Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?
:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
Have you read the Koran lately? There is nothing subtle there about dealing with unbelievers. Their call for violence is blatant.
How about the facts that Christianity/Cathalocism are offshoots of judiasm. Judiams was around waaay for before either (and Islam for that mater).
Are you forgetting the fact that Jesus (who Christianity is based on) was Jewish?
I doubt it. Kiling everyone who does not believe what the Mormons do, is not a part of their religion ( I do not belive). Please do not tell me it is not part of Islam. It obviously is.
I don't want to get anyone here riled up but the history of Christianity is only partly about Judaism. If anything, Christianity has just as much influence from the Demotic Egyptian rituals as it does from Judaism. As for Jesus, the situation is more complicated than that. Yes, the historical Jesus was Jewish. But he was killed by Jews on his return trip from Egypt. The mythical Jesus is what most people know today. If you study religions, you'd see that the mythical Jesus is similar to other religious figures, such as the Jewish messiah, the Egyptian seth, Islam's mahdi, and similar figures from the Zorostarian and Buddhist religions.
All major religions have a common source. While the historical can be edited, the mythical cannot.
If you want to understand more, check out Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins and Gerald Massey's Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
What is your current reference to "there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ"? Do you have a news story or reference to back that up?
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
What is your current reference to "there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ"? Do you have a news story or reference to back that up?
Well, not specifically in the name of Christ,(ie: they aren't going in shouting "believe in Christ or die!, but it still plays a part in his or her mind) but I'd say a good example would be skinheads, although they are a bit more broad in who they want to hurt. Off of the top of my head I cannot think of a specific story, but I doubt it would be hard to find one. All you really have to do is find some hate-crime statistics.
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
What is your current reference to "there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ"? Do you have a news story or reference to back that up?
Well, not specifically in the name of Christ,(ie: they aren't going in shouting "believe in Christ or die!, but it still plays a part in his or her mind) but I'd say a good example would be skinheads, although they are a bit more broad in who they want to hurt. Off of the top of my head I cannot think of a specific story, but I doubt it would be hard to find one. All you really have to do is find some hate-crime statistics.
Skinheads are Christians?
If it is so easy, please find one.
That is the point isn't it. Killing apostates(at least the male ones) is a tenet of Islam. Forcing the society that they live in to live under Shari`ah is their goal.
Look at the violence in Indonesia and Nigeria, what is it's basis.
This is a really good point.
Most people who believe Islam as a religion is evil and should be destroyed are thinking of culture, not religion. The Taliban, besides being a tyrannical political entity, were proponents of a culture, a culture which included Islam and used Islam as a justification for many things, but was not actually Islam. If someone wants to destroy warped cultures that are violent and oppressive and may or may not use the Islamic religion as justification, go ahead; but do not say Islam as a religion is evil and should be destroyed.
Skinheads, abortion clinic bombers and Timothy McVeigh are all followers of a bad culture which happens to include strong christianity as part of it exactly the way many terrorists are followers of a bad culture which happens to include strong elements of Islam.
Yosoce
I haven't looked into this as well as I should but I'm in a rush so I'm going to throw it out there. (I'm off on a business trip for a few days.)
Why is there so much violence in the Islam dominated areas of Indonesia? Was there that much violence in the other areas that are not dominated by Islam? How does the violence in say Bali compare to the other regions? Why?
I haven't looked into this as well as I should but I'm in a rush so I'm going to throw it out there. (I'm off on a business trip for a few days.)
Why is there so much violence in the Islam dominated areas of Indonesia? Was there that much violence in the other areas that are not dominated by Islam? How does the violence in say Bali compare to the other regions? Why?
I can't really tell if you're putting Bali in the group "dominated by Islam" or not, but it's not dominated by it. I'm assuming you're thinking it is because of the bombing?
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Vic
No, faith is (by definition) voluntary. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Just don't be surprised if the believers don't like to be around non-believers too much.Originally posted by: etech
Isn't that also a tenet of many religions, seeking to control what people believe in?Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Dari doesn't seem to understand that.Originally posted by: Vic
There's something wrong with Freedom of Religion?:disgust:
Seeking to control what people believe in is the very definition of tyranny.
And certainly there are some individual sects and congregations that are corrupt and seek to control their followers, but that is not an actual tenet of any major religion.
If faith is by definition voluntary that why is it punishable by death to renounce Islam?
Can you name another religion for which apostasy is a capital crime?
While Christianity has grown a bit in a few hundred years, but there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ.
Remember, most of these religions don't call for violence, that's something certain followers decide to add to it. The problem is that many seem to associate the actions of a few with that of 1.2 billion people. I mean, if we had to judge religious groups by the actions of their worst followers; who would be safe?
What is your current reference to "there are still people out there who hurt and kill others for not believing in Christ"? Do you have a news story or reference to back that up?
Well, not specifically in the name of Christ,(ie: they aren't going in shouting "believe in Christ or die!, but it still plays a part in his or her mind) but I'd say a good example would be skinheads, although they are a bit more broad in who they want to hurt. Off of the top of my head I cannot think of a specific story, but I doubt it would be hard to find one. All you really have to do is find some hate-crime statistics.
You cannot equate skinheads with Islamic terrorists and use that to say that there are just as many Christian terrorists as Islamic terrorists. For example, John Muhammad (the WashingtonDC/Maryland/Virginia) sniperwas Muslim but I do not equate him with Islamic terrorists. To me he was just a nut who happened to be Muslim.
Only if you kill in the name of your God will I blame your religion. And because there are so many people out there who are killing in the name of Islam, I hate to admit it but I do have a very poor opinion of that religion.
And Christianity has not been abused by its followers?
The Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the wholesale slaughter of civilizations such as the Aztecs... Even modern ideological oppression over a woman's right to choose, or the right for gays to marry, are all examples of how supposedly enlightened Christians have done immesuarable evil against their fellow man.
Face it, more people have been murdered in the name of God than in the name of all other causes put together.
I can't speak about the Crusades, Inquisition, or Witch Trials (which were very small in the context of Christianity worldwide), however what do you think, that it is better to do away with religions? Is that what you are proposing?
You point out all the bad aspects, but fail to point out the GOOD having a faith is... charities, good to humankind, morals, etc. that religion gives... I'm pro choice personally, and think that gays should be able to marry. I'm not overly religious, but I think that like everything in life, one should maintain a balance. We should not rely solely on religion [or claim to], as fanatics tend to do. The problem is, that Muslim [and to a lesser extent] Christian faiths believe that if you don't believe in their religion you are: inferior, or, in extreme cases, not worthy of life.
Some ppl have said islam is a way of life, but what major religion is not? all are. but not all major world religions preach what Islam and Christianity preach [about being inferior, or not worth of life if you are not of that religion].
Islam was founded by/on a warrior....
Christianity was founded by/on a man of peace.....
You decide what to believe......
I openly and completely denounce anyone who kills in the name of Jesus, because its absolutely wrong.
Sometimes I think that Jesus is the only truely good thing this sad world has ever produced.
:brokenheart:
Christianity was founded by/on a man of peace.....
You decide what to believe......
I openly and completely denounce anyone who kills in the name of Jesus, because its absolutely wrong.
Sometimes I think that Jesus is the only truely good thing this sad world has ever produced.
:brokenheart:
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