What is this about Minneapolis "defunding" its PD?

[zzyzxroad]

Yes. I see major problems. I'm not going to proclaim like I know the answers - My main message was simple though: STOP using the word "Defund". You sincerely need mental help if you can't understand why that is a stupid idea.

Thaks, just checking. The term is problematic for sure and you are not alone. No one person has the answer to how to fix our system. About time we have the conversation though.

I know at least some are using that term to signal they dont want to send the same old we will reform message. That this time things will be diffrent so at least their intent was good even if it was stupid.

 

[ondma]

The chief of police just held a news conference today. He vowed to continue to do the work of the police department, but they are trying to break ties with the Police Union and are hiring outside consulting firms to monitor conduct and enforce accountability. Whether this will work or not, nobody knows. I think the Chief is sincere, and honestly desires significant reform. Of course he cannot do it alone, and whether he will be successful remains to be seen. The mayor also came out strongly backing him.

Edit: I am not a fan of Mayor Frey, but I am glad he is strongly supporting the Chief, who I think will do everything he can to see that significant change is made.

Not sure of the ins and outs of who controls the actual funding of the police though, and if the City Council can withhold funding. It also is an uphill job to get control of the unions and the well entrenched protections for officers.

 

[Blackjack200]

Public Service Announcement:

If you intend to re-allocate partial funds from the police department to other means of solving problems (e.g. Instead of cops arresting and booking someone that is high instead taking them to a drug-treatment place) DONT fucking call it "defunding the police"

Defunding means taking every penny of the program. So unless you use pre-text word such as "Partial defunding", it means just that... completely defunding the police and expecting laws to be enforced by no one.

The definition of defund is:

The reason that the term "defund" is used is because it is unambiguous. Defund means just that. The liberal and pundit class that didn't give a shit about police brutality until 1 week ago are now mansplaining that 'defund doesn't actually mean defund', but their contributions are as worthless now as ever.

 

[ondma]

The reason that the term "defund" is used is because it is unambiguous. Defund means just that. The liberal and pundit class that didn't give a shit about police brutality until 1 week ago are now mansplaining that 'defund doesn't actually mean defund', but their contributions are as worthless now as ever.

It is ambiguous, because there are different degrees of "defunding". I hate that term though, because the first thing most people assume is that it means abolish, i.e. 100% defunding. You can defund 10%, 50% or whatever. It is also like throwing red meat to Trump and his base.

A more accurate term would be something like "partially reallocate resources", but of course that does not grab attention like "defund".

 

[Blackjack200]

It is ambiguous, because there are different degrees of "defunding". I hate that term though, because the first thing most people assume is that it means abolish, i.e. 100% defunding. You can defund 10%, 50% or whatever. It is also like throwing red meat to Trump and his base.

A more accurate term would be something like "partially reallocate resources", but of course that does not grab attention like "defund".

The defunding demand is rooted in the long history of police abolition activism. It does not mean 10%, 50%, or whatever. It means 100%. It is not ambiguous.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Prejudice baby. It's freaking awesome.

prejudice is not the same as racism....

It's Time To Understand The Difference Between Racism And Prejudice

Let's talk racism. I'm black, and I'm a woman. I'm a lot of other things, but I live with those two traits with every day. They aren't characteristics I can hide or shy away from. Since this is my first time really delving into a nitty gritty…

www.elitedaily.com

 

[Fenixgoon]

The defunding demand is rooted in the long history of police abolition activism. It does not mean 10%, 50%, or whatever. It means 100%. It is not ambiguous.

Let's suppose for the moment that it is 100%.
Do you know how much community investment that means? Police forces are expensive as hell.
The LAPD annual budget is 1.6B. You could fund a shitton of investment in the worst areas of town with that money - housing, business development, daycares, healthcare, education, job training, etc.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The reason that the term "defund" is used is because it is unambiguous. Defund means just that. The liberal and pundit class that didn't give a shit about police brutality until 1 week ago are now mansplaining that 'defund doesn't actually mean defund', but their contributions are as worthless now as ever.

Wow!! Strong os the ignorance! Blind loyalty to the Repubs......
The Republicans don`t give a damn about the Black people other than when it is time to vote!
The Republicans are the ones who turn a blind eye to police brutality and have the fucking ignorance to say if you don`t want to be abused by a cop then don`t break the law! How totally fucked up is that....don`t answer - we know y6ou don`t give a fuck!

 

[Blackjack200]

Let's suppose for the moment that it is 100%.
Do you know how much community investment that means? Police forces are expensive as hell.
The LAPD annual budget is 1.6B. You could fund a shitton of investment in the worst areas of town with that money - housing, business development, daycares, healthcare, education, job training, etc.

Right, that's part of the argument, resources can be reallocated. The other part of the argument is that police and prisons are fundamentally wrong and should not be part of our society.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Let's suppose for the moment that it is 100%.
Do you know how much community investment that means? Police forces are expensive as hell.
The LAPD annual budget is 1.6B. You could fund a shitton of investment in the worst areas of town with that money - housing, business development, daycares, healthcare, education, job training, etc.

Exactly!! Redistribute a lot of those funds to programs to help and strengthen the community......such as the homeless problem....why in the greatest nation on the face of the earth is there homelessness.....hmmmmm

 

[pauldun170]

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Camden, New Jersey, dissolved its police department and replaced it after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable. Now, seven years later, the city's crime has dropped by close to half.

www.cnn.com

New Police Force From Scratch: N.J. City Proves It's Possible To Reform The Police

NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaks with Scott Thomson, a former chief of police in Camden, N.J., about the city's efforts to build a new police force from scratch.

www.npr.org

Cappelli credits the improvement to new "community-oriented policing," which prizes partnership and problem-solving over violence and punishment.
It starts from an officer's first day: When a new recruit joins the force, they're required to knock on the doors of homes in the neighborhood they're assigned to patrol, he said. They introduce themselves and ask neighbors what needs improving.
Training emphasizes deescalation, he said, and the department's use of force policy makes clear that deadly force is the last option.

As for defunding...
We have run of the mill officers taking home 200K+ a year.
Detectives and Sergeants pulling in 500K a year.
Chiefs close to tappin 700k

This is in a county with a comically low crime rate and departments are filled with a bunch of guys complaining about how their wife is complaining about how the boat in the driveway makes it hard to park the Mercedes.
How do you figure out which house on the block belongs to a cop? Look for the biggest house.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Right, that's part of the argument, resources can be reallocated. The other part of the argument is that police and prisons are fundamentally wrong and should not be part of our society.

No you are not getting it......
For profit prisons are wrong! They give the Police an incentive to fill the prisons instead of protecting and serving....instead they are out to catch even the smallest of offenses and find a way to arrest you!
As was stated earlier......armed Police should not be sent to an intersection where there is a stalled car or to look for a missing dog....Police resources can be better utilized!

 

[HurleyBird]

No you are not getting it......
For profit prisons are wrong! They give the Police an incentive to fill the prisons instead of protecting and serving....instead they are out to catch even the smallest of offenses and find a way to arrest you!

How does that work? I also dislike private prisons, but outside of a few outlier cases I think the big incentive is to look for new charges while perps are already in jail to keep them there for longer as well as fighting early release.

 

[Paratus]

Look for all of you getting hung up on the term “defunding” what if we called it what the GOP does when they defund education, healthcare, mental health, infrastructure, etc - a TAX CUT.

 

[fskimospy]

It is ambiguous, because there are different degrees of "defunding". I hate that term though, because the first thing most people assume is that it means abolish, i.e. 100% defunding. You can defund 10%, 50% or whatever. It is also like throwing red meat to Trump and his base.

A more accurate term would be something like "partially reallocate resources", but of course that does not grab attention like "defund".

Yeah, the definition of ‘defund’ is to withdraw funding from, and that funding can be of $.01 or all of it. The idea it means removing all funding from something is just people struggling to understand basic English.

Definition of DEFUND

to withdraw funding from… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[JEDIYoda]

How does that work? I also dislike private prisons, but outside of a few outlier cases I think the big incentive is to look for new charges while perps are already in jail to keep them there for longer as well as fighting early release.

Profiting Off Prisoners: State Inmates Mean Big Bucks for Local Jails - Ohio Valley ReSource

Despite the mathematical impossibility of continued growth, the report said many county officials, particularly in rural counties, consider increasing jail capacity a solution to budget woes.

ohiovalleyresource.org

This just one example....

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, the definition of ‘defund’ is to withdraw funding from, and that funding can be of $.01 or all of it. The idea it means removing all funding from something is just people struggling to understand basic English.

Definition of DEFUND

to withdraw funding from… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Maybe instead of being a snotty shithead posting dictionary definitions, you could dig into the activist roots of the movement you're pretending to care about, and decide if you agree or disagree with their vision of what needs to be changed and if the police can be reformed or not.

Or, you know, just keep waiving the flag for idiot liberals everywhere.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Profiting Off Prisoners: State Inmates Mean Big Bucks for Local Jails - Ohio Valley ReSource

Despite the mathematical impossibility of continued growth, the report said many county officials, particularly in rural counties, consider increasing jail capacity a solution to budget woes.

ohiovalleyresource.org

This just one example....

13th does a deep dive on this topic. From my reasearch their data is accurate.

 

[Atreus21]

No, not really. Being prejudice means prejudging the individual based on characteristics seen as a common among the group to which the individual belongs. I don't assume the individual black man is a criminal, or even likely to be one, because black men commit a disproportionate amount of crime.

Similarly, I do not assume an individual conservative is a racist just because conservatives on the mean tend to be more racist than others. I personally know conservative individuals IRL who are definitely not racist, so I know better.

Critically, all of these population wide issues have an origin story. Black men may on the whole be more prone to crime because of poverty, racial discrimination, or even because some in the black community glorify street violence through gangsta rap.

Conservatives being racist, or for that matter, anyone being racist, also has an origin story. As I said in another thread, we are taught these things, often by parents and peers. These ideas are viral. We aren't born with them. We may be born with a broad instinct toward tribalism, but defining one's "tribe" along racial lines is more of a social construct.

So if I had said, "The typical demographic of [some group] is 1) black and 2) male. What do we know about black males in general in relation to murder, sexism, general criminality, etc? This comes from parents, peers, etc. Honestly, I don't really know what to do about that."

That wouldn't have been prejudiced?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yeah, the definition of ‘defund’ is to withdraw funding from, and that funding can be of $.01 or all of it. The idea it means removing all funding from something is just people struggling to understand basic English.

Definition of DEFUND

to withdraw funding from… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I put the definition up earlier on the last page. It means to deplete ALL money.

So unless you are pre-phasing that with "partial defunding" - which in of itself is a dumb statement - it means depleting all money. Period.

When republicans said to defund Planned Parenthood did they only meant partial?

 

[Fenixgoon]

So if I had said, "The typical demographic of [some group] is 1) black and 2) male. What do we know about black males in general in relation to murder, sexism, general criminality, etc? This comes from parents, peers, etc. Honestly, I don't really know what to do about that."

That wouldn't have been prejudiced?

That is an observation.
What it doesn't answer is "why does this observation exist?"

asking why actually gets you moving towards the root cause.

 

[fskimospy]

I put the definition up earlier on the last page. It means to deplete ALL money.

So unless you are pre-phasing that with "partial defunding" - which in of itself is a dumb statement - it means depleting all money. Period.

Your argument is with the dictionary, not me. If you read my link you will see it has several very clear examples that show it does not mean to remove all money.

There is no arguing this.

When republicans said to defund Planned Parenthood did they only meant partial?

When people argue that we should stop defunding our public schools are they saying that we appropriate zero funds to them and should stop?

 

[zzyzxroad]

I put the definition up earlier on the last page. It means to deplete ALL money.

So unless you are pre-phasing that with "partial defunding" - which in of itself is a dumb statement - it means depleting all money. Period.

When republicans said to defund Planned Parenthood did they only meant partial?

In a perfect world we could 100% defund law enforcement. Striving to be perfect isn't a bad concept.Trying to be as close to perfect isn't a bad concept.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Even Steven fucking Crowder is reasonable on this point

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

In a perfect world we could 100% defund law enforcement. Striving to be perfect isn't a bad concept.Trying to be as close to perfect isn't a bad concept.

I totally agree....

If we were in a perfect world....

Where we all smoked weed....

And all listened to incredibly moronic John Lennon songs......

Yes, we could live without enforcement.

But thats not the world we live in... and thats not the world we ever will live in for the next 100+ years sadly.