What is the point of VTEC on an automatic?

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Thegonagle Oh, so much mis-understanding about VTec. And I don't care any more. Suffice to say, because it's akin to having two camshafts to switch between on the fly, they can tune one for good low-end torque and/or efficiency, and one for maximum performance. That's why the V-Tec versions can have more high-end horsepower plus better low-end torque, yet give up nothing in the way of fuel efficiency as opposed to the standard versions. People who really understand engines and see in their heads how V-Tec works are able to appreciate what a fvcking ingenious system it really is, even compared to other VVT systems. (Ever heard of someone swapping the camshaft for one with different performance characteristics? That's what V-Tec does automatically as you drive.)

You mean cam lobes don't you, not the shaft?

No, he meant the shaft (the lobes are machined with the shaft, you can't really "swap" the lobes, but you can grind it), and people do swap out cams for higher performance cams. They do gain performance when doing so, but gives up fuel economy. VTEC would give you that performance at certain RPM range, and also give you better fuel economy when it's not utilized, so it's almost like swapping out cams on the fly, if you can imagine that.

No, I totally understand. Just wasn't sure of the terminology. But now that I actually think about it, yea the lobes are part of the cam shaft.
Big Duh on my part. Just woke up.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Effective or not, it's all marketing jargon aimed at asians. I don't mean to stereotype, but back when I used to streetrace, whenever we went over and talked to anyone in the largely asian import crowd, they always went nuts over the term "VTEC". VTEC this, VTEC that.. "I got VTEC" and "my Civic can blow away your Mustang, cause I got VTEC" and other stupid nonsense..

Advertising the car as having VTEC will help drive sales, whether or not the feature actually provides tangible benefit.

It does help the upper end, but not by that much.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: NokiaDude
Have you ever driven a 3.5L 2004 Honda Odyssey? With the VTEC they're a BLAST to drive!! Put the pedal to the metal and the engine absolutely ROARS as it zips by 4.5k RPMs and almost redlines! Instant 245HP when VTEC engages! It's amazing for a minivan, you have to test drive a friend's!!! That's why I love our Odyssey, its THE 'muscle car" of minivans.

I concur. Driving the "family minivan" isn't a bad thing when you can effortlessly hose the majority of ricers on the road with a full carload.

- M4H

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Effective or not, it's all marketing jargon aimed at asians. I don't mean to stereotype, but back when I used to streetrace, whenever we went over and talked to anyone in the largely asian import crowd, they always went nuts over the term "VTEC". VTEC this, VTEC that.. "I got VTEC" and "my Civic can blow away your Mustang, cause I got VTEC" and other stupid nonsense..

Advertising the car as having VTEC will help drive sales, whether or not the feature actually provides tangible benefit.

It does help the upper end, but not by that much.

Depends on the engine. If you look at dyno charts for a H22, you can see just how much effect VTEC has. http://www.importreview.com/d_2.2.html It turns the engine from being fairly "average" to just flat out flying. Gotta love that! Same thing with the F20C btw (S2000 engine).

EDIT: Forgot to add that in most of the dynos VTEC engages about 5000-5200 rpm. Other charts may vary depending on how the engine was tuned.

 

[thomsbrain]

my auto honda goes to the redline.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Thegonagle Oh, so much mis-understanding about VTec. And I don't care any more. Suffice to say, because it's akin to having two camshafts to switch between on the fly, they can tune one for good low-end torque and/or efficiency, and one for maximum performance. That's why the V-Tec versions can have more high-end horsepower plus better low-end torque, yet give up nothing in the way of fuel efficiency as opposed to the standard versions. People who really understand engines and see in their heads how V-Tec works are able to appreciate what a fvcking ingenious system it really is, even compared to other VVT systems. (Ever heard of someone swapping the camshaft for one with different performance characteristics? That's what V-Tec does automatically as you drive.)

You mean cam lobes don't you, not the shaft?

No, he meant the shaft (the lobes are machined with the shaft, you can't really "swap" the lobes, but you can grind it), and people do swap out cams for higher performance cams. They do gain performance when doing so, but gives up fuel economy. VTEC would give you that performance at certain RPM range, and also give you better fuel economy when it's not utilized, so it's almost like swapping out cams on the fly, if you can imagine that.

Eh, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "cam profile" than "camshaft"? It's not as though you're actually changing the cam(s) for another type of cam, just the lift and duration at certain RPMs. There's nothing special about Honda's VVT system, especially not compared to say BMW. BMW's Vanos system beats the pants off of VTEC, i-VTEC, or any other "TEC" Honda wants to come up with, period.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3Eh, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "cam profile" than "camshaft"? It's not as though you're actually changing the cam(s) for another type of cam, just the lift and duration at certain RPMs. There's nothing special about Honda's VVT system, especially not compared to say BMW. BMW's Vanos system beats the pants off of VTEC, i-VTEC, or any other "TEC" Honda wants to come up with, period.

While that might be the case, Honda implements VTEC on vehicles under $20k. I don't seem any BMWs with VANOS anywhere near that. Furthermore, Honda first put VTEC into a car back in the late 80's (Japanese market Civic). That engine, B16A, had 160 hp from a 1.6L. Not too shabby at all back in '89.

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3Eh, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "cam profile" than "camshaft"? It's not as though you're actually changing the cam(s) for another type of cam, just the lift and duration at certain RPMs. There's nothing special about Honda's VVT system, especially not compared to say BMW. BMW's Vanos system beats the pants off of VTEC, i-VTEC, or any other "TEC" Honda wants to come up with, period.

While that might be the case, Honda implements VTEC on vehicles under $20k. I don't seem any BMWs with VANOS anywhere near that. Furthermore, Honda first put VTEC into a car back in the late 80's (Japanese market Civic). That engine, B16A, had 160 hp from a 1.6L. Not too shabby at all back in '89.

I'm well aware of the history of VTEC and how all the riceboys worship it as their god. As usual, when discussing performance and performance only with a ricer, you have to bring up the age old arguments of "HP per liter" and price. No one said anything about price... If you want to stay in the same price range, fine. Toyota's VVTLi is every bit as good as VTEC, and the numbers prove it. Same HP per Liter as Honda engines in the same class, so how is VTEC or i-VTEC any better? Fuel economy? I don't buy sports cars for fuel economy and anyone that does is a fool

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3Eh, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "cam profile" than "camshaft"? It's not as though you're actually changing the cam(s) for another type of cam, just the lift and duration at certain RPMs. There's nothing special about Honda's VVT system, especially not compared to say BMW. BMW's Vanos system beats the pants off of VTEC, i-VTEC, or any other "TEC" Honda wants to come up with, period.

While that might be the case, Honda implements VTEC on vehicles under $20k. I don't seem any BMWs with VANOS anywhere near that. Furthermore, Honda first put VTEC into a car back in the late 80's (Japanese market Civic). That engine, B16A, had 160 hp from a 1.6L. Not too shabby at all back in '89.

I'm well aware of the history of VTEC and how all the riceboys worship it as their god. As usual, when discussing performance and performance only with a ricer, you have to bring up the age old arguments of "HP per liter" and price. No one said anything about price... If you want to stay in the same price range, fine. Toyota's VVTLi is every bit as good as VTEC, and the numbers prove it. Same HP per Liter as Honda engines in the same class, so how is VTEC or i-VTEC any better? Fuel economy? I don't buy sports cars for fuel economy and anyone that does is a fool

If you'll notice, I first agreed that VANOS is superior to VTEC. I never argued VTEC was better, only that you can't expect a system as complex as VANOS on such inexpensive cars. For fuel economy issues, check out VTEC-E and get back to me Tho, that's hardly for high performance. Call me a ricer if you will; doesn't really phase me

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3Eh, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "cam profile" than "camshaft"? It's not as though you're actually changing the cam(s) for another type of cam, just the lift and duration at certain RPMs. There's nothing special about Honda's VVT system, especially not compared to say BMW. BMW's Vanos system beats the pants off of VTEC, i-VTEC, or any other "TEC" Honda wants to come up with, period.

While that might be the case, Honda implements VTEC on vehicles under $20k. I don't seem any BMWs with VANOS anywhere near that. Furthermore, Honda first put VTEC into a car back in the late 80's (Japanese market Civic). That engine, B16A, had 160 hp from a 1.6L. Not too shabby at all back in '89.

I'm well aware of the history of VTEC and how all the riceboys worship it as their god. As usual, when discussing performance and performance only with a ricer, you have to bring up the age old arguments of "HP per liter" and price. No one said anything about price... If you want to stay in the same price range, fine. Toyota's VVTLi is every bit as good as VTEC, and the numbers prove it. Same HP per Liter as Honda engines in the same class, so how is VTEC or i-VTEC any better? Fuel economy? I don't buy sports cars for fuel economy and anyone that does is a fool

If you'll notice, I first agreed that VANOS is superior to VTEC. I never argued VTEC was better, only that you can't expect a system as complex as VANOS on such inexpensive cars. For fuel economy issues, check out VTEC-E and get back to me Tho, that's hardly for high performance. Call me a ricer if you will; doesn't really phase me

Now that I think about it, BMW did announce plans to implement a form of Vanos on their "inexpensive" line of cars not too long ago... Where's NFS4 when ya need him?
Why do you keep bringing up fuel economy??!!!??oneoneoneone!!!!1111

 

[NutBucket]

I thought you were? I never made mention to it in my original post. And, "a form". That could mean anything

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
I thought you were? I never made mention to it in my original post. And, "a form". That could mean anything

I only mentioned it *as a question*
You're right about "a form" though, that's why I said "where's NFS4 when ya need him?"

 

[LAUST]

My Automatic shifts at Redline

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: geno

Why the fvck would you buy a lightning with an automatic is the real question. :disgust:

There's no such thing as a standard Lightning you dolt

hehe...Lightning dolt...heheh

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: LAUST
My Automatic shifts at Redline, it's much better to know what you are talking about before making a thread dedicated to showing what you don't know

ROFLES! B-but, nobody on this forum does that
And, as I stated earlier, not only does my auto shift at redline (7k), I can get it to shift well beyond redline (I've shifted @ 8500 before)

 

[LAUST]

They don't have that high of a stall converter, I have raced plenty of Lightnings that floor it right off the line.

 

[LAUST]

Because Auto's are faster in trucks since they don't have a huge throw and a long clutch, also the A4OD is stronger

 

[NutBucket]

Wait, Ford still uses T-5's? Man, my friend is in the process of destroying the one he swapped into his Mustang. Its a shame he had to get rid of the top-loader (need 5th gear for freeway driving).

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Why the fvck would you buy a lightning with an automatic is the real question. :disgust:

Because Auto's are faster in trucks since they don't have a huge throw and a long clutch, also the A4OD is stronger thent he T5, not only that but auto's are also better in force inducted vehicles since the shift is so fast they don't lose any boost.

Again, EDU-BA-CATION don't just think because your ricer friend told you at your taco bell hangout that manuals are the end all be all of tranny's. List some pro's and con's like you should with everything in your life and it will help you get out of your mom's basement someday too

I love my auto Full boost whenever I'm @ WOT is a great thing
Never lift to shift baby!
Besides that, the fastest vehicles in the world are automatics. I'd hate to have to shift through 6 or 7 gears going down the track in less than 5 seconds

 

[LAUST]

Here I am agreeing with you again

 

[Flyermax2k3]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: LAUST
My Automatic shifts at Redline, it's much better to know what you are talking about before making a thread dedicated to showing what you don't know

ROFLES! B-but, nobody on this forum does that
And, as I stated earlier, not only does my auto shift at redline (7k), I can get it to shift well beyond redline (I've shifted @ 8500 before)

LOL, exactly, my stock redline is 5800 and my rev limiter is 6000, but strangly enough now my truck shifts at 6000RPM and my rev limiter is at 6400.

Isn't it nice to experience things in life instead first hand of just being limited to what a friend that you think knows anything said

Here I am agreeing with you again

Oh noes! It's like we're stuck in some weird other-worldly dimension :Q Quick! Get back to the real world where we can disagree with each other all the time!

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Why the fvck would you buy a lightning with an automatic is the real question. :disgust:

Because Auto's are faster in trucks since they don't have a huge throw and a long clutch, also the A4OD is stronger thent he T5, not only that but auto's are also better in force inducted vehicles since the shift is so fast they don't lose any boost.

Again, EDU-BA-CATION don't just think because your ricer friend told you at your taco bell hangout that manuals are the end all be all of tranny's. List some pro's and con's like you should with everything in your life and it will help you get out of your mom's basement someday too

Not to mention that there's no such thing as a manual Lightning (well, stock from Ford anyways)

 

[LAUST]

yah Tremec 5, good tranny in a stock vehicle.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3

Originally posted by: LAUST

Why the fvck would you buy a lightning with an automatic is the real question. :disgust:

Because Auto's are faster in trucks since they don't have a huge throw and a long clutch, also the A4OD is stronger thent he T5, not only that but auto's are also better in force inducted vehicles since the shift is so fast they don't lose any boost.

Again, EDU-BA-CATION don't just think because your ricer friend told you at your taco bell hangout that manuals are the end all be all of tranny's. List some pro's and con's like you should with everything in your life and it will help you get out of your mom's basement someday too

I love my auto Full boost whenever I'm @ WOT is a great thing
Never lift to shift baby!
Besides that, the fastest vehicles in the world are automatics. I'd hate to have to shift through 6 or 7 gears going down the track in less than 5 seconds

I believe that the top Fuel dragsters, i.e., fastest in the world, have only 1 gear.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Originally posted by: NutBucket
Wait, Ford still uses T-5's? Man, my friend is in the process of destroying the one he swapped into his Mustang. Its a shame he had to get rid of the top-loader (need 5th gear for freeway driving).

yah Tremec 5, good tranny in a stock vehicle.

My buddy put a TKO in his Cobra as the stock T5 couldn't handle the D1

Its too bad we really don't know what's been done to his 302. He bought the car used but the thing has had some work done to it. I can't see it being that wild tho since he manages about 15.2 or so (lots of wheelspin). This is a '65 fastback.