What is this about Minneapolis "defunding" its PD?

[woolfe9998]

Your argument is with the dictionary, not me. If you read my link you will see it has several very clear examples that show it does not mean to remove all money.

There is no arguing this.



When people argue that we should stop defunding our public schools are they saying that we appropriate zero funds to them and should stop?

Regardless of whether its on paper definition permits the application of the word to situations where funding is merely reduced, the word does carry with it the distinct connotation of removing all funding, though. To make matters worse, the word has now several times been used in conjunction with the word "dismantle" as in "defund and dismantle" - making its meaning in context abundantly clear. Then that is the end of the sentence, with nothing else proposed. And even the ones who give extended interviews who are saying they are not getting rid of police any time soon are going into this whole 'Imagine All the People" utopian fantasy where some day we will not need any police, making them sound even more so like morons who are out of touch of the real world.

Yesterday an elderly woman, a conservative friend who usually watches Fox News, but who my wife convinced to view other news sources as well to broaden her horizons, called my wife. She was freaking out. "I read your CNN just today. It says the democrats are planning to get rid of police and that they're talking about doing it everywhere! What are we going to do if someone breaks into our house!" She put it on speaker so I heard the whole thing. My wife spent over a half hour talking her down, explaining that they didn't really mean what they were saying, that they were really talking about reforms which weren't nearly as radical as they made it sound. She couldn't defend what they said. She could only argue that they didn't mean what they said. Fortunately, the woman respects my wife, and seemed to calm down anyway.

This messaging is an extreme form of political malfeasance. There is a reason Biden was so quick to go on TV and say he wasn't for defunding police. Because he isn't an idiot.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Regardless of whether its on paper definition permits the application of the word to situations where funding is merely reduced, the word does carry with it the distinct connotation of removing all funding, though. To make matters worse, the word has now several times been used in conjunction with the word "dismantle" as in "defund and dismantle" - making its meaning in context abundantly clear. Then that is the end of the sentence, with nothing else proposed. And even the ones who give extended interviews who are saying they are not getting rid of police any time soon are going into this whole 'Imagine All the People" utopian fantasy where some day we will not need any police, making them sound even more so like morons who are out of touch of the real world.

Yesterday an elderly woman, a conservative friend who usually watches Fox News, but who my wife convinced to view other news sources as well to broaden her horizons, called my wife. She was freaking out. "I read your CNN just today. It says the democrats are planning to get rid of police and that they're talking about doing it everywhere! What are we going to do if someone breaks into our house!" She put it on speaker so I heard the whole thing. My wife spent over a half hour talking her down, explaining that they didn't really mean what they were saying, that they were really talking about reforms which weren't nearly as radical as they made it sound. She couldn't defend what they said. She could only argue that they didn't mean what they said. Fortunately, the woman respects my wife, and seemed to calm down anyway.

This messaging is an extreme form of political malfeasance. There is a reason Biden was so quick to go on TV and say he wasn't for defunding police. Because he isn't an idiot.

ding ding ding...

Your wife (and you) aren't politically moronic.

Defunding - literally means depleting of all funds. This is without question. This can't be argued.

Doing so leads to misinformation and misinformed US citizens. This is not good. Stop being stupid. This has been a public service announcement.

 

[fskimospy]

ding ding ding...

Your wife (and you) aren't politically moronic.

Defunding - literally means depleting of all funds. This is without question. This can't be argued.

Doing so leads to misinformation and misinformed US citizens. This is not good. Stop being stupid. This has been a public service announcement.

It’s weird that you keep arguing this even after the dictionary proved you wrong.

I agree it can’t be argued, yet you keep going, haha.

 

[fskimospy]

Regardless of whether its on paper definition permits the application of the word to situations where funding is merely reduced, the word does carry with it the distinct connotation of removing all funding, though. To make matters worse, the word has now several times been used in conjunction with the word "dismantle" as in "defund and dismantle" - making its meaning in context abundantly clear. Then that is the end of the sentence, with nothing else proposed. And even the ones who give extended interviews who are saying they are not getting rid of police any time soon are going into this whole 'Imagine All the People" utopian fantasy where some day we will not need any police, making them sound even more so like morons who are out of touch of the real world.

Yesterday an elderly woman, a conservative friend who usually watches Fox News, but who my wife convinced to view other news sources as well to broaden her horizons, called my wife. She was freaking out. "I read your CNN just today. It says the democrats are planning to get rid of police and that they're talking about doing it everywhere! What are we going to do if someone breaks into our house!" She put it on speaker so I heard the whole thing. My wife spent over a half hour talking her down, explaining that they didn't really mean what they were saying, that they were really talking about reforms which weren't nearly as radical as they made it sound. She couldn't defend what they said. She could only argue that they didn't mean what they said. Fortunately, the woman respects my wife, and seemed to calm down anyway.

This messaging is an extreme form of political malfeasance. There is a reason Biden was so quick to go on TV and say he wasn't for defunding police. Because he isn't an idiot.

I mean as I said I agree it’s not good messaging precisely because dumb and/or dishonest people will take it the wrong way. That doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t getting rid of the police.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It’s weird that you keep arguing this even after the dictionary proved you wrong.

I agree it can’t be argued, yet you keep going, haha.

I cited the dictionary myself. You are wrong. Try again silly boy.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I totally agree....

If we were in a perfect world....

Where we all smoked weed....

And all listened to incredibly moronic John Lennon songs......

Yes, we could live without enforcement.

But thats not the world we live in... and thats not the world we ever will live in for the next 100+ years sadly.

Well aware. My point is just that striving for perfection isn't a bad thing. And that's coming form someone that doent care for smoking weed and not a Lennon fan.

 

[fskimospy]

I cited the dictionary myself. You are wrong. Try again silly boy.

So to be clear your argument is Merriam-Webster is wrong and you are right? Just want to make sure I have your position correct.

Here’s an example given by the Merriam-Webster dictionary of correct usage in a sentence:

Higher education has been defunded by state to the point where not having courses flat leaves them out of business.
— oregonlive, "Canzano: Pac-12 vs. Pac-12 in football is a hopeful development," 12 May 2020

Is your argument that the state now provides zero funding to state universities or is your argument that the dictionary is wrong?

Alternatively you could just admit you got it wrong. I sincerely doubt you will do this, haha.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Instead of "defunding" police, how about "rein in" or "Reform the police", "rebuild the police" and maybe "demilitarize the police". much better framing.

Trump will use his usual dishonesty with the framing of "defunding" to scare law abiding citizens into voting for him. As woolfe said, there is a reason Biden said what he said.

Some suggestions...

1. Create civilian review boards with real power including the abilities to compel testimony and to fire police who have abused the public or violated the law .

2. Lying on a report or under oath should be grounds for automatic dismissal from any police force. A culture of lying breeds a culture of abuse.

3. Mandatory police body camera systems. With strong penalties for officers whose body cameras "go out" in suspicious circumstances.

4. Legalization of recording police on duty.

5. Eliminating RICO laws and other programs which link profits with law enforcement.

 

[woolfe9998]

I mean as I said I agree it’s not good messaging precisely because dumb and/or dishonest people will take it the wrong way. That doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t getting rid of the police.

Yeah, I don't think it's only dumb or dishonest people though. When you say "we're going to defund and dismantle our police department" full stop, many people of largely ordinary intelligence with middling education in American politics, i.e. those who read the newspapers and are essentially working class, are likely to be confused. Do not mistake your sophistication in politics with that of the average or typical person.

 

[woolfe9998]

Instead of "defunding" police, how about "rein in" or "Reform the police", "rebuild the police" and maybe "demilitarize the police". much better framing.

Trump will use his usual dishonesty with the framing of "defunding" to scare law abiding citizens into voting for him. As woolfe said, there is a reason Biden said whet he said.

Some suggestions...

1. Create civilian review boards with real power including the abilities to compel testimony and to fire police who have abused the public or violated the law .

2. Lying on a report or under oath should be grounds for automatic dismissal from any police force. A culture of lying breeds a culture of abuse.

3. Mandatory police body camera systems. With strong penalties for officers whose body cameras "go out" in suspicious circumstances.

6. Legalization of recording police on duty.

7. Eliminating RICO laws and other programs which link profits with law enforcement.

All of those are good. Or, if what you really mean is to reduce funding, you can always just say, drumroll please "we are going to reduce funding for police and redirect some funds into more producitve uses." Say what you mean. Don't use a word with stronger connotations or you're going to leave lots of people confused and/or angry.

I have my own laundry list of things which may help, both large and small. Here's one: legalize marijuana. Not only does it keep the police out of neighborhoods by removing it as an excuse to harass citizens who are just getting high, but it does something else. The cops love to use "I smelled marijuana" as an excuse to conduct searches which they would not otherwise be entitled to do. It's a great excuse because who can ever say some time later whether there really was a smell of marijuana or not? Well guess what, legalize it, and "I smelled marijuana" doesn't give probable cause for a search anymore. Their favorite excuse, poof, gone.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I totally agree....

If we were in a perfect world....

Where we all smoked weed....

And all listened to incredibly moronic John Lennon songs......

Yes, we could live without enforcement.

But thats not the world we live in... and thats not the world we ever will live in for the next 100+ years sadly.

Beans me up Scotty! There is no intelligent life down here!

 

[brandonbull]

Camden, NJ was successful in defunding and rebuilding their police department. At the time CPD had a horrible reputation.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

So they busted a union, moved the police work to a larger organization, and still has an amazingly high rate of crime. If you double your police force, you would think that crime rates should go down.

 

[Muse]

At first blush defunding police departments looks like a strange and maybe unsupportable proposition. But on closer inspection it makes all kinds of sense if you think of it as a transition from draconian, fascistic control and exploitation of the public to more progressive, sympathetic, compassionate ways of dealing with societal problems. There needs to be a great deal more mental health advocacy, social work, emphasis on education and real rehabilitation. So, a shift in priorities. A pocket phrase is defunding PDs, but in reality there's a lot more to it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So they busted a union, moved the police work to a larger organization, and still has an amazingly high rate of crime. If you double your police force, you would think that crime rates should go down.

Why do you lie?? Did you even read the article?
No where in that article does it say anything that you are spouting!!
In fact none of the shit you spout is in that article...
In the article it says they doubled their police force but it says noything as you think it says abouit the crime rate!!

 

[Muse]

What's so hard to understand that the police does require a complete dismantling and rebuilding from the ground up with new training procedures, the amount of training cadets receive, the type of training cadets receive? Also, complete oversight on police actions and a major reduction in police funding so they're not like the military?

I met a guy, part African American, i.e. "black." He's smart, young, getting his bearings in life. This was in the gym. At one point he was in a program to join the Oakland Police Department. I asked him about it one day and he told me he dropped out of the training. Their instructor was telling them to use violent and demeaning tactics. He actually told them to grab blacks by their dreadlocks. When the trainers want to you be a monster what are you to think?

 

[zzyzxroad]

Why do you lie?? Did you even read the article?
No where in that article does it say anything that you are spouting!!
In fact none of the shit you spout is in that article...
In the article it says they doubled their police force but it says noything as you think it says abouit the crime rate!!

Some folks use critical thinking skills others soak up propaganda.

 

[Muse]

Maybe they are going to issue squirt guns.

Oscar Grant was shot in the back (killing him) by a public transit officer on New Years Eve. He had a taser, I think the defense was that he'd reached for his taser but used the gun. I'm opposed to all kinds of guns.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Oscar Grant was shot in the back by a public transit officer on New Years Eve. He had a taser, I think the defense was that he'd reached for his taser but used the gun. I'm opposed to all kinds of guns.

I totally agree!

 

[Puffnstuff]

I like Joe's police plan.

 

[shortylickens]

You bitches fighting about the dictionary means you dont actually give a fuck about America. It means you just wanna win an argument. And since its on the internet with strangers it means you are too lazy or cowardly to have this argument face to face with a person who might punch you.

 

[1prophet]

prejudice is not the same as racism....

It's Time To Understand The Difference Between Racism And Prejudice

Let's talk racism. I'm black, and I'm a woman. I'm a lot of other things, but I live with those two traits with every day. They aren't characteristics I can hide or shy away from. Since this is my first time really delving into a nitty gritty…

www.elitedaily.com

And just like the anti-smoking campaigns and subsequent lawsuits during the Joe Camel days they refuse to attack the people behind institutional racism and their works.

You want to fix institutionalized racism identify the architects and their works behind it and destroy or alter what they have created, unfortunately it will hit rich woke liberals just as hard if not harder than the conservative Trump types democrats are made to believe are below them.

Here is one of the main architects of institutionalized racism.

The True Measure of Robert Moses (and His Racist Bridges)

The story: Robert Moses ordered engineers to build the Southern State Parkway’s bridges extra-low, to prevent poor people in buses from using the highway. The truth? It’s a little more complex.

www.citylab.com

 

[Blackjack200]

Instead of "defunding" police, how about "rein in" or "Reform the police", "rebuild the police" and maybe "demilitarize the police". much better framing.

Hmm, maybe because they've been trying to reform the police for 30 years and it's never worked? Could that be why no one wants reform anymore?

 

[zzyzxroad]

And just like the anti-smoking campaigns and subsequent lawsuits during the Joe Camel days they refuse to attack the people behind institutional racism and their works.

You want to fix institutionalized racism identify the architects and their works behind it and destroy or alter what they have created, unfortunately it will hit rich woke liberals just as hard if not harder than the conservative Trump types democrats are made to believe are below them.

Here is one of the main architects of institutionalized racism.

The True Measure of Robert Moses (and His Racist Bridges)

The story: Robert Moses ordered engineers to build the Southern State Parkway’s bridges extra-low, to prevent poor people in buses from using the highway. The truth? It’s a little more complex.

www.citylab.com

I don't want to shit on your point because it is true there is blame on both sides of the aisle but your main architec was a republican.

Why not use nixon as a more impactful and recent example, although also a republican.

 

[HomerJS]

How do the so called bad 1% of bad cops manage to be so active??

Louisville police release the Breonna Taylor incident report. It's nearly blank

Nearly three months after police fatally shot Breonna Taylor, the department released the incident report. It is almost entirely blank.

www.yahoo.com

 

[zzyzxroad]

How do the so called bad 1% of bad cops manage to be so active??

Louisville police release the Breonna Taylor incident report. It's nearly blank

Nearly three months after police fatally shot Breonna Taylor, the department released the incident report. It is almost entirely blank.

www.yahoo.com

Yeah this whole case is more proof the system is off the rails. We openly approved a war on our own citizens.