What if you never had to worry about rent or food?

[sm625]

There are so many problems with "basic income" that entire books, hell, entire libraries have been written on it. A core problem is the fact that the government cannot, and should not attempt to define what is a basic income, because such definitions vary over time and by region. So right off the bat you are attempting to enforce stagnation by attempting to define what is or isnt a basic income.

Another core problem is simply the fact that it doesnt help people. When you add up all the handouts given to inner city folks, their standard of living is far higher than almost any population at any point in history. They literally live like kings with their section 8, food stamps, WIC, cash assistance, SSI, SSDI, and obamaphones. But are they happy? Obviously not. Every metric related to contentment is clearly trending downwards. Welfare destroys the family. This has been shown to be true over and over again. Children growing up without fathers makes their life worse, and food stamps and phones cannot replace what is lost. Neither will free rent. Neither will any amount of handout. It is confounding that people just cannot wrap their head around this.

 

[BoberFett]

There comes a point where you will type "LOL, Democrats" again also.

Chances are it'll be after you say something stupid, so I give it about another 5 minutes before I have to post that again.

 

[BoberFett]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ettuce-day-increase-half-million-5-years.html

That's pretty incredible.

But no, the naysayers are right. Humans will always be required for that kind of work. It's impossible to automate.

 

[BoberFett]

Self-driving cars and trucks would require capital expenditures that no one is going to want to pay. :/

You're right, companies never invest in capital because labor is a vastly preferable expense. Clearly you're a titan of industry and we should all bow down to your business acumen.

Now excuse me while I go dictate a memo to my secretary and have her send it off the typing pool.

 

[OverVolt]

You're right, companies never invest in capital because labor is a vastly preferable expense. Clearly you're a titan of industry and we should all bow down to your business acumen.

Now excuse me while I go dictate a memo to my secretary and have her send it off the typing pool.

Oh I was just throwing him a bone with such a weakly worded post. Truck drivers will still be around in 20 years. You guys are caught up in futuristic hype just like we were going to have flying cars by the year 2000, so thought people in 1950. It was never intended for you to jump on it.

 

[JSt0rm]

there is a difference between 1950 pie in the sky thinking about flying cars and 2016 yes this is where the technology is headed. You should do some research before you loudly claim that all of your GED trucker brothers will have jobs in 20 years.

 

[Darwin333]

Far as I know, no corn had ever been grown there commercially, although sometimes near an abandoned homestead you'd find a bit growing wild. It's not good corn land for the most part, although he had one low patch which was very fertile; he leased that out for soybeans and occasionally for tobacco. Other than that all the land had been used to run either hogs or dairy cattle for the last few decades before he agreed to not grow corn on it. Most of it is thin and alkaline IIRC. I know my uncle was a dairy farmer and also ran hogs on his, and what I can remember (been near forty years) of the other, it was either fallow, or running cattle and/or hogs.

He also had to clear cut what he bought. Evidently corn does not not grow well in the shade.

Wait, so he wasn't growing corn in the first place and then the .gov payed him to continue not growing corn? Good for him but only our government lol...

 

[MrPickins]

I would do nothing. I make a lot of money, but that's mostly because if I have to work I'm going to make sure I get paid as much as possible for that time. If I could live without doing a lick of work, I would. I'm sure there are billions more like me.

Do you know what you call people who are taken care of while contributing nothing to society? Children. And there's a reason childhood ends.

So, what you're saying is the only reason you work is because you have to to live? That sounds awfully childish to me.

 

[BoberFett]

So, what you're saying is the only reason you work is because you have to to live? That sounds awfully childish to me.

Are you saying you'd rather work than spend time with friends and family? You sound like a pretty awful person.

 

[Darwin333]

Oh and GM and ford both see the writing on the wall and are moving into this space. Along with uber and google. The cost savings of removing humans from driving and the convenience to those of us who commute can not be ignored.

If/when we get to the point where all of our cars are automated the cost savings will be unimaginable. The end of traffic leading to drastically reduced commute times, infrastructure that we won't have to expand because of the huge increase in efficiency as well as not having to maintain that new infrastructure, being able to be productive while you commute and virtually zero traffic accidents alone will save untold dollars. As well as the small things that you already brought up like families only requiring a single vehicle. Heck you might be able to get away with sharing a vehicle with another family. Just having the ability to have the car go pick up the kids from practice while I keep working or doing whatever I was doing would be awesome.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Are you saying you'd rather work than spend time with friends and family? You sound like a pretty awful person.

As if you have friends and family. You reproduce by fission like all bacteria.

 

[JSt0rm]

gm and ford are both looking at becoming service companies in the future. They will make and maintain the fleet and we all just pay per drive. Think uber on a giant scale. Hell uber isnt dumb and they are also pushing for this same thing. It is a race at this point and Im sure the auto companies I havent mentioned are also pushing forward. Nobody will want to be caught as the only company who didn't make a autonomous vehicle. That would be a death sentence.

 

[BoberFett]

As if you have friends and family. You reproduce by fission like all bacteria.

You're confusing my family tree with the content of your mother's uterus.

 

[werepossum]

Wait, so he wasn't growing corn in the first place and then the .gov payed him to continue not growing corn? Good for him but only our government lol...

Yup. He went from dairy farming straight into not growing corn. And as he bought more land, he didn't raise even more corn - kind of like a protection racket, pay me or I'll grow corn. Pretty messed up when you can net more money not growing corn than producing milk. Although net might have been less too - he was elected county clerk or circuit clerk soon after that, so he didn't get all his income from not growing corn.

So, what you're saying is the only reason you work is because you have to to live? That sounds awfully childish to me.

Yeah, there's a name for people like him. They are called "everybody". They hold meetings most Saturday nights at local bars all around.

 

[JSt0rm]

You know the history on why they pay farmers not to grow corn right?

 

[HeXen]

You know the history on why they pay farmers not to grow corn right?

Screws up the soil's nutrients if you don't right..dust bowl?

 

[JSt0rm]

the dustbowl was a big part of people planting so much wheat. The wheat market crashed and the weather changed to create that hell as people stopped planting fields and the soil ended up in the air as it no longer had the great plains grasses holding it down.

The problem is leveling out boom/bust cycles for corn, soy and wheat. If you stabilize the supply then you stabilize the prices.

 

[werepossum]

You know the history on why they pay farmers not to grow corn right?

Yep. Well familiar with it.

Personally I tend to prefer the Carter system - we'll buy it at a heavily discounted rate, then give it away as aid. Lots of hungry people out there. Beyond that, people tend to not plant things that won't make them money, so I'm not sure such programs are even necessary any more with modern information systems. (Though I'm also not sure they are still around, except in greenbelt programs.)

 

[1prophet]

lmao. Are you kidding? 2 million x 70k is 140 billion (with a B) in payroll ONLY. Now add unemployment and health benefits? That is quite the drain on society by low skilled low iq workers. lol.

And now are you going to support them low IQ workers and give them free healthcare while removing their $140 billion buying power from the economy?

 

[JSt0rm]

And now are you going to support them low IQ workers and give them free healthcare while removing their $140 billion buying power from the economy?

You cant stop technology moving forward. Thats the point. At what point do we stop blaming people for not being able to work? This isnt here today with 6% unemployment but it is coming and coming soon.

Those people will lose but someone else will win. Thats capitalism.

 

[MrPickins]

Are you saying you'd rather work than spend time with friends and family? You sound like a pretty awful person.

You were the one who said this, were you not?

Do you know what you call people who are taken care of while contributing nothing to society? Children.

Right after you admitted that this is exactly what you'd do, given the chance.

So, are you childish or not?

And yes, I'd sometimes rather work than spend time with friends and family. I gain satisfaction and sense of self worth from accomplishing goals that benefit myself and society in general.

Yeah, there's a name for people like him. They are called "everybody". They hold meetings most Saturday nights at local bars all around.

Meh, I'd be bored as hell if I never accomplished anything productive. I might be working for myself , maybe even in a different industry, but I'd still be doing something...

 

[Spungo]

You're right, companies never invest in capital because labor is a vastly preferable expense. Clearly you're a titan of industry and we should all bow down to your business acumen.

Now excuse me while I go dictate a memo to my secretary and have her send it off the typing pool.

I can't wait for self driving cars. I'm out of town on business right now, my car is parked at the airport for a few days, and there is a cost associated with this. What if cars didn't need parking? What if you could drive to the airport then send your car home? It would be as easy as a cab, but it wouldn't cost $100-200 for 2 car rides. There wouldn't be $200 parking fees for long vacations. You couldn't need a designated driver when drinking because the car itself is sober all the time. Thousands of lives saved, billions of dollars saved.

I also like the idea of trucks driving themselves instead of being driven by a guy on crank who hasn't slept for 50 hours.

 

[JSt0rm]

Meh, I'd be bored as hell if I never accomplished anything productive. I might be working for myself , maybe even in a different industry, but I'd still be doing something...

Thats why we would focus on creative work and hobbys. Either for pay or just to do.

 

[flexy]

gm and ford are both looking at becoming service companies in the future. They will make and maintain the fleet and we all just pay per drive. Think uber on a giant scale. Hell uber isnt dumb and they are also pushing for this same thing. It is a race at this point and Im sure the auto companies I havent mentioned are also pushing forward. Nobody will want to be caught as the only company who didn't make a autonomous vehicle. That would be a death sentence.

Sorry OT, but I think you're right in what you say, I never saw it that way tho.

Recently I had "fantasies" that the entire postal and delivery services will in the future sure be replaced by drones (such as Amazon does in some tests, AFAIK) - but it wouldn't even require drones, autonomous vehicles would be all that's needed.

It would be HUGE if you realize how many goods/mail etc. is delivered by people (drivers), relying on schedules, delays etc. I am buying lots of stuff online and I am always pissed at the delays it takes from ordering until you HAVE the goods.

Now imagine that most/many companies have autonomous vehicles for delivering, this would also allow much more efficient scheduling than relying on drivers, eg. less delays etc.

I buy something from, say, a radius of maybe 100km away, company dispatches one of their tiny mini-autonomous vehicles, goods are in my house IN AN HOUR. That would be awesome!

It would revolutionize the way we shop, our slowass mail system and so much more. Mail currently comes ONCE a day (why??), be it postal mail service or whatever carrier, usually they have a tour and don't go twice to the same location on a give day. If a company has a fleet of vehicles they can send out for delivery 24/7, no pickup schedules, no tours etc., no drivers who need rest/sleep..awesome. I am sure "in the future" there will also be services such as "pickup and delivery" by companies who operate fleets of AVs. Companies would rent their services, so they don't actually have to *own* AVs. They just call-up a vehicle from the service, vehicle goes to company, picks up stuff, then goes to customer etc.

So yes, I do not think that "driver" is a profession that has much of a future

 

[JSt0rm]

We are on the edge of the largest tech advancement of our lifetimes. Its pretty fucking cool but it will be very disruptive for a lot of people.