What is the Point of Starting Strength by Rippetoe?

[skace]

Originally posted by: aphex
Was there a purpose to your post then? If you can't think of anything constructive to add, why piss all over the OP? It just ends up making you look like a douche and does nothing to help the OP, who is obviously reaching out for help.

Reaching out for help? Maybe it's just me but the original post seems overly argumentative and sarcastic. Like a person asking questions they already knew the answer to.

In fact I had a helpful response written but I started asking myself exactly the same question. What is the purpose of this post if no one wants to read 6 paragraphs, and if someone wants to read 6 paragraphs, they should just go read the wikipedia articles on strength training, hypertrophy, body building, anaerobic / aerobic exercise and they'd answer all these questions for them.

The purpose of my post was to vent and it worked, thanks.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: aphex
Was there a purpose to your post then? If you can't think of anything constructive to add, why piss all over the OP? It just ends up making you look like a douche and does nothing to help the OP, who is obviously reaching out for help.

Reaching out for help? Maybe it's just me but the original post seems overly argumentative and sarcastic. Like a person asking questions they already knew the answer to.

In fact I had a helpful response written but I started asking myself exactly the same question. What is the purpose of this post if no one wants to read 6 paragraphs, and if someone wants to read 6 paragraphs, they should just go read the wikipedia articles on strength training, hypertrophy, body building, anaerobic / aerobic exercise and they'd answer all these questions for them.

The purpose of my post was to vent and it worked, thanks.

Well to clear things up, it was in no way meant to be sarcastic or argumentative. I bolded the question because most people don't read an entire post and I wanted an answer to that specific question. It's funny that you say that, because obviously you didn't read my original post all the way through...I have the Wikipedia entry for Strength Training benefits linked right in it!

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I have zero experience with strength training and I didn't understand why you would pursue a Starting Strength routine instead of a separate routine focused on bodybuilding. Since I'm not interested in Powerlifting or Olympic lifting or any of those types of activities, I didn't understand why Starting Strength was such a big deal. Rippetoe's book doesn't exactly spell it out for you; it kind of assumes you already know the different types of training and just need help learning how to do proper strength training exercises. I would have been happy to read your "helpful reply" if you had posted it, the same as I have with the other helpful posts.

Have a little mercy on us newbs!

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Awesome post, A+! That's exactly the kind of response I was looking for, especially your bolded statement near the end:

It is my personal opinion that SS is so highly recommended on this forum because it is probably THE most effective routine for beginners regardless of what goal they are seeking.

Right now I am out-of-shape and am working on losing weight so that I can start other forms of personal training without having to carry an extra 50+ pounds of blubber around. I've never been to a gym and the only exercise equipment I own are an exercise bike and an elliptical machine. Personally, focused strength-training activities like Powerlifting and Olympic lifting don't appeal to me at all; I'd rather end up looking like Arnold than Andy Bolton if I had a choice. This is one of the reasons I created this thread - from reading Starting Strength it seemed like the natural progression of things was to get into lifting competitively or as a hobby, which I am not interested in at all.

I would, however, like to have an improved physique instead of being a blob. So from reading the replies to this thread, it seems like following Starting Strength initially and then progressing into a body building routine seems like the way to go for that. That's exactly the kind of advice and information I was looking for - thank you!

glad I could help. it sounds like you are getting on the right track now, but just in case:

1. I'm am guessing that your primarily goal is to lose *fat*. This is the necessary first step before you can worry about any kind of toned-physique (in fact, toning is nothing more than just lowering body fat percentage). It's important to distinguish fat loss from weight loss, as you could easily just lose weight with careful dieting, but that way, you often lose fat AND muscle. Losing muscle is unhealthy and should be avoided.

2. Assuming #1 is accurate, the first priority is to settle your diet. Check out the sticky at the top of this forum for more details. The basics include using a site like fitday.com to track what you eat and arrange a meal plan that gradually drops your caloric intake below maintenance levels while keeping protein intake high. This takes some effort for the first couple weeks as you meticulously count calories and deal with eating less, but becomes habitual and easy afterwords.

3. Next, add strength training. This is the best way to maintain muscle mass during a caloric deficit (it also has a ton of other benefits mentioned in my first reply). In fact, as a beginner to weight training, this is one of the rare times in your life where you can add muscle/strength AND lose fat all at the same time. Eventually, you'll probably only be able to do one at a time (bulk or cut), but in the meantime, you should get on the most effective program you can. For beginners, as I've mentioned, Starting Strength is one of the best choices.

4. After a while, consider adding in cardio activities. This is a good idea to improve your conditioning and cardio (purely for health reasons) but it also allows you to burn more calories and thereby accelerate weight loss. However, be careful not to overdo it right away. As a newbie, doing SS 3 days a week will probably be all that your body can handle. After a couple months, however, you'll be more adapted and you can probably add a day or two of cardio during the off days. Something like HIIT can be a fantastic addition to your exercise routine.

5. Eventually, you'll hit a peak with SS - roughly speaking, it's when the linear progression prescribed in the book stops working for you, even after several resets. At this point, you can choose where you want to take your training. If you're still after the ideal physique at that point, a body building routine such as this one may be your best bet. Perhaps after doing SS for a while, you'll fall in love with power lifting or olympic lifting and pursue those. Or maybe you'll become interested in developing your fitness for some sport/activity, in which case Crossfit is a great choice. BTW, whichever you pick, make sure to tweak your diet accordingly.

Good luck!

 

[conorvansmack]

Starting Strength builds a foundation of strength that you can then apply to whatever your purposes are. It trains your muscles in exercises that are similar to ways in which your body moves (squat, deadlift, OH press) and it trains the muscle groups that naturally work together. It's favored in this forum over isolation exercises (bicep curls, flies, leg extensions, leg press, etc.) because those movements are not authentic to how the human body works. They are great for developing one specific muscle or muscle group, but not for overall strength. The human body is meant to work as a unit and SS advises training it as a unit.

You will not end up "Arnold-huge" by accident on any training program. That takes years of work. As you gain strength, you'll gain muscle mass and reduce fat, at least that's the ideal plan.

You seem willing to give it a try, which I give you credit for. If it turns out to not be your thing after a few months, try something else, like CrossFit.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: paulxcook
Benefits of SS for the average person:

- easy to follow
- you only work out 3 days a week, and the workouts go quick because they're based on efficient compound movements
- you get stronger all over, gain muscle all over, and lose fat if your diet is in check
- you build a good base of strength that you can transfer over to whatever program you decide to move on to later.

So is it fair to say that Starting Strength is a good foundation for future muscle-building activities, whether you want to pursue strength training, bodybuilding, etc.?

Yes. Bodybuilders tend to have large muscles that aren't as strong (I remember seeing a pic of Sam Byrd and some bodybuilder side by side, the bodybuilder's muscles are significantly bigger than Sam's but Sam is a hell of a lot stronger), but they still have to be strong. And as someone else mentioned, you won't trip over a barbell and accidentally become a tank. It takes plenty of hard work, so if you don't want to get "too big", don't worry, you won't. I honestly haven't read this entire thread so I'm not 100% sure what your goals are, but if you're new to weightlifting and want to get stronger, bigger muscles and a leaner body, then SS is a good way to get started.

You already bought the book, right? Just give it a try for a few months. I promise you the worst thing new lifters can do is overanalyze things. Just throw yourself into it and see what your results are in a few months.

 

[lucasorion]

As a man, it just feels good to be strong - we're hardwired for that. As long as we're walking around in these bodies, we can at least try to make them work the way they're supposed to work. I remember how good it felt when I was 19, spending a summer splitting logs (cue "Like a Rock" by Bob Seger), and it just felt so damn good to be able to power that maul through a big cherry log. And I also remember how my body felt like a prison, 5-6 years later, when I had spent a couple years sitting at a desk and not doing anything physical. I'm not interested in training for the looks, I want to be strong for the way it feels, 24/7.

 

[TecHNooB]

The way I see it, you should focus on strength first, size next. You don't want to get big repping light weight. You wanna get big repping heavy weight. So build towards that weight then go for reps once you're in the heavy weight category.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: lucasorion
As a man, it just feels good to be strong - we're hardwired for that. As long as we're walking around in these bodies, we can at least try to make them work the way they're supposed to work. I remember how good it felt when I was 19, spending a summer splitting logs (cue "Like a Rock" by Bob Seger), and it just felt so damn good to be able to power that maul through a big cherry log. And I also remember how my body felt like a prison, 5-6 years later, when I had spent a couple years sitting at a desk and not doing anything physical. I'm not interested in training for the looks, I want to be strong for the way it feels, 24/7.

Post of the day!

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: lucasorion
As a man, it just feels good to be strong - we're hardwired for that. As long as we're walking around in these bodies, we can at least try to make them work the way they're supposed to work. I remember how good it felt when I was 19, spending a summer splitting logs (cue "Like a Rock" by Bob Seger), and it just felt so damn good to be able to power that maul through a big cherry log. And I also remember how my body felt like a prison, 5-6 years later, when I had spent a couple years sitting at a desk and not doing anything physical. I'm not interested in training for the looks, I want to be strong for the way it feels, 24/7.

See, that's something I've never felt before. 8 months ago I discovered I'm allergic to dairy and my life, health-wise, has done a complete turn-around. My headaches, stomach pains, asthma, and a majority of other problems have disappeared completely. Right now I am focusing on losing fat and trying to figure out where to go after that. It looks like Starting Strength is the ticket.

If I wanted to pursue body building, where should I go after Starting Strength? And how long should I do starting strength for?

 

[MegaVovaN]

Do starting strength until you can squat 1.5x your bodyweight and deadlift 2x your bodyweight. Possibly longer, until your gains stall and you can no longer add weight even after a few "resets".

On way to 1.5x squat you WILL stall a few times. Just reset (deload) and crush that barrier.
And strength is awesome. Even in the gym, I now can easily do 5 bodyweight pullups and not feel tired. Just awesome throwing up myself as easy as if I were climbing a ladder.

As for BBing, maybe bodybuilding.com ?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Do starting strength until you can squat 1.5x your bodyweight and deadlift 2x your bodyweight. Possibly longer, until your gains stall and you can no longer add weight even after a few "resets".

On way to 1.5x squat you WILL stall a few times. Just reset (deload) and crush that barrier.
And strength is awesome. Even in the gym, I now can easily do 5 bodyweight pullups and not feel tired. Just awesome throwing up myself as easy as if I were climbing a ladder.

As for BBing, maybe bodybuilding.com ?

Okay, I'll keep reading and start saving up for some barbells and the other equipment. As far as physiques go, I like this guy's physique:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamerjay_interview.htm

Muscular, not too lean, but not ridiculously huge either. I need to learn what I need to do in order to achieve that physique goal. If you read his article and look at the pictures & videos, he was pretty huge in the past and brought it down to a more lean physique, so obviously setting goals towards a specific size works. I'd like to nail down a routine because I work best on a structured plan, something that I can follow even when I don't feel like it.

 

[MegaVovaN]

That guy is pretty damn buff and ripped. If you want to be like him, do SS for year or two to build base strength, then build size with bodybuilding routine and "cut" - reduce body fat %, then build again and cut again, until you reach the goal.

Do not buy barbells - join a gym that has them. Home gym is pretty expensive, good barbell alone is at least $150 (forget that $40 trash in Walmart). Good power cage is another $900+.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Home gym is pretty expensive

Yes it is!

In my experience, it's much easier to get serious and stay motivated in a real gym, because there's always someone closer to your ideal physique than you are. So even if you have the money for a great home gym setup, you should probably spring for a membership and use it for a while.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Home gym is pretty expensive

Yes it is!

In my experience, it's much easier to get serious and stay motivated in a real gym, because there's always someone closer to your ideal physique than you are. So even if you have the money for a great home gym setup, you should probably spring for a membership and use it for a while.

I just read the section on this in Arnold's bodybuilding encyclopedia. He makes a very good point!

 

[gramboh]

To look like that guy you are going to have to be uber strict on your diet for a long time (like micromanaging calories and macros).

The thing about training that I'm not sure you grasp yet, is you have to train "forever". You can't just do a weightlifting program like SS for a while and then stop because you aren't interested in lifting, you will lose all the gains. I was just a bit worried when I read something in one of your posts about not being interested in weight lifting/powerlifting/oly lifting etc. It makes it a lot easier/motivating to lift when you enjoy it and look forward to breaking your records etc. That is the main benefit to me of strength training over body building. Body building you just look in the mirror and decide if you are better than the last workout. Strength training/power/oly lifting, you know how much weight/reps you did last time, and you try to break it, it's a battle against yourself that is measurable.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: gramboh
To look like that guy you are going to have to be uber strict on your diet for a long time (like micromanaging calories and macros).

The thing about training that I'm not sure you grasp yet, is you have to train "forever". You can't just do a weightlifting program like SS for a while and then stop because you aren't interested in lifting, you will lose all the gains. I was just a bit worried when I read something in one of your posts about not being interested in weight lifting/powerlifting/oly lifting etc. It makes it a lot easier/motivating to lift when you enjoy it and look forward to breaking your records etc. That is the main benefit to me of strength training over body building. Body building you just look in the mirror and decide if you are better than the last workout. Strength training/power/oly lifting, you know how much weight/reps you did last time, and you try to break it, it's a battle against yourself that is measurable.

That makes sense - it's easier to do something when you're motivated about it. I wasn't interested much in bodybuilding before, but now that I'm dropping the pounds and feeling TONS better, I'm starting to think about other things I can pursue health-wise.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Home gym is pretty expensive

Yes it is!

In my experience.

What is your experience? You seem pretty opinionated, I hope you aren't one of these guys that just started working out a year ago and now considers himself an expert like many here.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
Home gym is pretty expensive

Yes it is!

In my experience.

What is your experience? You seem pretty opinionated, I hope you aren't one of these guys that just started working out a year ago and now considers himself an expert like many here.

That's fair.

I started lifting in high school at age 14 for PE class. I wrestled at 98 lbs that year and was interested in getting bigger and stronger (chicks don't dig 98 pound weaklings, don'cha know). I got my mom to pick up a weight set for me; it was of poor quality, with a 1-inch barbell. I used that on my own for two years and got bigger and stronger, but only in my upper body. The pastor of my church had taken an interest in bodybuilding when he was younger and had a number of books on the subject, which I read, and realized that neglecting my lower body was a bad thing. He showed me a number of exercises and got me to do squats, which meant that I had to buy a gym membership. When I got to college, I spent a lot of time in the gym, and started hanging out with HHP majors and powerlifters who knew their stuff but didn't do bodybuilding. I learned the value of incorporating still more exercises into my routine, and read the stuff they gave me on powerlifting and endurance training.

So, I've been lifting (not as consistently as I'd like, and I don't have a gym membership at the moment) for six and a half years, perhaps five of which have been respectable, and 3 of which have been actually competent.

As for my comment, it is based on the difference between lifting back home (in a town of 1300 people, where I was the strongest and best-looking in the gym most times I was there) and lifting at the university, where there are people who've been doing this for decades and have the muscularity to show it. It's easy to say "bah, I'll only do two sets, I don't feel up to a real burn" when the other guys in the gym are high school kids. It's hard to do that when the fellow on the next bench competes in pro events.

(edited because there was a sentence I couldn't parse in here)

 

[rasczak]

This question has been plaguing me since I started the program. I understand the need to get stronger, but this program doesn't really "shape" your body. I have noticed an incredible increase in strength, but I also wanted to see the "bodybuilding" physique, which I am not really getting. Hence why I have been fooling around and tinkering with different routines. I eventually made my way back to SS because i don't know enough to really focus on bodybuilding.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: rasczak
This question has been plaguing me since I started the program. I understand the need to get stronger, but this program doesn't really "shape" your body. I have noticed an incredible increase in strength, but I also wanted to see the "bodybuilding" physique, which I am not really getting. Hence why I have been fooling around and tinkering with different routines. I eventually made my way back to SS because i don't know enough to really focus on bodybuilding.

I've noticed some changes. My arms, traps, and chest are bigger. My legs are A LOT bigger and more defined, big enough that I've had to buy new boxers. But I'm very undisciplined with my diet so I don't see the definition I would like yet, especially upper body. I'm ok with that though because I don't feel strong enough to really have anything worth being aesthetically proud of.

Red, aren't you just kind of being a jerk? You've been lifting for years and you rarely, if ever, comment. People such as myself have learned a lot in the last year and aren't as frustrated with newbie questions, so why wouldn't we answer a lot of things that we recently learned ourselves? The same concept would apply to many other specialty forums on AT. If it wasn't for those people H&F would be a bunch of questions with 0 and 1 replies.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: rasczak
This question has been plaguing me since I started the program. I understand the need to get stronger, but this program doesn't really "shape" your body. I have noticed an incredible increase in strength, but I also wanted to see the "bodybuilding" physique, which I am not really getting. Hence why I have been fooling around and tinkering with different routines. I eventually made my way back to SS because i don't know enough to really focus on bodybuilding.

Yeah that's what I've been wondering...sure it'd be nice to be strong, but the physique looks a little more fun to pursue because you get visible results. A combination of the two would be ideal...

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: paulxcook
Red, aren't you just kind of being a jerk?

I didn't think so.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: rasczak
This question has been plaguing me since I started the program. I understand the need to get stronger, but this program doesn't really "shape" your body. I have noticed an incredible increase in strength, but I also wanted to see the "bodybuilding" physique, which I am not really getting. Hence why I have been fooling around and tinkering with different routines. I eventually made my way back to SS because i don't know enough to really focus on bodybuilding.

Yeah that's what I've been wondering...sure it'd be nice to be strong, but the physique looks a little more fun to pursue because you get visible results. A combination of the two would be ideal...

But the question is are you going to be strong enough to lift the way you need to lift in order to get the physique you want?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: rasczak
This question has been plaguing me since I started the program. I understand the need to get stronger, but this program doesn't really "shape" your body. I have noticed an incredible increase in strength, but I also wanted to see the "bodybuilding" physique, which I am not really getting. Hence why I have been fooling around and tinkering with different routines. I eventually made my way back to SS because i don't know enough to really focus on bodybuilding.

Yeah that's what I've been wondering...sure it'd be nice to be strong, but the physique looks a little more fun to pursue because you get visible results. A combination of the two would be ideal...

But the question is are you going to be strong enough to lift the way you need to lift in order to get the physique you want?

i would just keep doing it until you have a firm grasp on what it has done for you and how to lift properly, and then change it up. the key is to just do stuff properly and keep it up.

i do nothing special or extraordinary when I workout or in my routine, but I have people asking me weekly what I do (especially for my shoulders) to get the build that I have. I tell them I do nothing special, just each muscle group once a week and thats it. i've had a few people at my gym over hte past year ask me if i have taken steroids even. i'm not really that cut or ripped up but i've put on a lot of size.

even people at my job think all i do is spend every moment outside of work lifting weights, when in actuallity its like 4 hours a week i spend in a gym.

listen, the SS program is good, especially for beginners, but the problem on these forums is once someone mentions another type of routine, they get ripped apart by the SS followers and believers because they act as though that's the only thing that works.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: Kaido
So...to bulk up and improve my physique, just go ahead and follow Starting Strength?

That or a bodybuilding routine.

Or train for endurance sports. I do weightlifting and core work 3 times a week each, but I also swim, ride a bike, and run my ass off. It's the best of both worlds and, AND I get to eat more good food. Sometimes more than I want to eat.