I feel a big problem is that most of the question we're getting are coming from beginners. You can't exactly throw them into Arnold's bodybuilding routine and expect them to understand how it all fits together. I picked up SS 6 months ago, thanks to a serious infection I started over about a month ago. I'll probably keep it up with a few of the extra exercises he recommends for another 4 months. I'm lucky that I started weight lifting 5 years ago, it gives me a good sense of my body. But I am still searching for that solid foundation so I can start shaping my body. (still deciding between powerlifting and bodybuilding)
I feel a big problem is that most of the question we're getting are coming from beginners. You can't exactly throw them into Arnold's bodybuilding routine and expect them to understand how it all fits together. I picked up SS 6 months ago, thanks to a serious infection I started over about a month ago. I'll probably keep it up with a few of the extra exercises he recommends for another 4 months. I'm lucky that I started weight lifting 5 years ago, it gives me a good sense of my body. But I am still searching for that solid foundation so I can start shaping my body. (still deciding between powerlifting and bodybuilding)
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Yes, I'm beginning to understand the workout social world a little better now. I can see why SS is pushed so much - it's an easy program to offload noobs like me into in order to get the basics down. It's not the only way, but it is a very good way and has a very good step-by-step instruction guide to make sure you're doing it right and have a plan to follow.
I think one of the points of confusion is goals. There was some pushback from quite a few members of this forum here in my thread from my original question. Now that I understand things better, I think I see the problem - some people associate Starting Strength and strength training with all other forms of exercise and workout routines. While it's definitely a good basis, it's not the only answer and is not even required for certain goals. As was mentioned earlier, you don't necessarily have to do SS if you want to get into BodyBuilding, because you can have a good physique, but not be a very strong person, i.e. all looks and nothing under the hood. The bottom line is, I think some of the members here were getting their interest in powerlifting (or whatever else strength training is known as) confused as the only goal worth pursuing, when in fact there are more which are just as valid - there's bodybuilding, there's team sports, there's endurance sports, and so on. Not all require SS, although SS definitely seems to be a good foundation or addition to any personal fitness program.
After thinking about it, I have clarified my goals: I do want to improve my strength somewhat, but not to the point where it becomes, for lack of a better word, a hobby. I definitely prefer the Arnold look over the Powerlifter look. Honestly, I don't really care about being "strong" in the sense that I can lift hundreds and hundreds of pounds. I'm already strong enough for all of the activities that I do, so that's not a very motivating factor for me.
It is evident that you can choose your physique (based on your genetics, of course) by doing the research and then putting in the time and effort to make it happen. JamerJay (the guy I linked to earlier) was pretty big before and changed his body into a more lean shape instead. I've seen this happen to other people too - you can set goals to be toned, to be leaned, to be muscular, to be huge, whatever. I like the lean-muscular look and I don't want to become a powerlifter hobbyist, so I'll start reading up more on the various workout routines that people do in order to get that way.
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Hah, good point
My plan is starting to shape up! (no pun intended) What do you guys think of this track?
1. Lose fat
2. Starting Strength
3. Body Building
4. Maintainence
I'm currently in the fat-loss stage where I am working on cutting excess blubber. Once I am done with that, the next logical steps seems to be pursuing Starting Strength until I have mastered the basics, and then going on to a Body Building routine that will give me the physique I am looking for. Once there, it's a simple matter of maintenance through diet and a good workout routine.
I am getting pretty good at following a routine, provided I nail it down to daily, specific tasks. I can follow clear instructions pretty well, which is why creating goals like these are important to me. Diet is definitely not a problem; my next big task is to read through Starting Strength and build my home gym! I know some of you are big on joining a gym, but gyms don't motivate me. In fact, they do the opposite. I don't like being around a bunch of other people working out in a gym; I prefer to do that alone. I've already proven to myself that I can follow an exercise routine, so right now it's all about getting educated and getting the proper equipment I need to begin the next stage of training to meet my goals
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Originally posted by: GenHoth
Oh, not you too...
Next topic: Equipment! Is there equipment that has safety features for working out solo at home? I've read about some benches that have racks on the side that prevent it from cutting your neck off if you drop the bar...anyone enlightened in this area?
Indeed, might want to start lifting before you lose all the fat.
If you are so bent on building your own gym, do extensive research, including in this forum. Set-ups for different kinds of lifting may require different equipment.
SS edition 1 has a section on building gym. It says you just need a good, expensive bar (do not skimp $ here) or two, power cage, and bench either for use with power cage or standalone bench with hooks for bar. The floor should be neatly tailored to the edges of the room/garage and be made out of layer of wood on concrete (I forget what kind), then horse rubber mats on top. Plates should be bumper plates so you can drop them on power cleans. Everything should have its place.
edit: power cage has safety bars (adjustable height) - use those to prevent bar from cutting off your head.
They also will help when you cannot get up with weight out of squat.
If you are so bent on building your own gym, do extensive research, including in this forum. Set-ups for different kinds of lifting may require different equipment.
SS edition 1 has a section on building gym. It says you just need a good, expensive bar (do not skimp $ here) or two, power cage, and bench either for use with power cage or standalone bench with hooks for bar. The floor should be neatly tailored to the edges of the room/garage and be made out of layer of wood on concrete (I forget what kind), then horse rubber mats on top. Plates should be bumper plates so you can drop them on power cleans. Everything should have its place.
edit: power cage has safety bars (adjustable height) - use those to prevent bar from cutting off your head.
They also will help when you cannot get up with weight out of squat.
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Ahh the only fat I'm losing is a gut and a double chin. My biceps are as skinny as my forearms, I won't be losing anything but a pudgy middle, haha.
I have mixed feelings about the approaches that people take to getting in shape. There are a lot of good arguments for only working out 3 days a week, being super-crazy-strict about your diet and calories and grams and stuff, and there are also a lot of good arguments for putting a lot of time into things and eating all the protein you can get your paws on. Like, a lot of people say to eat egg whites, but this guy, "Mountain Man", not only eats the yolks, but even eats the shell of the egg. And he's ridiculously strong-looking:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mielke40.htm
I'm wondering what the real-life correlation is between being uber-strict about your training and diet versus just simply attacking it as much as you can. The people who ignore the science and go all-out seem to have great results, despite what the sciency-people say. I think the root problem is that people stink at being consistent at their training schedule and diet plan, and talk big about routines and gains and whatnot on forums. I think a lot of it is hype and it all just boils down to doing it every day. If you had told me a year ago I could drop 50 pounds by eating 6 times a day, every day, and pedaling away on my exercise bike in front of the TV for 10 minutes a day, I would have laughed that idea off. But I did it and my weight is dropping like crazy, so I'm a believer is steady, consistent progress now.
Your thoughts?
You're right, dedication is the most important thing. Much of what we argue over are the most efficient methods or what works best for us. Benching solo is hard to be safe with. I'm having the same debate right now, but since the bar comes so low anyway I can't think of a way to bench w/o a spot. Guess I'm just going to ask some guy in my new gym. *shrug*
What makes you think you can't build a great physique using Starting Strength? Start lifting using a solid routine (Starting Strength) now and getting stronger now while losing fat. Your goals have more to do with your diet than your routine, as long as your routine is solid.
Here's me at the beginning of this year about midway through my cut after doing a very similar routine to SS, definitely not close to a "bodybuilding routine." Keep in mind I used to be a fat ass at 265 pounds as well. I didn't lift while losing fat the first time either and I regretted it.
http://img518.imageshack.us/im...799b9f6ada744e1lk2.jpg
Here's me at the beginning of this year about midway through my cut after doing a very similar routine to SS, definitely not close to a "bodybuilding routine." Keep in mind I used to be a fat ass at 265 pounds as well. I didn't lift while losing fat the first time either and I regretted it.
http://img518.imageshack.us/im...799b9f6ada744e1lk2.jpg
On SL 5x5 I've noticed (and friends) improvement in tone of legs (they were always big, now they look strong, calves quads and hams), tighter butt, smaller waistline (still fat since my diet is disgusting), defined upper abs, much bigger chest, cut shoulders and way bigger lats/traps. My upper body is wider than my gut now as well which it wasn't before. My arms, especially triceps are noticibly bigger and more defined when I flex, biceps and forearms too, and I haven't done a single isolation exercise since early March.
I don't look cut due to too much fat (that is up to me to fix with a proper diet hopefully soon) but I look waaaay better than before. How long have you been on the program?
Again, that's due to your diet. If the calories aren't there, you're not going to gain muscle mass. I actually saw the biggest gains when I was on Bill Starrs 5x5 (both strength and size gains), my diet was also pretty much spot on.
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That's exactly why I started this thread...the SS book isn't very clear about the actual outcomes of the routines aside from increased strength, haha. And having never owned so much as barbell before, I'm trying to learn everything I can!
Why did you regret not lifting while losing fat? Because you had to gain back the weight in muscle?
I did the same thing when I spent a couple months only running, and lost 40 pounds of muscle and fat. I had lots of loose skin and little muscle, and was not nearly as happy with my body as I would have been if I maintained the muscle.
I just realized I made a major mistake when I tried to go with the SL 5x5 program. I started the program with all of my sets being at my maximum weight instead of deloading. God I'm an idiot. .
As for the above comment, I am currently taking in approx 2000 to 2200 calories a day. Most of it is good clean food altough sometimes it's not. I did this purely for the weight loss while lifting. I have to admit I was a bit skeptical about the whole thing until I saw my body slimming down and I could see some muscle (just not a lot). I should retract my statement above as I was incorrect. In my eeys i have not gained much, but in my wife's eyes i have lost a lot and gained a lot of muscle.
Ultimately, I set a goal for myself of losing 35 lbs by apr 4 2009. My starting weight was 220. I have so far hit a low of 207.5 but consistently been around 209-210 for the past couple of weeks. I still have 25 pounds to go, but if I started upping my caloric intake, I probably won't reach that goal will I?
This could be a bit of an issue. If you start with too much weight on SS, it will be tougher to learn the proper form, your body may have a tougher time adapting to the massive stresses and you may stall out too early.
Unless you're massively obese or have crazy genetics, it typically takes a LONG time to see serious changes in your body, especially in terms of adding muscle. It's also just a fact of life that people don't notice changes in their own body nearly as much as others do. It's probably a result of you studying yourself closely every single day (and changes from day to day are extremely hard to notice) while others observe you much more sporadically.
Is there a reason for you getting to some particular weight? The reason I ask is that it sounds like you're going for a nice physique, in which case your goal should not be "get to weight XXX" but get to "body fat percentage XXX". If you are doing SS and are relatively new to the program, you may gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Your body weight will stay roughly the same, but your physique will improve tremendously.
After a while, losing fat and adding muscle at the same time gets very difficult and most people have better success with focusing on one or the other. If that's the case for you, then just alternate the two goals: for example, eat a caloric deficit for 8 weeks to cut fat and then switch to a caloric surplus for 8 weeks to bulk up. Keep alternating them until you reach your goals.
A couple of years ago, I was taking a TKD class two nights a week and surfing/playing basketball every saturday and sunday morning. I was able to get myself down to about 195 at my lowest. It was probably the best my legs/knees/ankles and feet had felt in a long time. I'm basically doing it for the health of my lower body. I've punished my legs for a long time, and now am really starting to feel the effects of the abuse. So to lighten the load would help tremendously. There is also the added benfit of my body looking leaner
Originally posted by: rasczak
A couple of years ago, I was taking a TKD class two nights a week and surfing/playing basketball every saturday and sunday morning. I was able to get myself down to about 195 at my lowest. It was probably the best my legs/knees/ankles and feet had felt in a long time. I'm basically doing it for the health of my lower body. I've punished my legs for a long time, and now am really starting to feel the effects of the abuse. So to lighten the load would help tremendously. There is also the added benfit of my body looking leaner
I definitely hear you. I bulked up to 223 earlier this year and even though I put on a lot of muscle & strength, the extra weight was a massive PITA. Every kind of exercise/movement took more effort, put more stress on my back & legs and just didn't feel right. I've now cut down to 198 and feel much better and, for lack of a better word, more "streamlined"
I only asked to make sure you realized that looking more lean does *not* simply mean being lighter. Being lean is a question of low body fat percentage and lots of lean body mass. You could drop to 180lbs and still look flabby if that weight loss included lots of muscle. However, as long as you stick with a good strength training program like SS and include plenty of protein in your diet, you'll be primarily losing body fat and should be just fine.
I wish more people understood this for everything it is worth. I still had plenty of body fat at 6'6 175lbs. Which, having learned my lesson the wrong way several years ago, is a weight I hope to never be again. Only thing I regret is not taking lots of pictures and having a journal for the last 8 years of my life. I'd probably have something someone could actually benefit from.
Weight wise, heaviest I ever reached was 235lbs and lightest was 175lbs. Within that spectrum, I've been around 200lbs for the past 4-5 years and yet within the last 2 years I've had several people actually come up to me and ask me how much weight I've lost. Telling them none, or at the most, 20lbs, they seem almost confused. I think that speaks leagues about the complete misconception some people have that a body can be made up of almost complete fat and almost complete muscle and most are a mix of both. If you are gaining muscle and losing fat you can almost maintain the same weight over a long period of time (the small gains and losses a long the way might be trackable but the end result is a similar weight).
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