the current Os or the PC and Tablet market will die.

To Intel: Repeat Conroe or SB story. That's all.

To NVIDIA: Move to ARM. Nvilink won't be the true path and even with that Intel would start to attack with the same way they did to AMD

To AMD : Die please. You are making the worst consoles ever (despite the good sellings)... Enough that they can.be easily emulated with Intel processors!
You are the cáncer of the technology, selling crap at crappy prices. The next Skylake Pentium will trash the 8350 in no time.
 

CHADBOGA

Golden Member
Mar 31, 2009
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NV or intel aren't doing anything interesting for the desktop. What they are doing is just the plain old ordinary things.

AMD is doing something though. They have designed innovative form factors like this that are interesting and appealing to consumers:
What is your evidence that this form factor is appealing to consumers?

How many have they sold?

Has it outsold Nvidia's Shield?
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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What is your evidence that this form factor is appealing to consumers?

How many have they sold?

Has it outsold Nvidia's Shield?
Actually... Nvidia console exist compared to the Phone and Tablet market?

And now... Quantum is no existant... Since it was a vaporware from AMD
 
Oct 10, 1999
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I'm not knowledgeable about this, can someone explain why PCs are plagued by jittery interfaces?
Don't know what the other guy is talking about, but my desktop machine isn't jittery at all, even with a spinning hard disk.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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AMD is doing something though. They have designed innovative form factors like this that are interesting and appealing to consumers:
Yeah, I see droves of people banging at AMD's doors in order to get one.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
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I'm not knowledgeable about this, can someone explain why PCs are plagued by jittery interfaces?
They aren't. I've owned a computer since 1980, ~a year before IBM released the first PC, and I've never seen anything jitter on any of them. I've heard from people who post here on Anandtech (and on other BBS/forums) that could make their video card's output jitter, by overclocking the VRAM or the GPU core too far, but I've never actually seen it happen.
 

Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
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citavia.blog.de
Myocardia, I think there are multiple variants of jitter. So we should first find out, which kind of jitter Be1n actually means. Think about constant fps GUI updates vs. application triggered redraws.
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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That isnt really innovative at all.
It's very innovative. Probably the most innovative reference PC built, and certainly more innovative than anything either NV or intel have ever contributed.
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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What is your evidence that this form factor is appealing to consumers?

How many have they sold?

Has it outsold Nvidia's Shield?
My evidence is the overwhelming positive response Quantum received when it was first announced.

How convenient for you to invoke sales figures when AMD has no plans to produce the device due to not wanting to compete with or be blacklisted by OEMs, and OEMs won't produce the device because they are under orders not to.
And by the way, how do you parse that clown troll's statement above you that consoles sales don't count?

I guess the more relevant question is, what evidence do you have that this form factor isn't[/] appealing?
 
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mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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It's very innovative. Probably the most innovative reference PC built, and certainly more innovative than anything either NV or intel have ever contributed.
What makes it so innovative?
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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What makes it so innovative?
Your intent on these forums are clear, so do yourself a favor and don't respond to me. That way I won't have to waste any time reading your propaganda, or energy ignoring what you write.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Your intent on these forums are clear, so do yourself a favor and don't respond to me. That way I won't have to waste any time reading your propaganda, or energy ignoring what you write.
Isnt that another way of saying that you cant answer it?
 

CHADBOGA

Golden Member
Mar 31, 2009
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My evidence is the overwhelming positive response Quantum received when it was first announced.
What overwhelming positive response?

How convenient for you to invoke sales figures when AMD has no plans to produce the device due to not wanting to compete with or be blacklisted by OEMs, and OEMs won't produce the device because they are under orders not to.
It is so innovative, no one wants to make and sell it.


And by the way, how do you parse that clown troll's statement above you that consoles sales don't count?
Why don't you ask him yourself, I am not responsible for what he writes.

I guess the more relevant question is, what evidence do you have that this form factor isn't[/] appealing?

From what you said, no one is going to try and commercialise it, that is pretty compelling evidence of its appeal, or rather, lack there of.
 

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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Your intent on these forums are clear, so do yourself a favor and don't respond to me. That way I won't have to waste any time reading your propaganda, or energy ignoring what you write.
Got it. You didn't mean anything with your post. Just your usual cheerleading.
 
Mar 27, 2009
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A video from AMD on DX12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1L4iLIU9xU

In part of the presentation it was mentioned the method of rendering could max out 16C CPUs.

If true, then I think so much the more we could benefit from a multi-user OS for home usage (re: there would be a lot of cores idle when the game is not running that could be used for other purposes)

And then MS take the core of the multi-user/multi-point OS and make it the basis for a Xbox Two+ (Xbox One= single user console, Xbox Two+= multi-user console with more powerful hardware than Xbox One)

P.S. Regarding Multi-user for home OS (with possible extended smart home features via IoT, etc), I do think it is very important that MS take precautions to protect our privacy from adware, junkware and other types of surveillance ware.
 

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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What overwhelming positive response?

.......... The one I referred to.

It is so innovative, no one wants to make and sell it.

[b].......... What makes you think nobody [u]wants[/u] to make and sell it? Do you think nobody wanted to make AMD motherboards when they were forced to ship them in plain white boxes?[/b]


Why don't you ask him yourself, I am not responsible for what he writes.

[b].......... Dealing with one troll is enough. [/b]

From what you said, no one is going to try and commercialise it, that is pretty compelling evidence of its appeal, or rather, lack there of.

[b].......... Because I said so? O.......K. :thumbsup: In that case, I also said OEMs won't because they've been incentivized not to. Sounds anti-competitive, but everybody knows that's nothing unusual.[/b] [/quote]

[quote="cbn, post: 37618162"]A video from AMD on DX12:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1L4iLIU9xU[/url]

In part of the presentation it was mentioned the method of rendering could max out 16C CPUs.

If true, then I think so much the more we could benefit from a multi-user OS for home usage (re: there would be a lot of cores idle when the game is not running that could be used for other purposes)

And then MS take the core of the multi-user/multi-point OS and make it the basis for a Xbox Two+ (Xbox One= single user console, Xbox Two+= multi-user console with more powerful hardware than Xbox One)

P.S. Regarding Multi-user for home OS (with possible extended smart home features via IoT, etc), I do think it is very important that MS take precautions to protect our privacy from adware, junkware and other types of surveillance ware.[/QUOTE]

Great video, and DX12/Vulkan are certainly going to have an impact on things going forward. Big thanks to AMD there for innovating yet again and driving the industry forward. I think the big paradigm shift coming that is going to change the way we do everything is VR though. Huge potential there across the board in almost every sector of human activities.
 


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