Since the days of the mahdi of the Sudan, Islam has been regarded as a renegade religion. Various attempts to control it have come to naught. Continuing that tradition is the war against terrorism. As the world is consolidated and more power comes into the hands of a few via varying unions, the rebels will have less places to run and hide. Eventually, the real fire may be put out but others (imitators and fabricators) may take her place. Will Islam eventually follow Judaism, where it borrows certain aspects of Christianity and becomes wholly Westernized? Will it morph into a new religion? Or will it stay in the trenches, battling against the inevitable. Either way, something must give.
What should we do with Islam?
- Thread starter Dari
- Start date
Judaism is wholly westernized??? HaHaHaHa!! That is just about the most arrogant thing I have ever read.
May I ask what your religious backround is? I was raised in an orthodox Jewish family, but I am not religious.
May I ask what your religious backround is? I was raised in an orthodox Jewish family, but I am not religious.
How exactly are you defining renegade religion? What sect of Islam are you speaking of? Why exactly do you feel Islam needs to be controlled?
You also presuppose an outcome that is not certain.
You also presuppose an outcome that is not certain.
We shouldn't do anything with "Islam." Remember, Islam is 700 - 800 years younger than "Christianity." 700 years ago was not a proud time for the Catholic Church. Islam hasn't had as much time to evolve.
With the kind of weaponry and rapid communications that exist today, it's easier for governments to control large populations. The oppressive governments and other instiutions of authority in the Muslim world deprived its people of so many freedoms and basic means to survive that it's easy to make their people believe that the U.S. is to blame for their problems. I firmly believe that we need to help (well, continue to help) in eliminating the oppressive regimes and terrorist leaders of the Muslim world. Freedom is a basic human instinct. Once freedom is permitted to flourish in the Muslim world, the religion will evolve into a more tolerating and peacefull religion. But this will take a very long time. It has to happen some time. It's beginning to happen. Iraq is on its way to a free society. Iran is facing major unrest from within. Turkey is on its way to become a member of the EU. Saudi Arabia has a very large youth population (60% under 18) that has been partially introduced to western culture, making it perhaps a candidate for change in the future. THe future looks bright. Similar to western culture, the transformation takes a lot of time.
With the kind of weaponry and rapid communications that exist today, it's easier for governments to control large populations. The oppressive governments and other instiutions of authority in the Muslim world deprived its people of so many freedoms and basic means to survive that it's easy to make their people believe that the U.S. is to blame for their problems. I firmly believe that we need to help (well, continue to help) in eliminating the oppressive regimes and terrorist leaders of the Muslim world. Freedom is a basic human instinct. Once freedom is permitted to flourish in the Muslim world, the religion will evolve into a more tolerating and peacefull religion. But this will take a very long time. It has to happen some time. It's beginning to happen. Iraq is on its way to a free society. Iran is facing major unrest from within. Turkey is on its way to become a member of the EU. Saudi Arabia has a very large youth population (60% under 18) that has been partially introduced to western culture, making it perhaps a candidate for change in the future. THe future looks bright. Similar to western culture, the transformation takes a lot of time.
I will give you one example: Heaven and Hell. Before Christianity came along, Jews did not believe in either.
No one said it was. However, since some arabs decided to bring down the Twin Towers in a so-called "holy war," they invited us into the debate about the future of Islam. No matter what, Islam has to change.
A decentralized religion is one that has no caliphate, pope, or other central leader. Islam is renegade in that it's decentralized leaders are pulling away from the norm. Hell, some of the leaders in Saudi Arabia aren't even "muslims." They belong to a much older religion.
We should do nothing with Islam.
I wish we could do something with all the people who live to hate.
I wish we could do something with all the people who live to hate.
ummm, when chrisitanity(a sect of judaism) was born just about every jew beleived in heaven. where do you get the idea jews did not beleive in heaven?
if you have a christian bible, get it out. see the part called "old testament" other than some translational differences, it is the jewish tanach. and has plenty of references to heaven.
you should also be aware many jews are christians they someties call themselves messianic jews, completed jews, and sometimes refer to christianity exactly what it is new covenant judaism.
Heaven as in "heaven and earth"? Or heaven as in "heaven and hell"? Those are two different heavens. But let me make myself clear. Until Christianity came along, Jews did not believe that the good would go to heaven and the bad would go to hell. That was a product of the first Christians, who used heaven and hell as a justifiable meatphor for the sufferings by the hands of the Romans.
theshazman
Golden Member
- Apr 11, 2003
- 1,361
- 0
- 71
Islam doesn't need to change, the people that practice it do. The muslims that attacked us on 9/11 used Islam as an excuse to wage a 'holy war' just a Bush used WMD to wage war in Iraq.
BurnItDwn
Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 26,351
- 1,860
- 126
I am going to express my opiniated opinion. I have nothing against most muslims, however their religion as a whole is pretty twisted IMO. However I have a "western" mind that is corrupted by such things as not starving te death, not opressing people, being tolerant of others, and moshing while listening to grindcore death metal and drinking rum.
Islam needs to change.
1. It should not be part of any government.
2. Human rights need to be observed for all people. (Equal rights for males and females. )
3. In some instances, (though this mostly only applies to the extremists/fanatics) They need to be tolerant of others. (IE, no more jihad or holy war, that notion is completely ridiculus)
4. Any religion that considers mass murderers or Terrorists to be great role models has definatly got to change
5. Look at the state of most Islamic countries. Extremely mega huge unemployment. Tons of poverty. etc, Perhaps if they changed their ways and tried to be more productive in terms of agriculture and industry, their people wouldn't suffer so much.
Then again every religion needs to change in some way shape or form, especially the ones where you can't eat pork.
Islam needs to change.
1. It should not be part of any government.
2. Human rights need to be observed for all people. (Equal rights for males and females. )
3. In some instances, (though this mostly only applies to the extremists/fanatics) They need to be tolerant of others. (IE, no more jihad or holy war, that notion is completely ridiculus)
4. Any religion that considers mass murderers or Terrorists to be great role models has definatly got to change
5. Look at the state of most Islamic countries. Extremely mega huge unemployment. Tons of poverty. etc, Perhaps if they changed their ways and tried to be more productive in terms of agriculture and industry, their people wouldn't suffer so much.
Then again every religion needs to change in some way shape or form, especially the ones where you can't eat pork.
We still don't believe in it. It is up to G_d on where we go once we die. Judaism is a religion that is really concerned with this realm, not a heaven or hell.
You are to ignorant to be a Euroweenie, but i still feel you would feel right at home in France.
Your first comment is essentially racist.
Your second comment is just plan absurd..Christianity arose out of Judaism, Judaim has borrowed NOTHING from Christianity..without Judaism, Christianity WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST.
Dari's been counting polyps again.
Seems to me that G at the fulcrum of the compass is actually a Q. Ought to make you stop and think.
Seems to me that G at the fulcrum of the compass is actually a Q. Ought to make you stop and think.
Dari,
The only thing that you have proven in this thread is that you know very little about Judaism or Islam.
The only thing that you have proven in this thread is that you know very little about Judaism or Islam.
I may know little about either but I sure as hell know more than you. Ask any Jew if they believe in a heaven or hell and the most likely answer will be "yes." As for this thread, it was a question about the future of Islam, considering all the pressure it is currently under. If you don't understand something, just ask.
I'd be very careful there, heartsurgeon. Perhaps it is you who don't know about these two religions. If you're a strong believer, I'd ask you to get out of this thread. Otherwise, I invite you discuss the future of Islam and the history of Christianity and Judaism. Don't think for a second that dominating derivatives can't have an impact on that which they came from. Ever studied Christianity (aside from what's in the Bible)?
i am seriously disturbed that you believe Judiasm has been christianized or even that anything "westernized" means its better
I never said "christianized." I said that Christianity has had some major influences on Judaism, despite what most people think.
Show me some proof of Christianity's influence on Judaism.
And seriously, you should research before you post an ignorant topic like this.
I'd like to think that you believed in freedom of religion as an American citizen, apparently you don't.
And seriously, you should research before you post an ignorant topic like this.
I'd like to think that you believed in freedom of religion as an American citizen, apparently you don't.
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