What is more important right now.. whining about immigration or fighting BP

[Ldir]

Well Ldir, I re-read all of my comments in this thread 3 times now, and I cant for the life of me figure out how anyone could infer that I was soley blaming Democrats on the issue.

Care to point me to the post that gave you that impression?

Thanks

Different thread, "2/3 of the nation against Democrats on immigration"

 

[Sclamoz]

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Investigators-Edmonds-rape-suspect-deported-nine-times-94637479.html

I wonder what your attitude would be like if this happened to your mom/sister/etc. Would it be "whining" then?

F'n liberal twits...

According to the article he was deported 9 times. It sounds like the government did what it was supposed to.

 

[nick1985]

Different thread, "2/3 of the nation against Democrats on immigration"

The Democrats are in charge and 2/3 of the nation, according to polls, are against the way they are handling the Arizona bill.

Since I stated a fact, that means I dont feel Republicans dropped the ball on immigration when they were in charge? You have an interesting way of "thinking".

 

[nick1985]

According to the article he was deported 9 times. It sounds like the government did what it was supposed to.

Oh come on, is it REALLY this hard? Really? You dont get it?

Here, let me give you the answer:

The government did NOT do its job. The border is obviously not secure if someone came back 9 fucking times.

 

[Sclamoz]

Oh come on, is it REALLY this hard? Really? You dont get it?

Here, let me give you the answer:

The government did NOT do its job. The border is obviously not secure if someone came back 9 fucking times.

The border will never be secure enough to stop illegals from trying to cross, and if they are caught they will just try over and over and over until they get where they are going.

 

[Straightjacket]

Don't know if it's been pointed out. The Feds can't do anything about taking over cleanup.

Yes, it is a disaster that will harm everything about the gulf.

I also read from experts, while fines might be imposed, it's unlikely any of them will actually face any jail time.

I think both topics are extremely important.

While BP is destroying our southern coastline, the Illegals are destroying the rest of our once Great Nation.

Yay, Hussein and Napolitano!:thumbsdown:

 

[blackangst1]

I didn't say that. Wingnuts try to blame only Democrats for illegal immigration. Look at CADsortaGUY and Nick1985 comments for example. Republicans are to blame too. Many Republican businessmen love cheap illegal labor.

Employers are not to blame for illegal immigration. Some may say "If jobs didnt exist, they wouldnt come." I say bullshit. If they didnt come, the jobs wouldnt exist or go to those here legally. The problem is lack of border enforcement, and lack of willingness to deal strongly with those who make it. Should it be painful to those employers who are found to have employed illegals? Absolutely. But its a symptom.

And its not a D or R problem. Both are culpable.

 

[Ldir]

Employers are not to blame for illegal immigration. Some may say "If jobs didnt exist, they wouldnt come." I say bullshit. If they didnt come, the jobs wouldnt exist or go to those here legally. The problem is lack of border enforcement, and lack of willingness to deal strongly with those who make it. Should it be painful to those employers who are found to have employed illegals? Absolutely. But its a symptom.

And its not a D or R problem. Both are culpable.

Prohibition never works. If there is a demand people will find ways to fill it. Illegals come here to work. If we stopped hiring they would stop coming. It is that simple. Eliminate the demand and illegals stop filling it.

The lack of cheap labor would cause new problems but that is a different issue. I agree both parties are culpable.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Oh come on, is it REALLY this hard? Really? You dont get it?

Here, let me give you the answer:

The government did NOT do its job. The border is obviously not secure if someone came back 9 fucking times.

Psssttt. moron libs just don't/won't get it. They are hell bent on destroying this nation based on nothing more than their little feelings -reason and logic be damned

 

[blackangst1]

Prohibition never works. If there is a demand people will find ways to fill it. Illegals come here to work. If we stopped hiring they would stop coming. It is that simple. Eliminate the demand and illegals stop filling it.

The lack of cheap labor would cause new problems but that is a different issue. I agree both parties are culpable.

The argument can go both ways. Eliminate the cheap labor, and the hiring of illegals go away.

 

[nonlnear]

The argument can go both ways. Eliminate the cheap labor, and the hiring of illegals go away.

No, it can't go both ways. Well, not unless you really want a Korea style DMZ on the southern border, with the unending expense that would entail.

Nobody crosses a border illegally just because it's unsecured. They cross a border illegally because they have a powerful incentive to risk their life to get where they are going. Look at the Canadian border to see this simple truth in action.

 

[Ldir]

The argument can go both ways. Eliminate the cheap labor, and the hiring of illegals go away.

How'd that work during Prohibition? Have we won the war on drugs yet? You are backwards. As long as there is demand, people will find ways to fill it. The only way to stop illegal immigration is eliminating demand.

 

[dahunan]

Employers are not to blame for illegal immigration. Some may say "If jobs didnt exist, they wouldnt come." I say bullshit. If they didnt come, the jobs wouldnt exist or go to those here legally. The problem is lack of border enforcement, and lack of willingness to deal strongly with those who make it. Should it be painful to those employers who are found to have employed illegals? Absolutely. But its a symptom.

And its not a D or R problem. Both are culpable.

One of the best replies yet. Thank you.

Can we citizens also do more to somehow assist our "neighbors" in Mexico to fix their style of government so the people stop running to ours?

 

[dahunan]

No, it can't go both ways. Well, not unless you really want a Korea style DMZ on the southern border, with the unending expense that would entail.

Nobody crosses a border illegally just because it's unsecured. They cross a border illegally because they have a powerful incentive to risk their life to get where they are going. Look at the Canadian border to see this simple truth in action.

lmao.. I hope I caught the humor correctly

 

[BoberFett]

How'd that work during Prohibition? Have we won the war on drugs yet? You are backwards. As long as there is demand, people will find ways to fill it. The only way to stop illegal immigration is eliminating demand.

This is not only true, but the two are very tightly interwoven. We need to end the drug war and close the illegal job market down. Those two things would go a long way to reducing illegal immigration.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangst1
Employers are not to blame for illegal immigration. Some may say "If jobs didnt exist, they wouldnt come." I say bullshit. If they didnt come, the jobs wouldnt exist or go to those here legally. The problem is lack of border enforcement, and lack of willingness to deal strongly with those who make it. Should it be painful to those employers who are found to have employed illegals? Absolutely. But its a symptom.

And its not a D or R problem. Both are culpable.

One of the best replies yet. Thank you.

Can we citizens also do more to somehow assist our "neighbors" in Mexico to fix their style of government so the people stop running to ours?

and I say bullshit

If you lock up the Employers breaking the law hiring illegals watch how fast the illegals run back to their side of the border.

 

[nonlnear]

lmao.. I hope I caught the humor correctly

Well there are ways to see humor in it for sure, but whatever security issues there are with the Canadian border the simple fact is there is no mass migration across it.

 

[blackangst1]

No, it can't go both ways. Well, not unless you really want a Korea style DMZ on the southern border, with the unending expense that would entail.

Nobody crosses a border illegally just because it's unsecured. They cross a border illegally because they have a powerful incentive to risk their life to get where they are going. Look at the Canadian border to see this simple truth in action.

Sounds fine to me. As long as we have N Korea style of enforcement - a .223 to the head from a sniper. I dont have a problem with that at all. I guarantee if we get 50 or 60 stopped this way, they will think twice about crossing. Expecting employer participation is absolutely asinine. There is no way in hell we could even break the surface on employers who employ these guys. Its like busting a low level meth dealer.

The source of the problem is NOT employers. Its a porous border, and a sympathetic federal government.

 

[nonlnear]

The source of the problem is NOT employers. Its a porous border, and a sympathetic federal government.

A porous barrier is only a problem if there is osmotic (i.e. political and economic) pressure driving the migration process. It's not that only one of the two solutions will work. It's that truly securing the border and deporting everybody is orders of magnitude more expensive than reversing the incentives so that the illegals deport themselves.

 

[blackangst1]

A porous barrier is only a problem if there is osmotic (i.e. political and economic) pressure driving the migration process. It's not that only one of the two solutions will work. It's that truly securing the border and deporting everybody is orders of magnitude more expensive than reversing the incentives so that the illegals deport themselves.

Well, acknowledging that they crossing illegally is wrong in the first place would be a place to start. Followed by determination to follow laws already on the books. That costs nothing.

And enforcement of employers is also futile, as there are too many. There arent enough agents to investigate nor enforce. Like I said, it would be like putting away a low level meth dealer....no impact.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[Patranus]

What is more important right now.. whining about immigration or fighting BP

umm. Going to California to raise money for Barbra Boxer?

 

[nonlnear]

Well, acknowledging that they crossing illegally is wrong in the first place would be a place to start. Followed by determination to follow laws already on the books. That costs nothing.

I'm with you there. I'm not against enforcing border security, at least in so far as we are able to do so without dramatic investment in fixed infrastructure!

And enforcement of employers is also futile, as there are too many. There arent enough agents to investigate nor enforce. Like I said, it would be like putting away a low level meth dealer....no impact.

I suspect you are thinking rather conventionally. Imagine a world with robust ID standards. Either a federal ID used for verifying citizenship, or federal standards for state IDs used to do the same. In this world it would be a federal felony to present false ID for any purpose. Now imagine that world with a law prohibiting cash paid occasional labor for any regular business operations (i.e. everything to do with agriculture and construction, etc., but possibly allowing for quick temps to be hired for things like flood cleanup), and an expedited day laborer registration/verification system. Even ten years ago it might have been impractical, but today it's not unreasonable to roll out a system like this that could run on a smartphone to check IDs on site.

It is much easier to deport a person when they want to leave than when they want to stay. It's the difference between watching them drive themselves home, and funding paramilitary police operations to invade our own communities to hunt them down and inflict collateral social damage in the process. I don't know about you, but I for one would like to cut most of the military and roll back paramilitary domestic operations.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

70% of the American Public support Arizona and a majority want illegals deported. It's not the the public that needs convincing, it's the politicians.

The public still needs lots of convincing--until immigration becomes more decisive of an issue than abortion. Voters need to pin politicians down on their immigration positions and vote them in or out of office as appropriate.

 

[JSt0rm]

Quote:

you always fail at quotes. You need to visit technical forum issues until you understand. go >

 

[blackangst1]

you always fail.

Fixed for accuracy.