What is so wrong with rap music? Who are you to judge it?

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Outkast is one of the few exceptions, they are one of the better 'popular' acts around right now.

You've got to be kidding! Their Hey Ya song is so bad that it's laughable. It proves that if you tell a huge lie often enough (Outkast is good) people will actually start believing it.

So what makes the song so horrible in your opinion? And what songs would you recommend to people in it's place? I am all for people have their own opinions, tastes, likes, and dislikes but it seems that if something does not fit into the "Red Dawn Certified List of Acceptance" then it's labeled as bad, instead of just different. I think it's pretty audacious for you to say that "Hey Ya" and Outkast as a group, which have both gotten very high critical acclaim, as bad.

 

[Thoreau]

Outkast is teh suxor.

 

[CT2TXtech]

Big Ups to Angry Pirate whos seems to be a rap music fan and is defending it.

 

[busmaster11]

The criminals who died on the cross next to Jesus's both repented and acknowledged that Jesus died a sinless man, unlike they - and both pledged to put their faith in Him.

Thank you for proclaiming Your ignorance.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Outkast is one of the few exceptions, they are one of the better 'popular' acts around right now.

You've got to be kidding! Their Hey Ya song is so bad that it's laughable. It proves that if you tell a huge lie often enough (Outkast is good) people will actually start believing it.

So what makes the song so horrible in your opinion?

It's not very creative, there is no hook, the musicianship is remedial, the vocals are of key ,and so many other things. I've heard Garage Bands from High Schools that sounded better

And what songs would you recommend to people in it's place?

If they like R&B that is actually great and creative any Stevie Wonder music should do!

I am all for people have their own opinions, tastes, likes, and dislikes but it seems that if something does not fit into the "Red Dawn Certified List of Acceptance" then it's labeled as bad, instead of just different. I think it's pretty audacious for you to say that "Hey Ya" and Outkast as a group, which have both gotten very high critical acclaim, as bad.

I know, it makes you wonder low can the taste of some of these critics can go!

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: CT2TXtech
Big Ups to Angry Pirate whos seems to be a rap music fan and is defending it.

Big ups to me...hooray!

I am a fan of rap music but I don't feel the need to defend it. I like it and I don't need the approval of others to listen to it. I encourage everyone to listen to artists like Jurassic 5, Mos Def, Talib Kwali, Dilated Peoples, etc because I enjoy their work. The point I'm really trying to make is that just because you don't enjoy something, it doesn't mean it's bad. So many People have so much trouble accepting that even though they may not like something, that it still has good qualities and may require talent to create. Nothing pisses me off more to hear someone go off on such a rant about how much something sucks and then be able to back up their argument with no other reason than they just dont like it. Closemindedness is one of the biggest problems affecting our society as a whole.

All music requires talent. I lack this particular talent which is why I refrain from singing otside of the car and the shower as to not punish anyone else with my lack of skills.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: stormbv

Originally posted by: AngryPirate
I like rap music but its wrong to criticize people for criticizing the music. Its their opinion plain and simple, who cares of they dont like it?

Today I happened to be reading Anti-Semite and Jew by Sartre. I'm pretty sure it's relevant to racism in America today. Here's a morsel: This word opinion makes us stop and think. It is the word a hostess uses to bring to an end a discussion that threatens to become acrimonious. It suggests that all points of view are equal; it reassures us, for it gives an inoffensive appearance to ideas by reducing them to the level of tastes...In the name of democratic institutions, in the name of freedom of opinion, the anti-Semite asserts the right to preach the anti-Jewish crusade elsewhere.

I come from a long line of racists. Any hatred that I was taught will die with me. There's always another side to people, but it's just hidden behind a smile these days. "I don't mean to sound racist, but..."

We need to get on the same page here..at least respect the differences that exist between human beings. People are tried by the judge, jury, and executioner known as the court of public opinion. Why did a majority of white people think OJ should have fried, while a majority of black people thought he was innocent? I just don't understand what's so hard about having a little empathy...I can respect anyone else's point of view, because they all fall into the realm of Human Experience and I can relate. But I can't hold my tongue when I see opinions that obviously come from some fear or insecurity.

Not to completely turn this thread a whole new direction but I dont see a parallel in your two examples. Someone not liking rap music is not the same as them proclaiming to hate blacks. I dont like screaming death metal bands, what ethnicity do I loathe?

Your comments inspire me to form the opinion that you are the type of person who tries to bring race to the forefront of every topic. To me this does more to fan the flames of racism than anything else. Any ethnicity that has a history of being oppressed is sure to have some sort of chip on their shoulder. While greatly reduced in it's intensity, racism is of course still alive and well today. I couldnt give you specific examples being white, but I'm not blind. I think this was a major cause of the split opinion on OJ's case. To me the evidence was overwhelmingly against him, but all of a sudden you have an officer on the case who drops the N-word and OJ is on trial purely because of racism? Please. The defense was faced with such an uphill battle in their case that when Mark Fuhrman came into the picture, they emphasized this point so much that it frenzied the massses. Now instead of a wealthy, former athlete who appears to have murdered two people. You have a black man who is accused of killing two white people and was targeted by the racist LAPD. That is why you see such a disparity in the opinion of whites and blacks on the issue.

Simply not liking a musical taste again does NOT equal racism towards a certain group. Is every black person in America required to listen to Hip-Hop in order not to be labeled as a Uncle Tom? Should I go buy country music albums because I'm white, and if I dont listen to "white music" I hate my own people? Find a new cause...

Thank you for bringing a measure of common sense to this thread, AP, but I'm afraid some people can't handle it... For them, the concept of associating rap or heavy metal with a certain identity is so deeply intertwined that to suggest that you in fact can dislike either or both for the apparent lack of talent or skill or education required to develop it - well, is fearful to them...

Personally, I find both styles of music detestable and uncivilized, and associated exclusively with rebeling teenagers and those who never grew up mentally past that stage.

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Outkast is one of the few exceptions, they are one of the better 'popular' acts around right now.

You've got to be kidding! Their Hey Ya song is so bad that it's laughable. It proves that if you tell a huge lie often enough (Outkast is good) people will actually start believing it.

So what makes the song so horrible in your opinion?

It's not very creative, there is no hook, the musicianship is remedial, the vocals are of key ,and so many other things. I've heard Garage Bands from High Schools that sounded better

And what songs would you recommend to people in it's place?

If they like R&B that is actually great and creative any Stevie Wonder music should do!

I am all for people have their own opinions, tastes, likes, and dislikes but it seems that if something does not fit into the "Red Dawn Certified List of Acceptance" then it's labeled as bad, instead of just different. I think it's pretty audacious for you to say that "Hey Ya" and Outkast as a group, which have both gotten very high critical acclaim, as bad.

I know, it makes you wonder low can the taste of some of these critics can go!

But then of course, the one thing I can always respect about Red, is that he does stick to his opinions in the face of adversity, a trait too often lacking with most of the world.

<Typical jackass>

Person 1: "Wow, I like this so much it's the best!"

Person 2: "That sucks, you shouldn't like that"

Person 1: "You're right, what was I thinking? What do you like?"

</Typical Jackass>

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
[they like R&B that is actually great and creative any Stevie Wonder music should do!

I will agree with you there. I listen to "Songs in the Key of Life" at least a couple times a week. Stevie rules.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Outkast is one of the few exceptions, they are one of the better 'popular' acts around right now.

You've got to be kidding! Their Hey Ya song is so bad that it's laughable. It proves that if you tell a huge lie often enough (Outkast is good) people will actually start believing it.

So what makes the song so horrible in your opinion?

It's not very creative, there is no hook, the musicianship is remedial, the vocals are of key ,and so many other things. I've heard Garage Bands from High Schools that sounded better

And what songs would you recommend to people in it's place?

If they like R&B that is actually great and creative any Stevie Wonder music should do!

I am all for people have their own opinions, tastes, likes, and dislikes but it seems that if something does not fit into the "Red Dawn Certified List of Acceptance" then it's labeled as bad, instead of just different. I think it's pretty audacious for you to say that "Hey Ya" and Outkast as a group, which have both gotten very high critical acclaim, as bad.

I know, it makes you wonder low can the taste of some of these critics can go!

But then of course, the one thing I can always respect about Red, is that he does stick to his opinions in the face of adversity, a trait too often lacking with most of the world.

<Typical jackass>

Person 1: "Wow, I like this so much it's the best!"

Person 2: "That sucks, you shouldn't like that"

Person 1: "You're right, what was I thinking? What do you like?"

</Typical Jackass>

What adversity? It's just my opinion. I'm sure that many don't agree with it and as long as I don't have to listen to it against my will it's all cool!

 

[CT2TXtech]

All music requires talent. I lack this particular talent which is why I refrain from singing otside of the car and the shower as to not punish anyone else with my lack of skills.[/quote]



Yes, many on here say that rap is talentless. But thats bullsh!t. They may not like the beat or the subject matter, but they do have talent. They couldnt do it. I wish I could. I wouldnt be sitting here in a cubicle.
Id like to see them put a book of rhymes together, find a producer, etc..... and sell millions. Theres some talent in all that. OK, maybe not as much as ALicia Keys, but still talent

 

[Regs]

Tupac was assassinated....

He was one of the the best, but he does not belong next to JFK, MLK, or Jesus.

 

[FuZoR]

who are you to judge people who dont like rap

stfu

 

[Amused]

What is so wrong with tobacco advertising? Who are you to judge it?

You may ask, "Why is Amused saying this?"

Tobacco advertising was largely banned and tobacco use in movies demonized because it is believed that tobacco advertising influences kids to smoke.

Yet, the very same people who will vigorously defend this concept, will vigorously deny that violence and sex in music and movies has any influence on kids whatsoever.

The hypocrisy is simply amazing.

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: Amused
What is so wrong with tobacco advertising? Who are you to judge it?

You may ask, "Why is Amused saying this?"

Tobacco advertising was largely banned and tobacco use in movies demonized because it is believed that tobacco advertising influences kids to smoke.

Yet, the very same people who will vigorously defend this concept, will vigorously deny that violence and sex in music and movies has any influence on kids whatsoever.

The hypocrisy is simply amazing.

Meh. If your kids are seriously influenced by what they see on TV, then you have done a poor job raising your children.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: NeoV
my real problem with rap is this - people with very little talent (some, not all) can be successful in it.....


For those of you that see some sort of 'higher vision' for Tupac, I have news for you....he was a piece of garbage, and a prime example of what is wrong with the genre

Any people with little talent can be successful, and just as temporarily. The key to long-term success is not talent--it's business savvy.

Oh yeah, and fix your poll. You need the "The only artist on the radio I listen to who even makes music today is Dio, and that's stretching it (results)" option.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Amused
What is so wrong with tobacco advertising? Who are you to judge it?

You may ask, "Why is Amused saying this?"

Tobacco advertising was largely banned and tobacco use in movies demonized because it is believed that tobacco advertising influences kids to smoke.

Yet, the very same people who will vigorously defend this concept, will vigorously deny that violence and sex in music and movies has any influence on kids whatsoever.

The hypocrisy is simply amazing.

Meh. If your kids are seriously influenced by what they see on TV, then you have done a poor job raising your children.

That's precisely his point. Where do you think the tobacco ads are/were? He's saying that the same people who claimed that children were overly influenced by tobacco advertising are claiming that kids are not influenced by the music they hear and the videos they watch. If one influences children then logically the other must influence them as well. If one does not influence children then neither does the other.

ZV

 

[BlamoHammer]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: AngryPirate

Originally posted by: Amused
What is so wrong with tobacco advertising? Who are you to judge it?

You may ask, "Why is Amused saying this?"

Tobacco advertising was largely banned and tobacco use in movies demonized because it is believed that tobacco advertising influences kids to smoke.

Yet, the very same people who will vigorously defend this concept, will vigorously deny that violence and sex in music and movies has any influence on kids whatsoever.

The hypocrisy is simply amazing.

Meh. If your kids are seriously influenced by what they see on TV, then you have done a poor job raising your children.

That's precisely his point. Where do you think the tobacco ads are/were? He's saying that the same people who claimed that children were overly influenced by tobacco advertising are claiming that kids are not influenced by the music they hear and the videos they watch. If one influences children then logically the other must influence them as well. If one does not influence children then neither does the other.

ZV

I agree with him, my sentiments didnt come through properly in my post. Carry on...

 

[LAUST]

"Fvck the police comin' stright from the underground" <---- "Turn that $h!t off.

 

[PanzerIV]

I've been listening to rap for 20 years so I think I am qualified to speak on this subject. First, if you don't like it then fine. I respect that. For those of you who are basing your opinions on what is played on the radio then you are missing out on a lot. Radio plays what they feel is best for the lowest common denominator and will make the biggest bucks. POSITIVITY and DEEP doesn't cut it. That is why you will rarely hear KRS ONE for instance being played. Heavens forbid they stray away from the bling bling, women, pimpin' and cars themes. So you are hearing one tiny segment of the hip hop world.
Again, if you don't like it one way or the other good for you I will still support it. Besides, country music disgusts me to no end and I avoid it at all costs so I can see how some just don't like one particular genre of music.

 

[DrPizza]

Actually I don't think people dislike Rap as much as they do the tools who try to potray it as some kind of musical genius. It's not musical genius, it's marketing genius and these rappers are laughing all the way to the bank .

I keep reading in this thread that a bunch of you rap fans (I listen to rap, but I hardly qualify it as intelligent... any kid in 7th grade could write the same lyrics.) [about the level of education of some of the rap artists - Heh!]

I challenge you to post the lyrics of a rap song that a reasonable person would consider as "deep" or "intelligent" or show great poetic ability.

(and for your reference: "I sleep in a bed, blood is red, guns make you dead, when you're shot in the head, that's all I'm said" is NOT good poetic ability (oooohhh! look, he rhymed 5 words together!)

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Funny how the argument is "oh you have to listen to (unheard of band name) instead, they're way better". If they're "way better" why aren't they the ones on the radio and MTV? Oh, right - because lots of people like the "Bling Bling Thug Lyfe I Shoot Cops And Rape Women" rap.

When it boils down, the ghetto rap is just more popular.

But I agree that rap went downhill in the 90s.

- M4H

 

[NeoV]

Panzer - why is it that you and other rap 'defenders' can only point to non-popular rap artists as proof that there are talented rap artists? Why are none of these talented artists popular?

There is a difference between musical talent and marketing talent - I'm guessing 50cent didn't come up with all of this crap on his own - I'd bet the record company found him more than the other way around...

Anyone can put together 'rhymes' that have meaning and actually rhyme, please give me a break in saying that is remotely difficult or evidence of talent.

 

[OutHouse]

because its not music. its nothing but rythumn and with no real talent behind it.

PS. Your poll sucks

 

[AMCRambler]

I like rap myself, but I can't abide by Outkast. I can't even consider him rap. He's too "Hey! Look at me! Look at me!". There was some kind of awards show on tv 2 weeks or so ago, and he comes out on stage wearing pink ski goggles, pink ski bibs and the most enormous retarded looking shoes I've ever seen. When I see that I know I'm not mistaken in thinking he stinks because he's obviously compensating for it with his flamboyance. He is the perversion of rap in it's most heinous. Now 50 Cent, Nelly and these other new comers may have changed the style of rap towards a more pop main stream culture, they don't make fools out of themselves on national television by dressing like an idiot. I used to like Outkast when I first heard his song Sorry Miss Jackson, it had depth, he was singing about a man being pushed out of his son's life due to divorce. Since then he's gone downhill imo.
Outkast complaints aside I think the new stuff we're seeing is kind of a blend of rap and pop. It's not the same as what Biggie, Big Pun, Tupac, and Dre used to put out. That's alright though. There's got to be change and the new stuff is pretty decent, for the most part. Nothing beats the original beats though.